The *New* Michigan & Great Lakes, switching layout design thread. - Updated 2/10/2015

The spur track at the auto parts factory is a long way from the edge of your benchwork, unless you have access through the closet. I'd also think a tall structure such as the grain elevator would limit the utility of that spur. It's also a long reach to your staging tracks. What is the height of the proposed layout?

I'd be inclined to make your runaround track longer, even if you have to modify the plan to do it.

I think the layout has a lot of potential. It looks tome like you have a good understanding of how to create interesting scenes with good viewing angles. 

Jeff C

Jeff

Thanks for the feedback.  I think I can make my passing siding longer without having to re-do too much.  As for the layout height I haven't decided yet.  The staging yard will be hard to reach but I do not plan to put trains on and off while they are in the yard.  I will assemble a train or two and park them in the staging yard before an operating session.  

As for the auto parts factory, I know its far away and I plan to use a magnet uncoupler back there.  With Kadees the issues of having a hard time coupling and uncoupling are pretty much fixed compared to lobster couplers.  

Thank you for the great feedback.  i will do some modifications in the next day or two and post them.   

I'd be tempted to cut back the straight track where your auto parts spur comes off the turnout, and maybe think about angling the spur to make it parallel to your passing track.

Looking forward to seeing the next iteration!

Jeff C

Looks like fun...question tho...is there enough room to get 2-3 cars and engine + tender out of the grain elevator area and onto the main back to the ferry area?

Looks like fun!

Peter

Jim,

I like the overall concept.  Having been in HO for 45 years and reading the HO press for that long, this type of layout has been ingrained into my head.  The only trouble is, I only like a little switching, and more running.  You have both, and that's good.  I agree with Jeff's ideas; I am always worried about a long reach and duck-unders/crawl-unders.  I will have to do something like you to get in my small room once the second daughter vacates.

Would it work better to have the grain elevator behind the passing siding, station and water tower, since it would be taller?

It's a good plan, and I am looking forward to following your progress.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this evolves--it's nice to see 2-R planning applied to a 3-R layout.

Jeff C

Do you have room to actually load a car onto a ferry?

I see what your proposing but the factory along the back will be just a building flat.  I really want room to have some scenery and my station in that spot.

I think the max will be 2 cars plus the engine/tender.  All I need to do is pull out two 40 foot box cars and push them onto one of the passing sidings.  Some might go right to the car ferry and some might go onto a made up train to another interchange "staging yard off the layout"

Again I am looking to have my station, scenery in that spot.   Yes I do think it will be a view blocker but I am modeling it loosely off some stations in Michigan that had grain elevators right by them. 

I see your point and I think I will eliminate the draw bridge at the top of the layout.  This would allow for a longer switching lead, and so I do not foul the main.  This would allow two person operations.  One working the yard/ferry and one servicing the elevator/automotive factory.

Thanks for the great feedback and keep it coming!  

How about switching the ferry with its storage tracks?  This ought to eliminate the jog in your continuous loop and give you more room for car storage and staging. 

Since you've introduced the concept of a removable module you ought to think of the ferry as a moveable module that can "sail away" out through the door.  With it :at sea" you'll have more and easier access to the ferry yard and staging tracks.

I do like what you have done.

Jan

Jim,

Yes if you are basing your station and grain silos off a particular place, then by all means do it as in your plan.

Here is a revision of the layout with some changes that everyone suggested.   What do you think?

I have also added a single stall engine house.

Jim,

I like it.  I see you did away with the continuous running lift out bridge option.

Mark

The "loop running" will be there.  I just have to re-add it in the new file.  

Jim,

An additional run-around track on the car ferry side of the layout might come in handy. Otherwise, you will always have to use the one next to the grain elevator and then back into the other side to service the sidings and ferry.

Being able to pull a train toward the ferry will make it seem that each side of the layout is a separate location connected by mainline running.

Jim

Okay!  That's good, because I thought that was something you originally wanted.

Here is a few ideas I have come up with to connect the two legs for loop running.  

Proposal 1) Pretty much my 1st idea.  Use a drop bridge that is hinged to one side of the layout.  When I wan to loop run I just pull up the drop bridge, lock it in place, set the turnouts and go.

Proposal 2)  I have a module at the end of the layout, that is on wheels and I can roll into place.  It connects to the two ends of the track.  No turnouts needed.   Just roll it into place and connect the power supply and let them run around and around.  Can have longer trains, cheaper in the long run.  Need to find wife friendly storage for the module when not in use.  

Definitely like proposal #2, as a curved bridge could lead to operating issues, especially with locomotives and rolling stock that get fussy with poorly aligned track. Instead of having to negotiate for more space, perhaps the module can be tucked under the layout when not in use?

-John

I tend to agree, the one issue is storage.  To store it under the layout I would have to figure out how to make it lower so it can roll under.   

You can store it in the aisle when not running if there is no problem with rolling into the outer room when you are working on the layout.

Jan

good morning

You could make that curved bridge a swinging gate? Is your train room blocked off by a wall and is just a doorway? 

Cool video Clem K!

My room has a wall with french doors that have about a 6 foot opening.  As of right now they swing into the room but I am planning to reverse them so they swing out of the room.  

The module section in front of the closet I plan to either swing out like in your video or flip up.  The closet needs to be accessed a few times a year.  

