TIMESAVER: A Tribute to John Allen

My last layout was an 11x4 switching layout that was loosely based on The Timesaver.

Tom 

Got one of those built into my logging railroad:

here's everything about switching layouts...http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

howard

Excellent idea for shows, John!  Yes I remember seeing the original John Allen Timesaver in print with track plan and a photograph of John and 3 or 4 guys switching or looking on, seems to be in a sun room in John's house.  I recall reading in MR or RMC a tribute to John after hiss passing when in high school.

I built a similar affair with HO track to try out On30 trains in my slow jump from HO to O gauge.  I never thought to take a photograph, because I never thought I would ever want to show anyone.  One thing I learned was that switching layouts weren't for me.  I preferred a train run with a few sidings along the way.  There is something for everyone.

Tom and Samparfitt, yours look great!  Sawdust43, nice Website Link!!  I first tried the Inglebrook shown on the site before building a Timesaver.

sawdust43 posted:

here's everything about switching layouts...http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

howard

I read the article and it had interesting and inspiring concepts for application to large layouts as well.  For instance I have designated certain businesses on my layout that require ice to refrigerate brewery product and agricultural equipment and produce.  My card system incorporates operations to juggle cars (empties and full) from the businesses in an area in town and eventually to a yard, where they are added to trains for distant destinations.  My operations are very slowly evolving.  I have not yet completed my first of six sessions.  I have found that the switching portion of my sessions becomes a little tedious after a while.  Nonetheless, the creativity and imagination of others is inspiring.

John C. posted:

 

Everyone really liked and enjoyed this switching challenge!  I'm planning a future submission for a feature article in OGR. 

That looks great and it's a good idea too, and does look like fun. Can you post a couple more pics? That is if possible without messing up your plans for an article...Which I will be looking forward to seeing in OGR Magazine! That is a good topic for an OGR article too, IMO. Good luck with it (and the sooner the better! ). 

I might do as Mark says above and try it in HO or something smaller to start. That's a good idea too. Would also give me an excuse for that DCC system I have been wanting.  (And the switch and track expense would be much less in HO, allowing more for DCC system. )

The link above posted by Sawdust43 looks neat too. Looks like it might even explain how to work these things for us prototypically challenged folks (me anyway).

Nice to see another Time Saver come to life. It's one of those plans I have always loved since the 70's. I really don;t care what scale or guage it's in, it's just a cool problem. 

Forumite Leighline brings one to the Allentown show every now and then...

This is a version of Time Saver that I built in O gauge back in 2012. I am very impressed that you were able to pull it off @16 lbs. Mine is more like 40 lbs. 

Mine is 32"x144".

Next year, I plan to add a switch (like the original) to allow this layout to tie into a main layout.

Note the "switch to nowhere" on the top right in the picture of a surviving original above.

That one looks great, Tom!!

Tom your version looks fantastic! Yes mine weighs significantly less and that was definitely intentional. My sole purpose and primary goal was to be able to transport it to various train shows and train events in the Central Indiana area. I will run it at my house too. But I was going to make certain that I could move it all by myself and all--including engine, cars, buildings, transformer, DCS System, all at one time! I have this wonderful red metal rolling cart with three total shelves. The layout sits on the top shelf. The bottom two shelves each have one large plastic bucket that is filled with the above listed items. It's one neat unit that I can easily roll in or out of anywhere all by myself.

To the other poster about who suggested about making a video, I want to do that but right now I am going to wait for reasons I can't disclose at this particular moment. At some point there will be a video.

It looks like you are using ore cars. Brilliant for a down-sized TimeSaver! As you know the key is fitting the correct number of cars on each siding.

Are you using Kaydee couplers? They should work much better than the big claw couplers. That's why I use the beefy GarGraves bumpers. They give me something real solid to push against to get the couplers closed.

When you look at the original, there was zero ground cover, scenery, or buildings. I think buildings add a nice touch giving the cars a destination. I do like your use of a background. That would be a nice addition to mine.

I have mine setup to run DCS Remote Commander w/ a Z1000 transformer. It works very well. My biggest issue is the arcing on the rails (pitting) when people (including myself) forget to throw the switch.

Gilly

Gilly@N&W posted:

It looks like you are using ore cars. Brilliant for a down-sized TimeSaver! As you know the key is fitting the correct number of cars on each siding.

Are you using Kaydee couplers? They should work much better than the big claw couplers. That's why I use the beefy GarGraves bumpers. They give me something real solid to push against to get the couplers closed.

