Struggling with first O scale trackplan

I'd start by showing us what the actual space for the layout is and maybe some of the really good layout designers can give you some ideas.

Identifying total space available, impediments (doors, windows, support poles, utilities requiring access, etc.) and operational goals (operate like a real railroad, sit back and watch trains run, something else, etc.) will get someone to help you.  Also, attach a copy of the file you use to draft any plan you desire help with.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

Identifying total space available, impediments (doors, windows, support poles, utilities requiring access, etc.) and operational goals (operate like a real railroad, sit back and watch trains run, something else, etc.) will get someone to help you.  Also, attach a copy of the file you use to draft any plan you desire help with.

Chuck

Thankfully there is not really any impediments, just need enough room at the end to get to the sump pump door, that’s why it is a triangle shape.

I’m looking more to sit back and run the trains than operate like a railroad. Trying to design a a layout in O is much more of a challenge than HO due to its size

One thing to consider is your planned direction of travel and how you’d service the spurs. For example, if you travel clockwise, servicing the spurs will be problematic. If you travel counterclockwise, servicing will be more natural because you can back in, drop a car(s) and continue on. If there are cars to be picked up too, you can back in and pull them out. Even if you don’t plan to actually do any of that, the design should still look like you could.

As for what others have said, you should post the software file so others can edit to show their suggestions rather than try to explain them in writing. And seeing the actual available space will help others show how to plan for expansion later.

Dave, as usual, is more than correct.  As trains would leave your planned yard, they can only travel clockwise and then would have to back-in to return to the yard.  They would also have to be pushing any cars they wanted to deposit at your industry spurs.  Some of these problems could be solved by putting your yard on a peninsula (in the center of your ovals) that is entered through a wye at the top of your oval where there appears to be room.  With that trackwork, trains leaving the yard would be able to travel in any direction.  You would be able to have returning trains enter head first, let the engines "escape" back to the wye, run through the wye to change direction and then reattach to another outbound train.

Of course, this means re-arranging your industrial spurs and building (infrastructure) some way to easily enter the center of your layout.  With today's technology (and even last century's technology), both of those changes can be easily overcome.

Chuck

Chuck, trains can travel in both directions, but it would take positioning a “main” engine on the main below the yard switch while a “yard” engine pulls a consist out of the yard. The main would then pick up the consist to run counterclockwise. Or the main engine could use the runaround spur in the yard to position itself at the lower end of the consist to then back out of the yard to run counterclockwise. Of course, all that blocks the main. A lot depends on how yardtrain wants to operate other than watch trains go around in circles. I can’t tell what software he’s using, so I’m waiting to see if he posts the file.

on you drawing, what is the scale?  And from a practical point of view turn your siding on the right side 190degrees  and run  the stub tracks up into the blank area going to the top.  Remove the top sidings and add them to the new side tracks .  Remember short 1 car stub sidings are worthless and a waste of an expensive switch.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Chuck, trains can travel in both directions, but it would take positioning a “main” engine on the main below the yard switch while a “yard” engine pulls a consist out of the yard. The main would then pick up the consist to run counterclockwise. Or the main engine could use the runaround spur in the yard to position itself at the lower end of the consist to then back out of the yard to run counterclockwise. Of course, all that blocks the main. A lot depends on how yardtrain wants to operate other than watch trains go around in circles. I can’t tell what software he’s using, so I’m waiting to see if he posts the file.

Here is the file of my layout, made In RailModeller Pro. I am not sure if you’ll be able to view it.

I agree I need an “entrance” to the yard on both directions along with crossovers for the inside and outside tracks. I have not had much luck designing a yard before so I am definitely struggling with that aspect of this new layout.

I am using GarGraves curved o72 inside and o80 on the outside

@PRR1950 posted:

Dave, as usual, is more than correct.  As trains would leave your planned yard, they can only travel clockwise and then would have to back-in to return to the yard.  They would also have to be pushing any cars they wanted to deposit at your industry spurs.  Some of these problems could be solved by putting your yard on a peninsula (in the center of your ovals) that is entered through a wye at the top of your oval where there appears to be room.  With that trackwork, trains leaving the yard would be able to travel in any direction.  You would be able to have returning trains enter head first, let the engines "escape" back to the wye, run through the wye to change direction and then reattach to another outbound train.