For the module to allow loop running that wouldn't work as if I go by the removable module it would be actually outside of the room.  I have an ideal where it could lay down flat and be pushed up against the layout when not in use.  I will make up a drawing and post it soon.  

Jim,

I have seen photos of Clem's and Trainman2001's roll-outs before.  Both very well done!  I think I am just going to opt for a simple lift-out bridge when I do mine.  I could measure 20 times, and still cut 1/8th inch too small. 

Clem...do you any special fasteners to ensure the tracks line up?  That is fantastic.

Rick

I like the loop in the next room. The car ferry on a roll away module is great idea too. I remember watching them load rail cars from the auto deck of the ferry in Ludington.

you could look east word and see trains lined up to come into the yeard. Your layout will be awesome

Good afternoon Rick

Nothing special all from the local hardware store. A piano hinge, heavy duty fixed casters and a cabinet latch that draws it up tight(optional). I can post some photo's if you like.

Clem k

Good afternoon Mark

You can do it it's easier than it looks. Just think of it as another module only with a hinge.

Clem k 

Yes, Clem....please post some photos.  Thank you.

Rick

It has been a long time since I have had an update.  Work, kids, the holidays and such all have delayed any start to my layout.  

In the meantime I have set up my old 5x8 train table with a few loops of track.  My kids have had a blast running my old MPC stuff around.  

I have come up with this updated design.  I haven given a lot of thought about the industries on the layout and how it will be ran during a typical operating session.  I plan to use a car/card system with way bills and switch lists.  I haven't hammered out any of those details yet and am hopping to find an android of iPad program to do this.  If not I will do it all on paper.  

I will 2 hidden staging yards.  One for the tracks heading to Ludington and one of the tracks heading to Grand Haven.  I will have the ability to stage trains until they are needed.  I am hopping one operating session will last several hours for 1 or 2 people with the ability to run it in half hour segments over a period of several days.  

Industries on the layout will be: (Industries are Numbered in Red)

1) The Great Lakes Car Ferry and the yard that serves her.  The car ferry typically will make 4 round trips a day.  Since she is smaller then the other ferries on the great lakes she can make about 5 to 8 more knots and provide one extra trip per day.  This will be the main industry on the layout and will handle war time traffic going across Lake Michigan from the factories in Detroit, Chicago, and Grand Rapids.  It will also handle food from the farms in the mid west heading to ports in NYC to head across the Atlantic.

Since she is a small ferry she only holds 10 cars.  The yard that services her only holds 15-18 cars.  Her yard needs to be filled between each trip for cars heading west.  Cars that are unloaded and heading east are built directly into a train and moved to a larger yard off the layout immediately after unloading.  Each car needs to be loaded into position on her by their weight so the car ferry is loaded evenly and doesn't list to either side.  

2) A small auto parts factory that is in war time production to build parts for the plans and bombers.  Again these will travel across the lake to factories in Chicago and other industrial cities for final assembly.  Most of the cars from this factory will be 40 foot steel box cars but a occasional 50 foot Dbl Door box car will be used.  The factory produces about 2 40 foot cars per day of production and requires a delivery of 2 cars a day for parts.  They typically unload the parts for the next days production before 1st shift arrives, and builds their gizmos all day and are reloaded onto the same cars after 2nd shift leaves.  Over night the 2 cars are picked up and 2 new cars are delivered for the next days work.  

3) A Grain elevator.  This mostly handles beans from the Michigan Bean Co.  These will be loaded onto double sheathed box cars to be sent to factories to be canned for the troops overseas. 

4) A grist mill.  This will not have a direct link to the railroad as it doesn't have enough production but they do their part for the war effort and send a box car load every week or so to the food factories.  Their load will be loaded onto a double sheathed box car that will be parked over night next to the train station.  Typically this will happen on Tuesday nights and be picked up Wed morning to be shipped across Lake Michigan on the 1st car ferry trip of the day.

5) A train station.  This will handle ever day travel along with commuter traffic to and from factories in the big city of Grand Rapids, K-zoo, Battle Creek, and more.  It also handles troops heading to the ports on the east coast for deployment.  Some troops come across the lake on the car ferry. About once a day some passenger train is parked at the car ferry yard for loading. The troops come off the car ferry and are loaded directly onto the passenger cars heading for Grand Rapids, where they catch larger troop trains heading to the ports.  

6) The locomotive engine shed, water tower and coal loading area.  The 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 must be fueled, watered, and sanded every few hours depending on their work load.  Typically the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 share duties of loading and unloading the car ferry and working the yard to sort cars by weight to be loaded onto the ferry.  Only the 0-8-0 can handle a train load of cars and if the 10 wheeler is on passenger duty it will pull a full train of about 10 to 12 cars to Grand Haven's interchange with the Pere Marquette Railroad, a 22 mile round trip.  

7) Coal loads delivered to the car ferry.  It takes about 4 full 2 bay coal hoppers to power the car ferry across the lake and back.  It will fuel on the Michigan side only so 4 hoppers are sent every trip to be loaded.  After  the cars are unloaded from their trip across the lake the locomotive will push all 4 cars onto the center left track of the car ferry using 4 idler cars.  The hoppers will be positioned over the grates in the floor and the load will be dropped into the coal hold.  After the ferry is fueled it will be loaded for its next trip across the lake.  

I am working on claiming the land where the closet sits.  I am going to propose that I build a new closet in the basement in the storage room if I can tear down the closet in the layout room.  This would give me way more real estate.