When you look at the original, there was zero ground cover, scenery, or buildings. I think buildings add a nice touch giving the cars a destination. I do like your use of a background. That would be a nice addition to mine.

I have mine setup to run DCS Remote Commander w/ a Z1000 transformer. It works very well. My biggest issue is the arcing on the rails (pitting) when people (including myself) forget to throw the switch.

Gilly

Tom I am using the regular standard couplers. Fortunately, these or cars have a tab on the couplers that you just simply push down to release. Of course I'm using full-blown DCS so I have control of the engines couplers. For my bumpers, I'm using gargraves track. I take off two of the wooden ties and pile them on top of each other and then use screws to hold them in place. They are sufficiently strong to stop anything from running off the end of the track and actually help the cars couple. The cars are just not heavy enough to stay in place when the engine bumps into them for the coupler to engage. I just gently back them into the bumper and everything couples! John Allen would have been thrilled if he would have had these tabs and automatic uncoupling by the engine because you can couple or uncouple absolutely anywhere and use no magnets! Nice simple and easy. That's what I was going for. Thank you for the compliment about the backdrop. I know the backdrop is incredibly simple. A layout does not look finished to me unless it has a backdrop. I also went crazy and actually weathered the track because I just couldn't stand it. I am very seriously considering putting down ballast and putting down like gravel inbetween the rails and adding some bushes or something like that just to give it a little life. I know that was not John Allen's intention or purpose.

Actually I consider My Time Saver and extension of the glacier Gravel Company. I want to paint a model copy of the glacier Gravel Company on the backdrop.

Here a few more pictures of the TimeSaver from about 2012......

This is me.....about 30lbs heavier......

This little boy really gets it......Look at how pleased Tom (Gilly) looks!

John.....the picture of John Allen's original TimeSaver that Gilly posted above can be visited.......I took that picture at the San Diego RR Museum and display layouts in Balboa Park, San Diego.

Peter

This is something I've actually never heard about until now. I suppose it is probably because I was 2 years old when John Allen passed away and most likely never saw the articles that were out there about stuff like this.

Thanks so much for sharing this. I have never built anything like this in any scale and have never tried to work this out. Hmm, might have to give it a go someday.

Dave,

If you are interested, here are a couple links to some John Allen material in print.

https://kalmbachhobbystore.com...al-download/mrpdf040

https://kalmbachhobbystore.com...al-download/mrpdf031

It looks like the large paperback book they did on him back in the early '80s is out of print.  It tells more than you would ever want to know.

Great layout! Goes to show what you can do with O gauge in a small space.
I actually came up with a plan for a 30" door I took out last year. I'm saving the door for "one day". My wife saw it in the garage the other day and when I told her why I'm saving it I got "the look"

Bob, The plan is good.  Yes, I just used the switches I had on hand when I tried it in HO, actually I was running On30 equipment.  The sidings swung out in different directions, but the operational results were the same.  I am using an old door for my workbench right now.  I could look at three quarters of the stuff in our garage right now and give my wife, daughter, and mother-in-law "the look"!    It does work both ways.    However, I don't say a word.  

Awesome stuff. You know, I do remember thumbing through MR in my much younger days and I did see one of these as a layout, but I thought to myself, "how would you even get this to work switching stuff back and forth, you won't get anything done". Ah, the naivety of youth.

About doors, yeah, they are very useful for so many things. About the " look", it does work both ways but you need to use the Scooby-Doo look back. That would be the "I don't get it Shaggy".

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Awesome stuff. You know, I do remember thumbing through MR in my much younger days and I did see one of these as a layout, but I thought to myself, "how would you even get this to work switching stuff back and forth, you won't get anything done". Ah, the naivety of youth.

About doors, yeah, they are very useful for so many things. About the " look", it does work both ways but you need to use the Scooby-Doo look back. That would be the "I don't get it Shaggy".

  Very true!!  

I've got plenty of ammo to send back in the other direction but as the great George Carlin once said....

"Did you ever notice how your stuff is stuff and other peoples stuff is crap"

As an FYI, a key item that makes TimeSaver "work", is the size of the sidings. Each should hold the cars as shown on the attached diagram plus engine.

Per the original rules, you start with 5 cars and switch them to 5 destination tracks. The first variation is to do it in the shortest time. The second is to do it in the fewest moves. There are numerous other variations. 

Not to be one of those know it all critics, but the door panel plan is missing the switchback track.  