Of course, this means re-arranging your industrial spurs and building (infrastructure) some way to easily enter the center of your layout.  With today's technology (and even last century's technology), both of those changes can be easily overcome.

Chuck

I am not sure if a peninsula yard would be possible in my current space, I will post some photos today, I am deconstructing my current HO layout, which I will reuse most of the benchwork while adding new benchwork as well.

I was afraid of that, most here use SCARM or AnyRail for Windows. Does RMP allow you to display track names/numbers? If so, it would help if we knew the track sizes being used. Also, are the grid squares 6”? Since you mentioned triangle, I assume to dual mains run around the perimeter?

While going from HO to O is theoretically a "doubling", its really not, and is probably closer to 4x the needed room in some directions.  All the sidings look short (clearance issues at the points and trying to couple cars on a tangent) and the ability to switch those sidings is limited to basically a shove from the yard to the sidings and pull back, absent another runaround somewhere on the line. With a small space, it is worth considering a single main, instead of a double, which would leave more room for messing around with sidings on both sides of the main.  A spot somewhere on the line that is doubled as a passing siding/runaround would make the operations work smoothly.  Also, you dont need a "huge" yard.  A short line can function off an interchange track or a small 2-3 track yard that only holds enough cars for the number of car spots you have on the line.

My compromise for one mainline or two was a large folded dogbone single mainline.  This allows me to run long trains and gives the illusion of a larger mainline.  My single mainline is 140 feet of track.

As others have stated, we need more info before we can give you too much advice.

How much space do you have available? Your RM Pro plan shows a canvas that's ~18' x ~26' but you're not using all that space. So it currently looks like a "island style" layout in a much bigger room where an "around the walls" style layout might be a better fit and give you longer runs, wider curves, etc. I'd start by using the "shapes" in RM Pro to sketch out the dimensions of your room, including any doors, closets, appliances, electrical panels, etc that need to be avoided. Be sure to include the sump pump location and how much space needs to be clear around it as well.

You said you mainly want to watch trains run and aren't interested in operation, but it looks like you're trying to fit a yard and industry sidings into your plan. Do you want to do operations or do you just want to watch trains run? A functional yard with a lead, run around, etc is much more complicated (and takes a lot more space) than a "storage yard" which probably just consists of a 3-way or 4-way switch off the mainline with a bunch of dead end tracks.

There are lots of folks on the forum who are willing to help, myself included, but we can't do much until these basic questions are answered

I know most folks don't use it, but there's a lot you can do with RM Pro! Here are a couple examples of plans I've put together for folks here on the forum using that software

My email is in my profile - feel free to reach out if you'd like some help getting a track plan put together!

@Mike0289 posted:

As others have stated, we need more info before we can give you too much advice.

How much space do you have available? Your RM Pro plan shows a canvas that's ~18' x ~26' but you're not using all that space. So it currently looks like a "island style" layout in a much bigger room where an "around the walls" style layout might be a better fit and give you longer runs, wider curves, etc. I'd start by using the "shapes" in RM Pro to sketch out the dimensions of your room, including any doors, closets, appliances, electrical panels, etc that need to be avoided. Be sure to include the sump pump location and how much space needs to be clear around it as well.

You said you mainly want to watch trains run and aren't interested in operation, but it looks like you're trying to fit a yard and industry sidings into your plan. Do you want to do operations or do you just want to watch trains run? A functional yard with a lead, run around, etc is much more complicated (and takes a lot more space) than a "storage yard" which probably just consists of a 3-way or 4-way switch off the mainline with a bunch of dead end tracks.

There are lots of folks on the forum who are willing to help, myself included, but we can't do much until these basic questions are answered

I apologize if I am making this harder than it needs to be. I am very much a novice at doing this. Here are some photos of the current space, as you can see there is a built in workbench so there needs to be space to get there and the sump pump. Which is why the current track plan is a sort of triangle shape. Please ignore the mess of tearing up the old HO layout  i have attatched the trackplan of that as well.

