T&P F7's - Houston we have a problem - A big problem.

The Mopac and T&P blue was very unmistakable when seen in person.  I would almost call it understated as far as a blue goes, much to Number 90's description, not really Navy, definitely no Cobalt, that hint of green.  It's a pretty color and then the white cream type color, not silver by any means.

These should be close to right, period.  No one would want a daylight loco with neon orange and burgundy red or a Warbonnet with white and maroon (except maybe an Aggie, because they think maroon goes on everything).

TEXASSP,

Don't be making fun of us Aggies! Maroon does go with everything. If the T&P's would have been Maroon I would of given Lionel a pass.

I just received an email from Nassau Hobby this morning saying that Lionel / Ryan is working on a solution with the factory. Hopefully they will make these right. This is at least a positive sign.

Blue Streak posted:

TEXASSP,

I just received an email from Nassau Hobby this morning saying that Lionel / Ryan is working on a solution with the factory. Hopefully they will make these right. This is at least a positive sign.

 

Thanks for that information.  That was what I meant by going to the dealer first.  They have the pull and a vested interest in making it right.

TexasSP posted:

No one would want . . . a Warbonnet with white and maroon (except maybe an Aggie, because they think maroon goes on everything).

Bless their hearts.

Blue Streak posted:

TEXASSP,

Don't be making fun of us Aggies! Maroon does go with everything. If the T&P's would have been Maroon I would of given Lionel a pass.

As the father of an Aggie and an admirer of Texas & Pacific, I agree that the MoPac/T&P Eagle schemes would still look handsome if they had used maroon in place of blue.  What we should be glad for is that they did not use burnt orange instead of blue.  

MoPac called it "Cerulean Blue."

Tom,

The Cotton Belt was on the right track (Aggie Style) before they went with the Confederate General Colors on the new FT's. Maybe ut complained. Unfortunately I can't find a color picture of the FT's so this DT-6-6-2000 will have to stand in for the colors.

Lionel take a look at little sweet Cotton Belt ten wheeler and it is black.

I could go for some Cotton Belt FT's in this paint scheme. Of course I would take Cotton Belt FT's in black widow as well.

Would not the historical society for MP and/or T&P have paint chips?  Or living better with chemistry DuPont?  UP, for they bought MP?  CAT, for they have bought EMD, which built diesels for MP/TP, and UP 1982.  Amd I think one regular poster on these forums has an EMD paint chip collection.

Actually I think they look great!  Much better in Burnt Orange rather than maroon!

Hook'em Horns!

UP did get it right on the 1982.

Caught it yesterday down here near Austin at McNeil, Texas.

Blue Streak,

Do you have the Lionel Legacy MoPac SD40? If so, could you take a photo of it in between your Lionel T&P F7 and your Atlas Mopac F3? I'm interested in comparing the blue they used. Thanks!

Texas Eagle,

Yes I have them. It may take me a while to do what you ask - but I can do it.

BTW - Those burnt orange engines in your picture are flat out ugly and that logo Yuck!!!!!!

The T&NO SUNBEAM came tnrough College Station.  One of the train's colors was ORANGE!

Yeah but not burnt orange

Does anyone know which factory made these engines?  Was it Affatech that just closed?  My CSX #9999 (assembled by Affatech)  was at Lionel for service, and they were waiting for parts from China for a month and a half.

The engine was returned repaired, but the old broken air hoses were glued back on with lots of glue.  I could have done that.  I was looking for new parts on a NEW engine I just purchased from Nicholas Smith Trains. 

Lack of parts was also a problem for my new Atlas F7 engines.  The roof rings were not glued in place at the factory on some engines. The corner ladders were bent or broken.  No parts.  No Parts.  No parts.

If there are no repairs parts, there is no future for the product.  If it breaks, throw it away.  Cha Ching. 

Atlas gets it right most of the time but who wants to wait years for production to commence on your favorite locomotive.  Sadly, Lionel seems to have really dropped the ball on the F3s.  50% of the production was decorated completely wrong.  They have a wonderful paint facility in NC that does the LioneScale cars so why not just decorate the Legacy line over here where there is greater quality control?  I think I will just invest the money I was going to spend on the 2018 book 2 stuff since the stock market is booming right now. Better returns and less frustration...

Mike

John Rowlen posted:

Does anyone know which factory made these engines?  Was it Affatech that just closed? 

No.  Built and painted elsewhere.