I do like the addition of another track for more action. 

Though I find the Timesaver and interesting game, I actually prefer the more-prototypical Inglenook puzzle. Depending on the size of your turnouts and rolling stock, it can be built in a 5-3-3 configuration in 10-12 feet in length and about 24" wide, depending on the length of the equipment involved.

Prototype examples:

Gilly@N&W posted:

As an FYI, a key item that makes TimeSaver "work", is the size of the sidings. Each should hold the cars as shown on the attached diagram plus engine.

Per the original rules, you start with 5 cars and switch them to 5 destination tracks. The first variation is to do it in the shortest time. The second is to do it in the fewest moves. There are numerous other variations. 

I seen this diagram many times. It is interesting. It is helpful. I don't know who came up with it. But it is not correct. On the run around track, if you look at John Allen's or Russ Cain's twin, you can see that the distance of the run-around is equal on both sides. You can put two pieces of Rolling Stock on either side of it. I have studied and studied that diagram trying to figure out how they determined that one car went on one of the tracks and two of the cars went on the other of the tracks when the tracks are absolutely the same identical length.

RSJB18 posted:

I've got plenty of ammo to send back in the other direction but as the great George Carlin once said....

"Did you ever notice how your stuff is stuff and other peoples stuff is crap"

Yes, and a very fond fan of George. Back in the early 90's, my brother and I drove our late mother to her sister's in VA. Mom didn't much like our music, so I put in George Carlin. After that, every trip we made she would demand at least two of his CD's on the ride down and back up.

Good topic John. I meant to reply earlier.

The time saver is what really changed my thinking about layouts and design. I've always loved trains, but in my early teens, back in the 70's, I attended a show, where a guy had one. I fell in love with that thing, and hovered around it watching other people try it. Then I took a turn. From that point on, whenever nobody was using it, I was there perfecting my moves and time. 

The time saver also appeals to my love of problem solving. I've even incorporated a tight switching location into my current layout at Red Wing.

Here's the punchline: The guy who owned the time saver that got me hooked (my mentor as it were) came over to my open house a couple years ago, and fell in love with my layout, but more specifically he was really anxious to try his hand at Red Wing. We had come full circle. I have to call Gary.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Good topic John. I meant to earlier.

The time saver is what really changed my thinking about layouts and design. I've always loved trains, but in my early teens, back in the 70's, I attended a show, where a guy had one. I fell in love with that thing, and hovered around it watching other people try it. Then I took a turn. From that point on, whenever nobody was using it, I was there perfecting my moves and time. 

The time saver also appeals to my love of problem solving. I've even incorporated a tight switching location into my current layout at Red Wing.

Here's the punchline: The guy who owned the time saver that got me hooked (my mentor as it were) came over to my open house a couple years ago, and fell in love with my layout, but more specifically he was really anxious to try his hand at Red Wing. We had come full circle. I have to call Gary.

That's a really neat story Elliott! Thanks for sharing.

I almost forgot, but Tom's layout reminded me. I did a simpler version of the time saver at a show back in 2005. That was a fun show. I let the kids run it. The show's promoter said it it was the most popular display. Unfortunately, that was the last show I ever did, too much work.

That is a neat one, Elliot!  Yes I can see setting up and working a show is a lot of work.  I really appreciate all the guys who take the time to bring layouts, modules, and Timesaver like setups to shows.  I like to support them anyway I can.  

At one point in time in an old, old MR, I read that there was a practical application for the "switch to nowhere". 

After John's passing, some of his crew came up with the idea to connect two timesavers back to back using that switch. There were additional rules involving passing one car to the other layout. You had to coordinate with your "competitor" for passing the car to them while still trying to beat them on time. 

I once had a very rough nscale timesaver that was the back half of an n-trak module. 

Thanks john and Mark.

A few footnotes to my previous posts:

• For that show, I used the Lionel couplers and electromagnets. They worked really well. No need for Kadees there. Granted, the cars were hand picked Lionel so they worked well together.
• I still have the "portable" layout, and I might be interested in getting back into doing shows, but someone needs to be the muscle. It would be great if I could find a scout group or something. I'd love to share my knowledge and experience with the next generation.
• Those two kids in that picture with the "younger" me were my best "customers". The older one in the snoopy shirt, reminded me of me, when I discovered the time saver, only younger. He was a natural with the cab-1.
• The track plan for that show was only about a half a time saver, but it showed the basic concept of facing and trailing point switching, and the use of a runaround.
• I suppose I could have made the switching more complicated, but I only owned eight 072 switches for the layout. Two were used for a passing siding on a separate loop. Two formed the runaround for the switching area. Two came off the runaround going into the spurs, and one was used to create a third spur. That left one spare, oh well. 

