So What Visionline Big Boy Road # Are You Getting?

Exactly.

I don't know if some you have seen the latest vid posted up by Mike Reagan & the folks from Lionel. I love the whistle. I hope I can get this post to work. I know I'm getting off subject here but then again I always did suffer from a little A.D.D. 

I posted this about 6 weeks ago.  I swore that anyone paying north of $2K (speculated price) for one engine should have their head examined.  I still feel that way.  After thinking I'd never buy one, I've decided to get it. Why did I change my mind?  My first Vision Line engine arrived.  Then a second one shortly thereafter.  I just worked a deal on a third one.  I am blown away by the VL Challengers.  

Then a video popped up on youtube of the VL Big Boy-that sound cut through my soul!  I am excited to get the VL Big Boy and all the enjoyment it'll bring.

It won't be #4006 or #4012 (bought a JLC one unexpectedly-thanks for the great deal Mark!).  Not going with 4014 either.  I got one in mind, but not sure yet.  Every UP Steam fan needs at least 3 Big Boys  !!!

I wish I knew if the VL Big Boys will be 'early' or 'late' models...that'll make my decision.

Will also need to save some coin in case Lionel makes more PFE Reefers to go with it.  

2014 is going to be a great year- 4014 restoration progress, a VL Big Boy and start my layout.  Stay tuned!

Never say never..........in a moment of weakness, i ordered the 4012,  WTH......I have a year to figure out how I will pay for it!

Pete

"Let your money bring you happiness!"

Maybe I lucked out, but the VL Challengers I've bought are fantastic with no issues. They're all used, 2 with prior run time and one never ran.

I am not saying the VL BB may never have issues, but I am willing to accept it.  So far the VL Challengers are the best locomotives I've owned.  And, just saying, if it is a smoother than my H-7 or FEF, I'll be glad I bought it.  

Guess we'll see!  

Got to make a decision soon on my cab number.  Very excited about this engine.

If I decide to get one, it will be 4006 - the Big Boy in the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis.

Alex

It's still a toss up between 4004 and 4018.  I've never seen one on the flesh, but both those locos are in states that are dear to me.

Are they offering the early version with the cooling coils on the front deck or the later version without them on the front deck?

Steve

Now THAT is the 64 thousand dollar question!

WHOA!

You mean to tell me that they have announced this model without letting the prospective buyers know what version they will produce?  That's absolutely crazy!  Why would anyone put down a deposit without knowing that?

The "sample" that Lionel has shown at York, plus videoed for "marketing" purposes, has indeed been the "later" modernized version of the first five 4000 class locomotives, i.e. 4000 thru 4019. However, I have not seen anything concrete that states that the models will ALL be the "later, modernized" versions.

One presumes that it'll be the one that they had at York and is in the Youtube video.

Obviously the catalog should clear up the version question.  Another reason to wait for it before ordering.

They will all have the cooling coils.

Well BUMMER!!!!   That appearance would NOT represent how all those 4000s look in parks & museums today. The UP up-graded/modernized all the early 4000s by eliminating those cooling coils, by 1948.

I'm not a Big Boy expert but to my eyes the major difference between the 2 versions are the cooling coils on the front deck. Can someone who is in the know tell us if it is possible for Lionel to market the later version of this engine with separate packaging that would include the cooling coils so one could apply that detail to backdate and personalize  their own model?  That is, to make it possible to add or remove the cooling coils easily.

Steve

I much prefer the modern version!  This will definitely affect my purchase decision!

I ordered 4014, couldn't help myself. Now i have to figure out how i will pay for it. Some how i will.

Kudos to you all!  Being Lionel I'm pleasantly surprised that anyone noticed or cared about that level of detail.

Having said that it does seem a bit strange to me that they are doing the later locomotive with the earlier coal tender.  Did the UP have the later coils and the coal tender at the same time?  I'm Big Boy and steam in general clueless.

OK, what is the "earlier coal tender" you refer to?  After the success of the second order of five 4000s (4020 thru 4024), without those exposed cooling coils, all the original twenty 4000s had their front pilot deck equipment modified and up-graded to match the newer style locomotives.  By 1948, all the 4000s looked virtually alike, except for some very obscure details.

As far as I am aware, the tenders were all the same, and the raised coal bords were added after delivery also.

The Big Boys were only ever coal burners.  Once restored, #4014 with be the 1st ever oil burner.