Lou N

I have been thinking about this thread for a couple of days, it is disappointing that your unsatisfied with the colors, and I am not a Scale purist, simply an operator, however, in my honest opinion, I like those colors very much. They are mistakingly Beautiful.  Running 3 rail trains, my layout being named “Leapin Larry’s Looney Lines RR”, simply said The Quad L Lines..... I share your sadness with color as I have the Sante Fe F Units coming and their color scheme is similarly incorrect.  I do not care, I really wish they were painted like the 1953 sets were, hi gloss bright Red and Silver.. I simply enjoy running the trains in Legacy Command. I Hope your questions and concerns will be addressed satisfactorily for your happiness. Good luck and hopefully you will say, Lionel is trying to make you happy.

Larry,

There really is no comparison between accepting the Santa Fe units VS. the Texas & Pacific. The Santa Fe guys are arguing over a gloss on a paint. And It has been shown depending on light and camera that they are pretty close. I bought a set and I am not complaining and will keep those. The T&P used cobalt blue and silver instead of the correct colors. Lionel is not even in the right neighborhood here on T&P colors. Big difference. Since you like the T&P colors as is so much, why don't you paypal me $1300.00 and I will ship an A-B-B-A set right to you and i can forget about it.

Wow, I wish I could have purchased my Sante Fe Set for that price, paid much more.  I do think from what I am hearing, you should simply return your set to whom you purchased it from and get something else.  I am not able to trade my new Sante Fe do to getting my Lionel El Capitan 18” aluminum passenger set LED lights ready for duty.  I do have the New, shelved, Lionel Legacy Frisco Powered A, Powered B dummy A I would trade....We never say never....as the door is always open....Good Luck, I am simply not doing anymore BTO orders, to many surprises and most of the time, the product is different than shown in the catalog.  Many large Dealers have extra’s, and sometimes make better prices just to adjust their inventories.  Good Luck. 

Lou, Thank you for the answer.  I appreciate it.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

The T&P unit looks like it has a D/B fan.  Did the real units have them?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

The T&P unit looks like it has a D/B fan.  Did the real units have them?

Yes.

Rusty

Dominic Mazoch posted:

The T&P unit looks like it has a D/B fan.  Did the real units have them?

Yes they did. Unlike the Missouri Pacific, the T&P was partial to equipping its road units with dynamic brakes. Many T&P locomotives later had their dynamic brakes removed as the Mo Pac  solidified its control of the T&P, but T&P diesels having dynamic brakes is accurate for the 1940’s and 1950’s.

T&P did run in some mountains in West Texas on SP trackage rights!

The man said the official color is:

Cerulean Blue

With a name like that, it’s got to be pretty.  You guys sure seem passionate about the correct color.  I think if I google it I could come closer than they did.  With a couple crayons.

Hi all,

We are aware that the TEXAS & PACIFIC F7 units and the NEW YORK ONTARIO & WESTERN F3 UNITS were made in the wrong color scheme. These include:

6-85196           Texas and Pacific AA Set

6-85201          New York Ontario & Western AA Set

6-85199          Texas & Pacific LEGACY F7 B-Unit (Powered)

6-85200          Texas & Pacific LEGACY SuperBass F7B-unit

6-85204          New York Ontario & Western LEGACY F3 B-Unit (Powered)

6-85205          New York Ontario & Western LEGACY F3 B-Unit (SuperBass)

We are having new shells made with the correct color and paint scheme. We will be offering a choice for obtaining corrected shells in this program.

 Option 1) We will bring the F3s and F7s in for a shell swap at no cost including a call tag to cover shipping. We ask that you call in to Customer Experience for a return authorization and call tag at 586-949-4100 Ext 2 or take to your local Authorized Service Station for shell replacement.

We will contact you as soon as the corrected shells arrive and you can then ship the units in. This way you can still enjoy the units until we are ready.

If you so choose you can send these in right away, but they will sit until the corrected shells arrive.

Option 2) If you wish to keep the original shells we will be making the corrected shells available for purchase but we will require proof of purchase of the F UNITS before we can sell the shells.

(Price yet to be determined)

We will require your name, proof or purchase in the form of a receipt, daytime phone number and email address so we can contact you as soon as the shells are ready.

Please keep in mind that we have no ETA of when the shells will be available at this time.

