Sunset/3rd Rail 2-10-2 Has Runaways

What TMCC system is in it.  Can check antenna, after that look at Motor Drive unit and R2LC depending on what TMCC system is used.  G

Number 90 posted:

My brass 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2-10-2 has apparently started failing to go into TMCC mode when track power is turned on  Track power comes from two Lionel bricks, and is "instantly" on, instead of being ramped up with the lever of a transformer.  The engine will take off at its maximum speed until power is shut off.  Sometimes power has to be cycled three times before the engine settles down to TMCC mode.

Would someone have a suggestion as to where I might look for a simple fix?  I want to try the simple solutions before the complex ones. 

Tom:

I suspect what has happened is you have lost the tender "antenna" for the TMCC (or is it the other way around, I can't remember, see Dale Manquin's site).  Anyway, on 3rd rail systems, the tender is totally isolated from track power, and the tender shell acts as the antenna.  

The simplest thing to do is to disconnect the ground wire from the tender, and run a separate wire for the antenna.  For test purposes, run it up to the tender top, and tape it in place with paint masking tape.  See if you regain TMCC control. 

I'd be wiiling to bet that you will.  Then, once you do confirm that works, then the challenge becomes finding a place to hide the antenna wire in such a way that it is not visible.  On one NP Z8 that I modified, I ran it between the center sill of the underframe, and just taped it in place (in case we wanted to move it).  On the one I had and sold, I took out the coal pile, looped the wire around and glued it inside the tender bottom, then put in a better looking coal pile.  But, IIRC, you don't have that luxury on your oil burner. 

I have a Z-6 in exactly the same state as yours (plus the sound took a powder) that I need to sort out so I can sell it.  But that takes time away from the Spokane Southern, so it will need to sit for a bit. 

LMK if that works for you.

Regards.

Jerry

That rush should not be an issue typically from what I have seen done with TMCC equipment. If its just that engine and not any others. It might be the Radio Receiver in the engine. Do you know what year that engine was made? If its older I would update the radio board to a R2LC-C08 which is the most up to date in the R2LC family.  

I'm glad this subject came up as I have had some issues with my 3rd rail Hudson. Sigh..., I'll take the tender apart.

Thanks for the instruction.

Ron H

I had similar problems with a 3rd Rail B&O big six.  Turned out to be a loose flywheel.  If you can't find an electronic issue, you might want to check it out.

If it's a TAS system, a loose flywheel would indeed cause it to take off if it starts slipping.

Heres something simple, if it works.

If your not doing so already, try powering the command base up first, then the track.

If your track power and base are turned on simultaneously, its possible the command signal could be "late"getting to the loco which would cause it to drop into conventional.

Thanks for the advice, fellows.  I'll work with those solutions and see what happens.  I forgot to mention that it has Engineer-On-Board with the TMCC.

On 3rd Rail problems: Thanks for your comments GNNPNUT. My new B&O T-3 stops frequently-like every couple of feet. I'm not getting the blinking headlight, so I presume the loco is getting its TMCC signal. Sounds like the center rail pickups are faulty. Does this sound right? Any wisdom will be appreciated.

Regardless, I intend to fully isolate  the tender shell with Kapton tape and nylon screws.

Since the engine is new, I'd suggest you get in touch with Scott at 3rd Rail.  He would have the best take on problems with the T-3.   I definitely would not make any modifications until then. 

rex desilets posted:

On 3rd Rail problems: Thanks for your comments GNNPNUT. My new B&O T-3 stops frequently-like every couple of feet. I'm not getting the blinking headlight, so I presume the loco is getting its TMCC signal. Sounds like the center rail pickups are faulty. Does this sound right? Any wisdom will be appreciated.

Regardless, I intend to fully isolate  the tender shell with Kapton tape and nylon screws.

Hi Rex:

I would echo the comments of B&O east end.  If it is new, send it to Scott. 

Regards,

Jerry

rex desilets posted:

On 3rd Rail problems: Thanks for your comments GNNPNUT. My new B&O T-3 stops frequently-like every couple of feet. I'm not getting the blinking headlight, so I presume the loco is getting its TMCC signal. Sounds like the center rail pickups are faulty. Does this sound right? Any wisdom will be appreciated.

Regardless, I intend to fully isolate  the tender shell with Kapton tape and nylon screws.

I have a 3rd Rail PRR M1a that drove me crazy for months with random stopping.  It would completely lose power (headlight dark) when this happened.  Nudging it an eighth of an inch restored power and it would run a little longer.

Turned out the rollers were the culprit.  I tried contact cleaner, conductive lube, removing the shiny plating, etc. and nothing worked.  I finally replaced the roller pickups with pickups from MTH.  I chose some with the same arm length and needed to use small machine screws with nuts to mount them since 3rd Rail's pickups are threaded while MTH's are not.  Since the change, the locomotive has been flawless.

 Hey guys if the antennae is shorting out. would a continuity test between the tender shell and outside rail determine anything?  

Bob posted:

rex desilets posted:

On 3rd Rail problems: Thanks for your comments GNNPNUT. My new B&O T-3 stops frequently-like every couple of feet. I'm not getting the blinking headlight, so I presume the loco is getting its TMCC signal. Sounds like the center rail pickups are faulty. Does this sound right? Any wisdom will be appreciated.

Regardless, I intend to fully isolate  the tender shell with Kapton tape and nylon screws.

I have a 3rd Rail PRR M1a that drove me crazy for months with random stopping.  It would completely lose power (headlight dark) when this happened.  Nudging it an eighth of an inch restored power and it would run a little longer.

Turned out the rollers were the culprit.  I tried contact cleaner, conductive lube, removing the shiny plating, etc. and nothing worked.  I finally replaced the roller pickups with pickups from MTH.  I chose some with the same arm length and needed to use small machine screws with nuts to mount them since 3rd Rail's pickups are threaded while MTH's are not.  Since the change, the locomotive has been flawless.

Multiple thanks, Bob. Sounds like my problem, too.

I just wrote Sunset describing my problem, just because. If Sunset says it's a different problem (?) then I'll send it back, although I hate to pay the shipping cost and take the shipping risk. Otherwise, I'll follow up on your recommendation. BTW: my 3rd Rail M1b runs flawlessly, so the issue must be random or just a bad 3rd rail pickup design.