Hate to admit that I'm not very familiar with either of these machines as my previous experience has only been with 'stock' units. What are your thoughts on these two quality units please?
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I favor Tortoise Sam and have used up 32 on a layout in the past operated by a handheld TMCC walk-around remote utilzing ASC modules wired to diodes to convert to DC power. My current( but stagnant) attic layout has 17 Tortoise with a 12VDC wall wart as power supply. I manually throw the switches now from a central location via simple Toggles located on a track schematic. I have never had a Tortoise to fail.They are stall motors and do not burn out.
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I used DZ 2500s with gargraves turnouts on my first layout, and Tortoises with Atlas turnouts on my current layout.
DZ2500 Pros: Easy to install and setup, position LEDs on motor and controller, works with TMCC (need one DZ-2001 to provide Data Wire), works with AIU
DZ2500 Cons: Non-prototype tabletop mounting, a couple of my units were closing the points inconsistently, sometimes only partially, Cost $44
Tortoise Pros: prototype under-the-table mounting, very reliable, works with TMCC using ASC controller modules, easy to add LED position indicators (dwarf signal and/or control panel lights), 2 additional sets of contacts for signaling (or power routing with a relay), works with AIU accessory ports, Cost $18
Tortoise Cons: More time-consuming to install, need latching relay to use with AIU switch ports
Bob
I have almost 40 Tortoise machines on my Atlas turnouts, like the clean look and the ability to add the dwarf signals. They do take time to install easier with someone helping. Very happy so far.
Tortoise are so good I forget about them and take them for granted. they work off my AIU(use the accessory ports) and use AC or DC. I think I have 30 of them installed now. Really cool if you install the scale illuminated switch stands.
Clem
CSAM:
As far as quality is concerned both the Tortoise and the DZ1000 (not the 2500 - have seen first hand and heard about issues going back about two years ago with the 2500. Not sure if they have been fixed or not) are equal in great quality. Deciding which to use should not based on quality or performance but on your opinion which 'look' you are going after. The Tortoise is hidden underneath the table so is more "prototypical". The DZ1000 sits on top of the table. It is small but noticeable.
I have no experience with Tortoise so will ask this one question - does it have capability for non-derail and if so so since it is a slow moving machine how far back on the track must the non-rail feature be set up? If the Tortoise has no non-derail feature this should figure in your decision making process.
Joe
PS - the month I moved from Mesa to Prescott (about three years ago) a train club I belonged to (Paradise and Pacific) began changing all Atlas O switch motors to Tortoise. One club member designed a jig to make hole drilling and machine placement fast and almost foolproof. One of the last times I went to the layout I wired in about three Tortoise machines using the jig - it was a snap. Last I heard the tortoise machines were working perfectly.
Joe, The Tortoise is more difficult for one person to install. One gets a case of "train neck" and "trainback" fairly soon.
I did these in 2010 when semi-healthy. You can see from my earlier photos that orientation of the switch throwbar with the black line and centering the carrier throw wire under the throwbar hole above both required realignment (that occurred after wife helped from above).
After installing the switch itself and cutting a springwire throw hole, I first centered the switch points by placing cue tips between the points and rails which places the throwbar spring wire hole in the right orientation to fully close the points against the rails each way. From above I drill small holes at each end of the throwbar and drop a nail in the hole. Underneath I mark a straight black line between the temporary marker nails and mount the Tortoise on a dab of double stick tape while inserting the long uncut wire up into the throwbar hole according to a red mark indicating vertical (when helper said wire was vertical); also aligning the machine along the black line for the correct "throw" from "thru"[mainline) to "out"spur or siding) position on the switch. It is easy to relocate/realign the Tortoise from a dab of tape and install retaining screws.
Back in the day when operated from 7 ASC via Cab 1 on Condo layout dismantled in '08.
i
RRDOC posted:DZ2500 Cons: Non-prototype tabletop mounting, a couple of my units were closing the points inconsistently, sometimes only partially, Cost $44
Bob
That is our biggest issue with the 2500's, you never know if it is going to work correctly.
Model Structures posted:CSAM:
As far as quality is concerned both the Tortoise and the DZ1000 (not the 2500 - have seen first hand and heard about issues going back about two years ago with the 2500. Not sure if they have been fixed or not) are equal in great quality. Deciding which to use should not based on quality or performance but on your opinion which 'look' you are going after.
Joe
Having many derailments and crashes caused by DZ2500's not throwing completely I recommend going with function over looks.
Clem,
Really nice!
Who makes the switch stands?
Bob
RRDOC posted:Clem,
Really nice!
Who makes the switch stands?
Bob
Ross
I noted that the DZ2500 had issues. A friend built a big layout with over 100 of the machines. Herb ended up replacing them all with DZ-1000's. I have also heard of problems from customers of mine when talking to them about their layouts. Herb's issues occurred over 4 years ago so I don't know if the DZ-2500 problems were ever solved.
A club I belonged to before moving uses Tortoise machines with as far as I know zero issues. I have used DZ-1000 for about 5 years again with zero issues. I like them so much I have been replacing Atlas O switch motors with DZ-1000 as I get the chance.
I was comparing the DZ-1000 to the Tortoise. Based on my opinion that they are equivalent in quality and performance it should not matter which one is used other than the fact one can see the DZ-1000 on top of the table and the Tortoise is hidden underneath.
As Dewey noted the Tortoise is more difficult to install than the DZ-1000. A jig designed by a member of the Paradise and Pacific RR Club in Scottsdale AZ can help a lot.
Apologies if what I previously stated confused anyone.
Joe
Does anyone know if the Tortoise can be wired for non-derail?
In looking at the nice video on full screen it appears that the outer curved rail doesn't close completely flush when activated to the turn position. Is it just my old eyes playing tricks?
Sam, one of the features of Tortoise machines (by FAR the best switch machines out there, in my opinion) is that you can adjust the length of the throw by sliding a fulcrum on the machine. You can then get some spring tension from the activator wire that holds the points against the stock rails. The spring tension is strong enough to hold the points, but weak enough so that a train can run through the switch against the way it is thrown without derailing. The wheels will push the points out of the way so they can pass, then the points will spring back against the stock rails.
Yes, they can be wired for non derailing. If I remember correctly either Ross or Gargraves has wiring diagrams on their web sites