We appreciate all of your patronage and support on these and so many other projects and I offer apologies both personally and on behalf of the company for the errors. We will not be making further comments here on the Forum about these until we have a date for the replacement work. If you have any further questions please call Customer Experience or email talktous@lionel.com

Thank you,

Ryan Kunkle

Conrail6358 posted:

Hi all,

We are aware that the TEXAS & PACIFIC F7 units and the NEW YORK ONTARIO & WESTERN F3 UNITS were made in the wrong color scheme. These include:

6-85196           Texas and Pacific AA Set

6-85201          New York Ontario & Western AA Set

6-85199          Texas & Pacific LEGACY F7 B-Unit (Powered)

6-85200          Texas & Pacific LEGACY SuperBass F7B-unit

6-85204          New York Ontario & Western LEGACY F3 B-Unit (Powered)

6-85205          New York Ontario & Western LEGACY F3 B-Unit (SuperBass)

 

We are having new shells made with the correct color and paint scheme. We will be offering a choice for obtaining corrected shells in this program.

 Option 1) We will bring the F3s and F7s in for a shell swap at no cost including a call tag to cover shipping. We ask that you call in to Customer Experience for a return authorization and call tag at 586-949-4100 Ext 2 or take to your local Authorized Service Station for shell replacement.

We will contact you as soon as the corrected shells arrive and you can then ship the units in. This way you can still enjoy the units until we are ready.

If you so choose you can send these in right away, but they will sit until the corrected shells arrive.

 

Option 2) If you wish to keep the original shells we will be making the corrected shells available for purchase but we will require proof of purchase of the F UNITS before we can sell the shells.

(Price yet to be determined)

We will require your name, proof or purchase in the form of a receipt, daytime phone number and email address so we can contact you as soon as the shells are ready.

Please keep in mind that we have no ETA of when the shells will be available at this time.

We appreciate all of your patronage and support on these and so many other projects and I offer apologies both personally and on behalf of the company for the errors. We will not be making further comments here on the Forum about these until we have a date for the replacement work. If you have any further questions please call Customer Experience or email talktous@lionel.com

Thank you,

Ryan Kunkle

Ryan,

I didn’t order either of these units but I want to say thank you and extend my Thanks to the whole Lionel team for making this right. You guys are helping move the hobby in the right direction by fixing your mistakes. 

Too bad they didn't do that with MoPac SD40. 

I know this is a tad overkill at this point, but I did google Cerulean Blue and there is a crayon already in that color.

Texas Eagle 77 posted:

UP did get it right on the 1982.

Caught it yesterday down here near Austin at McNeil, Texas.

Hey Ricky,

I saw 1982 today in a consist parked on the siding under Parmer Lane.

Excellent news.... 

Of course, "Houston, we have a problem" is from Apollo 13, so I could not resist sharing this video. You will understand after about the first 30 to 35 seconds:

I'm still looking to see these wrong colored T&P F7's up against the Lionel MoPac SD40's.

Thanks!

I can't understand how a a company like lionel can do this I understand model trains having little details that are not road specific I'm not that picky to thing like that but this pain on the texas model and the new york Ontario are poor management oversight on lionel 

Texas Eagle 77 posted:

I'm still looking to see these wrong colored T&P F7's up against the Lionel MoPac SD40's.

Thanks!

Hey texas...  i have all of them including the mp gp35s mp sd40s mp pa1s and these t&p f7s...  I can put them outside and take a group pic.  I will get that pic to ryan also for reference.

I thought when we left this on the sd40, the blue on body was perfect match to a MP reference magnet color.  My trucks were a different bright blue though.

The blue does weather as we saw in pics with faded mp logos.  That atlas f unit blue looks like the weathered appearance of this color.

I am waiting for these new shells...  thanks lionel!

 I will try for natural light pic tomorrow...  i can even add the lionel MP heritage up unit to the pic and i know UP helped lionel nail that blue...

I would have lined up with my tongue hanging out to Reserve a set of these plus the B unit by my gawsh these things turned out so awful. I am an old plastic modeler (IPMS) and I am pretty sure I could do much better repainting a set myself. I was completely out of the hobby in 2017-18 due to illness in the family /thankfully I missed out on these. Did Atlas ever make any T&P F units? They do seem to be much more scale even in their low end Train Man series. I have reserved some Sunshine Special cars but no Mop ones!

Ummm. Griff M if you click on page 1 of this thread the o.p. has a picture of both the atlas o a unit and the Lionel a unit.

I saw that. Mop if I am not mistaken, I am holding out for T&P. Or may try painting one myself. 

thanks