To Switch to LED Overhead Lighting Or Not?

I just purchased a LED tube for my shop.  Lighting is kind of harsh.  OK for my shop but I wouldn't want it over my layout.  I have florescent's on the layout now.  Maybe you have to shop around for LED tubes with layout pleasing color temperatures.

Leds come in a wide range of sizes and applications.   Browse the web for some commercial conversion kits.  Even the drop in florescent sized led tubes are very bright.   My street lights were replaced years ago and they are very bright.  Our plant has retrofitted to LEDs and they are pretty small and very bright.  The LED grow light (about10 in by 14 in) I picked up to cannibalize for parts will practically blind you.   Its much brighter than anticipated and I havent figured out what to do with it yet.

I bought my replacement bulbs from hyperikon.com.  They are single ended meaning only the tombstones at one end are wired.  120/110 v 

I’m quite satisfied with the brightness.

Larry

Hi guys,

How many lumens are your LEDs rated at?

Thanks,

Ed

I replaced fluorescent with led lights.   I have a frosted covering below the fixture and it was a tremendous increase in lighting.   I did not find the led lights to be too bright.  No flickering or ballast to replace.  They do come in a dimmable mode also at a slightly higher cost.

Marty

I've replaced all of the 4 ft fluorescent tube "shop lights" in my woodshop (aka a single car detached garage) with LED tubes.  The tubes I used - all made by FEIT (I think) - were purchased at Costco and they are direct replacements - meaning they use the existing ballasts so it was just a matter of taking out the old fluorescent tubes and putting these in.  I don't know for certain, but I think some of the shop light fixtures are old enough that I'd be surprised if some of them were not magnetic ballasts - but everything seems to work and the shop is a lot brighter.  I did not have any covers on the bulbs so breaking a fluorescent tube was something I worried a bit about - now with the LED's, that worry is off the list.  I've also purchased - also from Costco (with which I have no ties except being a member) - a couple of the 4 ft. "shop" fixtures that come with the LED tubes, etc.  (also FEIT)

The tubes are rated ~1750 lumens (each) and the color temperature is ~4000K - which is cool (ish) white.  For my shop its great to have more light (aging eyes).  My recollection is that the complete fixtures I mentioned above are in the vicinity of 3500-3800 lumens.

There are LED tubes that contain the electronics to rectify and step down the 120 VAC - which means that you need to remove the ballasts and rewire the fixture (and install the label that says you did that).  There are now, very recently, tubes that can be used in either mode - meaning that you can use the tube until the ballast goes, then rewire and still use the same tube.  There's a chain store (maybe just CA or the west coast) called Batteries and More (IIRC) that has these LED tubes, as well as the straight replacement tubes.  Last time I looked their prices were a bit higher than Costco -- what I don't remember is whether they had a broader selection of color temps.  Given what I was doing, the FEIT tubes have worked great.  It might be worth looking at their website to see if they have other color temp choices.   BTW, at Costco a two-pack of tubes is ~$15.

- Rich

I just changed out for leds .. have track lighting,think the affect is better than flour.lighting , approx. 18 . mixed it up from 2700 to 4500 color temp., equvi.to 60 w i like the affect.Used dimmable ,also noticed my dimmer switches , are not warm to the touch,anymore.

rich b

The diffusers on my fixtures are clear plastic.  Would it be advisable to have "frosted" LEDs to tone down the brightness?

My original thought was that the LED's were not bright enough but that may not be the case.

Ed

Ed - the LED replacement tubes I have - and the ones I have seen - all have a frosted surface on the plastic cylindrical tube in which the LEDs sit.  The top half of the cylinder (for something like a shop light where the light shines down) is white and opaque, while the bottom half is frosted and translucent. Frosted enough so when you look at the tube itself you don't see the individual LEDs in the string.   I don't think you will have to worry about the LED tubes not being bright enough.  You mentioned in your OP that the fluorescents have 2950 lumens - presumably that's for both tubes together.  The LEDs I mentioned earlier have about 20% more lumen output (~3500 for two tubes).  I just looked at the Feit website https://www.feit.com/ and they do make 3000K and 5000K tubes and some of them seem to have closer to 1800 to 1900 lumen outputs (per tube).

Besides the benefits of providing greater light output and energy savings (and no hum) they have between 30,000 and 50,000 hours service life (at 3 h/day every day, that's 27 to 45 years - longer than most of us occupy a single house!  One other note, these are sized to replace T-8 or T-12 fluorescent tubes

I just switched to LED shop lights in my train room and love em. Much brighter, but I have incandescent spot lights which add warmth to the around the wall layout.

