Shark Aquarium Car 6-19868 Questions About Backlight

FWIW I went through this scenario.

At that time- North Lima Trainworks was still in business and I bought 10 of those panels and NONE worked.

I tried them with EL backlight drivers and different voltages- none worked- they are just all bad panels.

10 for 10 bad, well and one original failed. so 11 bad.

Sorry to say, this implies there is a high failure rate (100%) or manufacturing defect- and North Lima sold the panels after I warned them of 100% failure rate- and now you bought them years later- same problem.

Same here. I have a couple of old ones and they never worked from day one. Years ago Mike Reagen was visiting me in Co. at the shop I was at and one of the things we messed around with was said panel. He had no luck either. What ever chemical used in the process to make the screens had 'aged out' so it is likey that none of the Shark cars still work. It was a one-off and Lionel never made that style of car again. Maybe some day Miller Engineering could make reproductions. but on second thought there probably not be the demand to warrant production.

Well…that was depressing! But pretty much the same conclusion I had come to. I should let Trainz know since that’s where these came from. And as Vernon implied, they were undoubtedly from North Lima’s stash. Thanks to both of you for replying.

George

Were these the shark cars that were equipped with TMCC?   (And maybe had sound effects?)

Lionel still shows the screens available for 24.00. You could ask them to pre-check it before sending it! Yes the shark aquarium car had sounds and TMCC. It played the theme from Jaws (just kidding!) It's been awhile since I heard it, Geo might be able better to describe it.

Chuck, not sure what you saw, but Lionel shows me this: cs-6109868010-p PRINTED SCREEN / TMCC SHARK AQUARIUM CAR $7.00 UNAVAILABLE

GEORGE

@RadioRon posted:

Were these the shark cars that were equipped with TMCC?   (And maybe had sound effects?)

Ron, they had TMCC and it was equipped with Odyssey to control the speed of the sharks swimming around in their tanks. The sound is RailSounds 4, and it makes a lot of watery, splashy sounds with short bursts of shrieks and munching sounds (at least to my ears!) It’s cool but not something you could listen to for hours, it’s sort of a “ impress your guests “ kind of car.

George

This is what I found

Ok, I know this one.  I believe it had a special "box" hanging from its belly to hold all the added tech stuff.   I saw one run & it was nice, but its really sad how you can's count on this stuff holding up.  My favorite Lionel operating car of the last 20 years, the operating "snow blower" car has been rendered inoperable because some parts have failed & aren't available from Lionel. 

There are apparently two different screens. The connection tabs are in different places, but I'm sure you can work around that. Maybe this is an improved screen.

@RadioRon posted:

Ok, I know this one.  I believe it had a special "box" hanging from its belly to hold all the added tech stuff.   I saw one run & it was nice, but its really sad how you can's count on this stuff holding up.  My favorite Lionel operating car of the last 20 years, the operating "snow blower" car has been rendered inoperable because some parts have failed & aren't available from Lionel. 

Mmmm, never really noticed, but you're right about the big black underbelly Pretty much looks like any other Aquarium car except for that - and the black paint - and the sharks. What's really nuts about it is the amount of electronics they stuffed into it just to be an aquarium car with sound and variable shark speed

George

@Chuck Sartor posted:

This is what I found

And this is what I found

So I would agree, there are likely two or more different screens. About a year or so back, I ran into a discussion on OGR about these same screens. Comments were made to the effect that the backlight screen in the Shark car wasn't the same backlight used in (a different) car. Can't recall what the other car was though.

What part number did you look up to get your list? The car I have is 6-19868 Shark Aquarium.

George

I typed in 'Aquarium' car and around the last page it had a breakdown of the TMCC car. Quite a difference in price. The backgrounds are similar, but not the same. It has 4 sets of contacts on the bottom instead of 2 at the top. Better power distribution? I know you are a cleaver guy and could probably find a way to fit and wire it in if you wanted it to work, that is if the screens even still work!

@Chuck Sartor posted:

I typed in 'Aquarium' car and around the last page it had a breakdown of the TMCC car. Quite a difference in price. The backgrounds are similar, but not the same. It has 4 sets of contacts on the bottom instead of 2 at the top. Better power distribution? I know you are a cleaver guy and could probably find a way to fit and wire it in if you wanted it to work, that is if the screens even still work!

I found the exact same car you found and despite the price, called Lionel and ordered the EL panel for that car. I did ask if any of their tech types could test it first and got a very surprised response with a “not happening” response, but at least I can return it within 30 days if it doesn’t work. If it does work, then the fun begins😳

I have the Shark TMCC car which has been sitting on the shelf for a while now. I have 1 or 2 extra light panels as the one in the car still illuminates.
Still, a fun car to bring to shows. Neil Young did the music and I believe Pegi Young did the screaming about a shark attack.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

I have the Shark TMCC car which has been sitting on the shelf for a while now. I have 1 or 2 extra light panels as the one in the car still illuminates.
Still, a fun car to bring to shows. Neil Young did the music and I believe Pegi Young did the screaming about a shark attack.