Greg Nagy posted:

At one point in time in an old, old MR, I read that there was a practical application for the "switch to nowhere". 

After John's passing, some of his crew came up with the idea to connect two timesavers back to back using that switch. There were additional rules involving passing one car to the other layout. You had to coordinate with your "competitor" for passing the car to them while still trying to beat them on time. 

 

I once had a very rough nscale timesaver that was the back half of an n-trak module. 

Here is a link that shows an article in a 1976 Model Railroader that has the two Timesavers connected together.  I used to have that magazine issue; I started getting MR back in the late '60s.  I was thinking in the Lynn Westcott book, there was a photograph of John with some guys with two Timesavers connected, but it may be this photograph instead.  My copy of the Westcott book is packed away right now.   http://www.wymann.info/Shuntin...es/sw-timesaver.html

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Thanks john and Mark.

A few footnotes to my previous posts:

• For that show, I used the Lionel couplers and electromagnets. They worked really well. No need for Kadees there. Granted, the cars were hand picked Lionel so they worked well together.
• I still have the "portable" layout, and I might be interested in getting back into doing shows, but someone needs to be the muscle. It would be great if I could find a scout group or something. I'd love to share my knowledge and experience with the next generation.
• Those two kids in that picture with the "younger" me were my best "customers". The older one in the snoopy shirt, reminded me of me, when I discovered the time saver, only younger. He was a natural with the cab-1.
• The track plan for that show was only about a half a time saver, but it showed the basic concept of facing and trailing point switching, and the use of a runaround.
• I suppose I could have made the switching more complicated, but I only owned eight 072 switches for the layout. Two were used for a passing siding on a separate loop. Two formed the runaround for the switching area. Two came off the runaround going into the spurs, and one was used to create a third spur. That left one spare, oh well. 

Forum member Andy Hummell of the Pittsburgh Independent Hirailers (This year's MTH Blue Comet award winning club)told me it doesn't take long for the group to do the 'standard' setup with a half dozen guys.  Their Kennywood Park Christmas setup takes a lot longer, over a period of more than one day.  Of course they swap off taking turns with duties.  

The point being, yes you would need muscle to help you transport, setup and even attend the Timesaver when you need to use the restroom, etc.  Interacting with the visitors is the easy part I would think, but tiring I'm sure for those of us getting older or having health issues.

Many modular groups create terrific scenes on their modules.  A time saver incorporated in one of them would be an interesting addition.  I have a version of the old MR plan Gum Stump and Snowshoe incorporated into my layout.  Not as challenging as a time saver but it provides scenic and operating interest.

I figured and figured but I could not come up with a way to fit a "timesaver" into my layout design. It takes more space than it first appears. So I was disappointed. I still enjoy reading about John Allen's work with the marvelous writing of Linn Westcott and track planning by John Armstrong. In terms of model railroad authorship, their era was truly "golden". Teimesaver is a wonderful Allen legacy.

Don Merz

Just for the fun and interest, I put together a time-saver using FasTrack, and using the FasTrack remote uncouplers.   Shown are more uncouplers than generally used in recognition that our claw couplers are not as flexible as Kadee-style couplers, but this does not change the game parameters.   All of the car-length sections are sized for 40' scale cars and a diesel switcher.   This fits in 2' by 9'3".

Using TMCC/Legacy the turnouts can be controller remotely, as can the remote uncouplers using one of the other TMCC/Legacy components (my understanding, have not actually done this).   I think it might be more fun to control everything from one remote.

The red dots are the center of the FasTrack 5" uncoupling tracks, and I have shown lighted FasTrack bumpers.  Turnouts are O72 and one O72 'Y'.   There are three broad curved sections: one full size O72, one half-O72, and one half-size O84 so that couplers will tend to be centered over the track for coupling.   -Ken

Ken,

Thanks for posting a FasTrack timesaver, this one really looks good. I really like that you were able to incorporate uncoupling track sections. I will have to look at this in more detail. I have a version of the timesaver on my small layout but you have so much more in same area.  I would like to reconfigure mine now. You always have great track plans.

Thanks,

-Tom

John C,

Thanks for starting this thread. Wonderful contributions from all who have replied. Great ideas here.

Many thanks to all.

-Tom