In a train room where fluorescent fixtures are located over the layout in places changing tubes or ballast can be awkward  - especially as one gets older.  One lobe of my railroad is centered under several 4 lamp 4' troffer style fixtures.  Before scenicing the area I decided to convert the fixtures to 3500k LED tubes.  From a power feed perspective, there are at least 3 different design approaches.  Some require no rewiring at all, some require replacing the old "tombstone" tube holders with non-shorting ones, some require no change to the fixture other than rewiring to bypass the ballast.  I chose the latter style to eliminate ballast as a point of failure.  The lumen output is slightly less than the old fluorescent tubes but the trade off for virtually maintenance free energy efficient operation is one I'd make any day.   I still have a large number of fixtures to convert to LED's in other areas of the train room but am approaching those incrementally as LED prices continue to fall.  

I had some distinct advantages when I decided to start a new O-Gauge train layout.  A basement, w/ high 9' ceiling, "brick-pattern" poured walls, I had painted the walls white, and the floor grey.  The painted walls and floor were originally to hold down dust.

When I decided to start a layout about 4 years after move-in, I asked my brother-in-law to assist and we put in lighting and power before the tables were installed.

We put in two 8' fluorescent fixtures over the layout then 8 "tracks" with (what became) some 30 "heads" on a 1000-watt dimmer (the original 500-watt dimmer got too hot for my liking).  The lighting heads are all conventional 20W each spotlights - so 20w X 30 healds= 600 watts= explanation of the overheating. 

I can use the fluorescent fixtures as "work on the layout" lighting, then the tracks when running trains and especially to display the trains and layout.  I like it!!

The amount of energy used by equivalent LED lights is about 8 times less.  That 75 watt incandescent flood lamp can be replaced with an LED that consumes about 10 watts.  Huge savings. IMO.  There is an assortment of lamps/lamp colors, most available from large displays at most big box stores. I recently replaced all the exterior lights at our Church with LED fixtures. 

Note that LED fixtures/lamps and dimmers are a bit different and require additional research, IMO.  Lamps are usually marked "dimmable" and would require an LED dimmer. 

Downside to LED light fixtures. If and when they stop working, there is no repair/only replacement. 

LED flat panels are an interesting advent of new design lighting.   Usually these light panels are less than the thickness of standard acoustical ceiling grid, using a lot less energy, can easily be adapted to existing lighting power systems.

2 ft X 2 ft LED fixture.

Yellow cord was added.  Other than checking wire connections in the driver box, lower part of the picture, there is no service or maintenance.  If it works, you are probably good for 50,000 hrs.  Doesn't work, requires a replacement fixture.   

Quickly changing technology, we have been told, fixture styles and models were obsolete, when we attempted to replace fixtures that did not work, part of a new, in the box, light fixture order.      

Fixture pictured, is dimmable, but requires a low voltage dimming system, and additional wiring to the driver box, from the dimmer location.   Marked on the box, 0 to 10 volt dimming.  

Often with larger lighting installations, an architect/or lighting design consultant, needs to be involved.

Again, a quickly changing technology. 

Thanks to all.  In addition to reading and rereading your thoughtful responses, I spent over 30 minutes talking with Philips customer service and found an LED that sounds like it will work for me.  It has UPC 471755.  I am going to purchase two of them tomorrow and try them out.  If they do what I think they should do, then I will buy more.  This will be a long term project with only about ten fixtures being replaced in the next few months. The rest will be replaced as they fail.

Thanks again for the very useful information.

Ed

Fluorescent tubes are extremely harmful for your health and your eyes. They have been used all over the world because of their cheap prices, low consumption, availability and disregard for the health of generations of workers (blue and white collars) being bathed in these devices all day long.

LED tubes replacement are way better as they are silent, almost immediate when you turn them on and provide a much more pleasant light to your eyes. However, keep in mind that a white LED is comprised of 3 Red/Blue and Green LEDs finely tuned to give you the white color that you perceive. Contrary to a incandescent bulb or the sun light, the LED light is very focused and specific to these three wavelengths and nothing else. So, your eyes and brain will lack the other wavelengths so useful for your physical and mental health.

It is a good practice to also add some halogen (or other types) incandescent bulbs to provide you with a more "sun" like atmosphere and create the wavelengths/radiations that are missing from the LED, and which are so useful for your mental and physical well-being.