I am getting out of HO because it was a lot more trouble than I originally bargained for. I am more interested in "playing" with the trains than operating them like a real railroad. I like the smoke, talking features and sounds that I could not really get with HO. My main background is MTH G scale- I have a lot of knowledge taking them apart and fixing them as well as well as working on a garden railway.

The main wants of my layout are first and foremost to watch the trains run- however I would like a yard for storage along with a few sidings of industries. Again they are more play than operating like a real railroad really. I like the 'fun-ness' of O scale vs other scales. I do not mean to offend anyone here either these are just my personal thoughts.

I will go back to the beginning on this and sketch out the room as I should have done that before really. Thank you for the help.

I love your double mainline!  You have a beautiful flow through various curves with very limited actual straight.  Also, the two lines run together, but not in lockstep.  Sometimes they are together, but sometimes they bend apart, perhaps to accommodate various obstacles.  I think these two factors together give a very natural and realistic look to your layout from the get go.  Too often I see track plans with perfect curves and long straights and double track in perfect parallel all the way around.

@yardtrain posted:

I will go back to the beginning on this and sketch out the room as I should have done that before really. Thank you for the help.

Great idea, that should be the first step in any plan.  I used Sweet Home 3D to do a reasonably accurate plan of my whole basement, then I positioned the layout.  This program allows you to create and position walls, windows, doors, and the furniture.

While we wait for further details, some ideas;

1. A double track mainline like your HO layout will allow two trains continuous running in opposite directions.

2. A yard along the way will allow you to: 1) take a train out of action, 2) perform route switching to revise the consist for variety (and fun), 3) substitute a different train because we all own more than we can run simultaneously.

3. I hear you say you mostly want to watch them run, but please include some spurs. These can be mail/express/commissary/coach tracks for passenger, industry spurs, or even company sidings for coal, sand, and oil. If you have not played the switching game, you don't know what you are missing. In addition to the fun of switching, these moves change up the consists on the main line for more variety and fun.

4. Personally, I am deeply engaged in passenger switching, in which consists are switched to match B&O prototype (but not exact car types). Great fun. Highly recommended!

While envious of folks with huge dormer attics, double car garages, and large unfinished dry basements,  my 11X14 multi use space, 6'3" in the center and 5 ft at the walls,  that can only support a double track around the room layout with a couple crossovers and spurs in the corners, is a joy to operate since the only other option would be to watch youtube videos of other peoples O Gauge empires.  Translation: any running O gauge setup is better than none.

I have gone ahead and drawn out the entire basement where the layout can go. I would like to use the existing benchwork as much as possible. Thats why I was planning a sort of triangle shape. I have marked the potential new benchwork in dark grey. Thank you all in advance for your help, I am sorry if I made any of this more difficult than it needs to be.

I would like to extend the layout past the bathroom area to my desk eventually in the future. For phase 1 I am planning a oval loop with two tracks and possibly a small yard for storage.

@Mike0289 posted:

I know most folks don't use it, but there's a lot you can do with RM Pro! Here are a couple examples of plans I've put together for folks here on the forum using that software

My email is in my profile - feel free to reach out if you'd like some help getting a track plan put together!

Those designs are some great work, I sent you an email!

Tried to reproduce some of the design in SCARM. Not sure I got the dimensions right because counting squares in one photo (19) doesn't seem to match the other (21) and obviously I didn't use the same sectional tracks. This was done using O-80 for outer loop and O-72 for inner loop. I also used #4 switches for the yard and some larger curves for the little jog. I didn't use any flex track and there are some cuts, mostly just wanted to nail down the dimensions. I wanted too see if the yard would fit on the other side so there could be a walk-in with a lift-out/up section where the yard is now, otherwise there are going to be reach issues without access hatches.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Tried to reproduce some of the design in SCARM. Not sure I got the dimensions right because counting squares in one photo (19) doesn't seem to match the other (21) and obviously I didn't use the same sectional tracks. This was done using O-80 for outer loop and O-72 for inner loop. I also used #4 switches for the yard and some larger curves for the little jog. I didn't use any flex track and there are some cuts, mostly just wanted to nail down the dimensions. I wanted too see if the yard would fit on the other side so there could be a walk-in with a lift-out/up section where the yard is now, otherwise there are going to be reach issues without access hatches.