As for the coil or no coil, I personally don't care.  It's a Big Boy and I love Big Boys, no matter the era.

The 4005 was tested as an oil burner but converted back to coal.

Thank you.  Learned something new.

Sorry to say but, all you actually learned was that "sinclair" really doesn't know what he's talking about. As John Meixel just posted, #4005 was converted to Bunker C fuel burning and tested at some length as an "oil burner". Apparently the UP was trying to prepare for an impending coal miner strike, and were trying to "hedge their bet", so to speak. Hafter some initial firebox issues, the conversion to Bunker C began to workout pretty well. The downfall of the whole test was, unlike a 3900 class Challenger, the 4005 used SO MUCH fuel, she simply could not make it all the way up Sherman Hill westbound, with a full rated tonnage train. 

The coal burning 4000s and 3900s could stop for coal near the top, but there was no steam heating plant for the thick Bunker C fuel, and UP was NOT about to invest in THAT physical plant facility, for just 25 locomotives, had the othe 4000s been converted to Bunker C.

Was hoping for a "modern" version of the VL BB.

To me, it's not a factor in the decision to buy it.  I am buying it for other reasons.

However, I am glad someone in the "know" did post it here.  Thanks John!

Or that someone else has taught me wrong here on these forums as I was just relaying what I've read here at ORG a while ago.  I love the Big Boys, but am no expert, nor have ever claimed to be.

If i can come up with the funds, it will probably be 4004 or 4014 for me....

Question for the masses though.. The scale Big Boy (same casting as i understand) is 32" long according to lionel's product info.... the Vision Line Challenger is ALSO 32" long... Is Big Boy's tender MUCH smaller, or is there really almost no size difference between 3900 and 4000 class? (In lionel's world at least)

But you made a VERY definitive post, about 2 hours ago, that just might have led others to believe that you DID know what you were talking about.

Hot Water your comment about sinclair was very rude.  Was your intent to be rude? Sharing factually accurate about the UP testing a Big Boy would have otherwise been appreciated, but I would rather go without or find the info in a book than read you berate a forum member.

Sorry, but apparently you haven't seen other "authoritative" post by sinclair, that were not correct either.

Save the apology, but your sarcasm does prove my point. 

What does his previous erroneous (in your estimation) post have to do with you posting a rude comment?

I don't remember if it was posted here or on youtube, but someone did a side by side comparison of the two.  Showed the differences well.

I own both of these engines, if I have some time, I'll take pics of them for you.

Well, it seems I need to put a disclaimer on all my posts now that I am not an authority on anything since I haven't have the same experiences as Hot Water, because it seems my experiences don't count for anything.  Thank you T4TT for sanding up for me, but sadly I'm used to it not only from people here and on other sites, but also in my personal life at work, school, church, and even home.  I state things as facts as I know them, and some people just can't handle it when it's wrong, and lash out instead of kindly correcting me.  I guess they think I can't handle corrections.  I know Hot Water has had many experiences that I can only dream of having, but I do have my own, and I draw upon them when I make my comments, as imperfect as they may have been.

Anywho, back on topic, I might just get 4018 since I haven't noticed really anyone else pick it. 

because hotwater was a steam ( and might still work steam on the 765) person and should be known as an authoritative!!

Bigdodgtrain

being an authority on a topic does not give anyone the "authority" or the right be a jerk and treat others rudely.

hot water may be quite knowledgeable but the rude and arrogant manner in which he writes his responses is unwarranted.

being hailed by some on this forum as a resident expert should not excuse anyone from respecting a community norm such as courteousness.  This social norm should apply to conversations in person or via on-line forums. 

sinclair made a mistake, big deal, why tear into him?  Hey sinclair, don't let hot water's comments get to you and I hope you keep posting on this forum.

Mark Bee

The comparison of lengths of the prototype Challenger and the Big Boy are as follows:

Big Boy                      132'  9 7/8"

Challenger                 121'  10 7/8"

The tenders of both engines have  identical lengths.

As can be seen, the Big Boy is almost 11' longer than the Challenger.  That's approximately a 3" difference in our modeling world (1/4" to the foot).

Steve

A good rule of thumb for on-line conversations is to say only what you'd say in person to the other folks.  It makes for much more civil conversations, at least usually.

I want the 4014 which has a tender full of UP stocks!  Well, somebody said steamers used money, not coal or oil, for fuel!