Ted, thanks for sharing that info, kind of makes the car a wee bit more likable IMHO I've enjoyed Neil Young's music for years.

Your extra EL panels may have suffered the same fate as all the others. Mine arrived in mint condition, no traces of solder on the solder tabs, so quite confident they were brand new. Their problem appears to be age related. I suspect whatever chemicals/materials were used in their construction may have become brittle over the years. When I first got this car, only very small areas around the edges and more so near the connectors were actually lighting up. Despite my best efforts to be very careful with the panel while disassembling the car, it appears that activity may have been the final straw for the aging panel. When I reapplied power after disassembly, the lights were no more.

Well, we shall see if I can wire a different panel in there, but it will need to pass the initial power up test before I start doing any mods to make things fit.

George

There's a company called Ellumiglow that sells a variety of these panels. While none of them match the shark car something might be worked out. Also has information on how these work and what can go wrong with them.

Thanks Scotie, I checked out a bunch of different manufacturers on Amazon and went to their advertiser's websites to poke around. Seems like the cheapest piece(s) that would do the job will end up around the $40 mark or so, and will require cutting. Some panels can be safely cut while others will likely be damaged. Heck, the ones that say they can be cut even show them being cut underwater, a real no-no for the original style. If I can't make a different panel from Lionel work, I'll likely just call it quits for now, other projects await.

George

This is the sister car to the Shark Car.  The Whale Car.  So far my panels are good.

@MartyE posted:

This is the sister car to the Shark Car.  The Whale Car.  So far my panels are good.

Hi Marty, your cars appear to be nicely lit. I really don't know why some panels seem to give so much trouble, while others, like yours, are working just fine. I just asked Lionel to process a return on these, as they were DOA. We'll see how that goes.

George

George,

I got my shark car panels about 25 years when Mike Braga was in charge of service/parts for Lionel. I used the car often at our TMCC demos for Lionel. He had them and sent them as backup supplies. You really got me wondering if I should see if they still actually work.
The shark is quite unique and a load of fun to run at train shows.  

Was able to get a schematic and went on a quest for the EL panel driver IC. Found them in England but they were the larger size of surface mount devices. Wondering if blue or white LEDs could be fitted in.
Lou N

@Lou N posted:

Was able to get a schematic and went on a quest for the EL panel driver IC. Found them in England but they were the larger size of surface mount devices. Wondering if blue or white LEDs could be fitted in.
Lou N

Lou, it might be possible to squeeze some SMD LEDs in there, but it would be a serious challenge!! Also, it would be difficult to get the evenness of lighting that the EL panels provide. Where on earth did you manage to find a schematic?

BYW, Lionel was good to their word, I got a full refund on the DOA panels I returned. Thanks Lionel!

George

My guess why some panels work and some don't, like whale car vs. shark car is who Lionel used as a supplier for the screens. Possible some of the cars were made in Korea and others made in China.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

My guess why some panels work and some don't, like whale car vs. shark car is who Lionel used as a supplier for the screens. Possible some of the cars were made in Korea and others made in China.

Chuck, I am most inclined to believe you're correct. I received the "whale car" EL Panel and just jumpered it into the circuit of my car, and voila! Works fine. Taking a closer look, there's some major differences between the two. First off, it appears the backside of the whale strip is sealed differently than the shark strip, more of a clear, shiny vinyl or plastic appearance. Since moisture seems to be the mortal enemy of this type of device, that might explain why this one works right out of the box.

Looking below, you can see the height and width are different, the width of the whale strip being about 3/4" shorter, so that will likely leave a visible gap.

Also, numerous cutouts exist along the edge of the whale strip, where the shark car is pretty much a straight line. The shark car has mounting tabs, where the whale has none.

View of cutouts

Very importantly, the whale strip's connection points are different. The first pic is of the left side power tabs, They are staked into the front layer of the panel. Both stakes are basically shorted together at this point allowing better conduction of the magic juice.

Left side power tabs

The same thing occurs on the right side power strip connections, except they are staked into a conductive piece of tape that hooks them directly to the rear side of the panel.

Right side power tabs

Finally, the two pairs of connections on the other edge of the panel - they do absolutely nothing. All connections on this side are staked into one of the plastic non-conductive layers. Why bother putting them in at all? Dunno.

Right side non-conductive tabsLeft side non-conductive tabs

So the panel worked fine with just one set of wires jumpered to the connection points, but I will run all 4 wires to the power tabs just to provide any conductivity benefit.

In the shark car, the whale strip will not fit under the circuit boards, so wrapping the two sides upward to make the electrical contacts available on top the way the shark was designed, really won't work. I'll have to put the folded middle section on top, then make electrical connections on the bottom edges, with some very careful insulation. I'll let you know how that goes!

George

@MartyE posted:

This is the sister car to the Shark Car.  The Whale Car.  So far my panels are good.

its so bad its great........LMAO