Hi Dave

i think this is great work and a good start at the layout design. I would like to add some crossovers of course and another siding or two for industries. I struggle the most with yard design, I’ve bought books on yard design and still struggle to wrap my head around them.
I also like making some of the straight parallel tracks slowly bend and move away from each other to make them seem bigger than they actually are.
Thank you for your help

@yardtrain your diagrams are really helpful! I think it would help us to see what space if off limits for the layout as that's not very clear (at least not to me) right now.

Building in phases is a good way to limit the up front expense but I think you should figure out what you want the final layout to look like in terms of space, track plan, etc so you can make sure what you're building now will fit with what you want to build later.

Yes to your mods of crossovers, industry spurs, and flex track rather than racetrack shape. The main thing the yard needs is a lead clear of the main. I also second the call regarding space off limits. From the photos, it appears the layout could be rectangular along the same dimensions as the HO L-shape...unless you have other plans for that corner? Let us know. Moving the yard to the rear would make most sense if you were aiming at a duck under or lift-bridge entry into an operating central space. In my experience, it helps to be close to the action when operating at slows speeds over switches and doing a lot of coupling and uncoupling.

Here's another version. This one keeps everything within reach, but doesn't allow much room for spurs, assuming my dimensions are right, especially the 19' across the top.

John, There is a little dip where the tracks meet. Nice tanker train. WOW 54 cars.

@Mike0289 posted:

@yardtrain your diagrams are really helpful! I think it would help us to see what space if off limits for the layout as that's not very clear (at least not to me) right now.

Building in phases is a good way to limit the up front expense but I think you should figure out what you want the final layout to look like in terms of space, track plan, etc so you can make sure what you're building now will fit with what you want to build later.

Hi Mike

Here are two images of what the benchwork could look like. Essentially this is the maximum of where the train benchwork can go, so there is still room to move around in the basement.

I have attatched a phase 1 and full phase 2 plan. It incorporates the existing benchwork as well. I think the benchwork layout is not very changable because of the existing benchwork but also the space itself only allows for so much wiggle room because of the other things in the basement (bathroom, workbench, desk, etc)

The actual trackplan on top of the benchwork is really the part where I am having the most trouble as I am a novice at track design.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

Sam

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Here's another version. This one keeps everything within reach, but doesn't allow much room for spurs, assuming my dimensions are right, especially the 19' across the top.

Hey Dave, thanks so much for your diagram. I have gone ahead and tried my best to copy it in RailModeller pro. Its obviously not as good as yours but I tried my best to copy it over. Could you share your file to me also?

Probably because there are quite a few cut tracks. Do you have a way to run SCARM? In case you don't, here's a photo with labels. Bear in mind, it's based on 19' along the top. Oh, and the double crossover is not included, it's just laid over the other tracks.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Probably because there are quite a few cut tracks. Do you have a way to run SCARM? In case you don't, here's a photo with labels. Bear in mind, it's based on 19' along the top. Oh, and the double crossover is not included, it's just laid over the other tracks.

Dave, thanks for your help. While I run Mac as my primary I do have windows machines and servers

Got it. BTW, if you pursue something like this, you’d probably want to reverse the spur and relocate the double crossover. I put it there so a train could come out of the yard and go to the outer loop without having to go all the way around. I would shorten the yard lead and put it where that switch is now. I even worked up a version with a manual single track TT. 🤣

If you break up your double crossover and stagger them, you could get a run-around track out on your main somewhere.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Got it. BTW, if you pursue something like this, you’d probably want to reverse the spur and relocate the double crossover. I put it there so a train could come out of the yard and go to the outer loop without having to go all the way around. I would shorten the yard lead and put it where that switch is now. I even worked up a version with a manual single track TT. 🤣

Here is the current progress on my trackplan; I took some of your ideas and incorporated them into this. This also includes the larger outer loop I am hoping will work in my basement