I am not even touching the frequency of oscillation of the LEDs (50 Hertz) that you cannot perceive with your consciousness but that your eyes can see very well (as well as your brain). Slight headaches may be a sign that it is time to go outside or look at the controlled burning of a filament.

Yves

Ed Kelly posted:

Thanks to all.  In addition to reading and rereading your thoughtful responses, I spent over 30 minutes talking with Philips customer service and found an LED that sounds like it will work for me.  It has UPC 471755.  I am going to purchase two of them tomorrow and try them out.  If they do what I think they should do, then I will buy more.  This will be a long term project with only about ten fixtures being replaced in the next few months. The rest will be replaced as they fail.

Thanks again for the very useful information.

Ed

Thanks for the information, would like to see some before/after images if possible.

Looking for some with a CRI of at least 90 and leaning towards the ballast replacement model.

UPDATE: I purchased two of the above mentioned tubes.  They are marked so you can see which end is the HOT end.  How can there be a HOT end when the current is AC and flips polarity 60 times a second?

Thanks,

Ed

They are the kind that don't use the ballast, as they are only powered from the one end. You have to rewire the fixture so the opposite ends are dummy tombstones. They should have instructions for installing.

Ed Kelly posted:

UPDATE: I purchased two of the above mentioned tubes.  They are marked so you can see which end is the HOT end.  How can there be a HOT end when the current is AC and flips polarity 60 times a second?

Thanks,

Ed

Not sure what you have Ed.  Often florescent fixtures have to be rewired to accept new technology.  Even an upgrade to electronic ballast and T8 (skinny) tubes (a change done for energy efficiency several years ago)  requires some wire changing.   Should be instruction with your tubes.   Safety meeting of the day, be careful.    

I've been swapping out my fluorescent over heads for LEDs as the former fail, but I've not bothered with changing bulbs - I just swap out the entire fixture and be done with it - much brighter and clearer in my shop as well as in the layout room.  Can't wait for the next fluorescent unit to fail!

These are the double-ended tubes that do NOT use the ballast.

Hope that clarifies the situation.

Ed

Ed Kelly posted:

These are the double-ended tubes that do NOT use the ballast.

Hope that clarifies the situation.

Ed

Your supplier should be able to link you to information about the tubes and the retro-fit installation, I think. 

If it doesn't use the ballast/the ballast would be removed and the wiring modified. 

The question remains: How can there be a HOT end with AC current?

Ed

From the LED tube number, (UPC 471755), you posted previously, I linked to an upgrade kit that bi-passes the ballast and applies 110 volts to the appropriate tube ends.    Also note that the upgrade kit has an in-line fuse, and a modular plug end/disconnect that is common in most newer florescent fixtures.   There should be instruction with this upgrade kit.   

You may want to get local help, beyond this forum.   IMO.  Mike CT.  

The hot end has two prongs, just like a wall plug. The prongs on the other end are not connected to anything. They just hold that end of the light up.

John H posted:

The hot end has two prongs, just like a wall plug. The prongs on the other end are not connected to anything. They just hold that end of the light up.

Requires a wiring change to the florescent fixture to use these tubes. 

I did mention rewiring in my first post. My lights came with a kit and instructions. Most electrical suppliers sell a separate kit, also.

I have 14 fluros in my room and no money so I guess I'm stuck with poor eyesight and bad health at least my liver, lungs and heart seem OK so maybe it's not all doom and gloom, When I stop posting I'm dead ! Roo.

Thanks to all who responded.  

Ed

What is a tombstone in fluorescent light fixtures ?

Thanks to all posters on this thread !!!

Lighting technology continues to change, during the three years since this thread was started.  Recently, much of what was repair-able in my home, (Change tubes, changes ballast, occasionally  replace a broken tube end), Parts, (correct parts) are hard to find.  The lighting world is quickly changing.

@Mike CT posted:

Lighting technology continues to change, during the three years since this thread was started.  Recently, much of what was repair-able in my home, (Change tubes, changes ballast, occasionally  replace a broken tube end), Parts, (correct parts) are hard to find.  The lighting world is quickly changing.

Mike, it seems you can't get replacement parts for many things, like hose for our vacuum cleaner. And our trains.😁

when I started replacing light bulbs with LED bulbs, I wrote the month and year on the bulb with a black market.  I am starting to replace LED  flood lights in my kitchen and hallways  that were installed in 2018.  I was hoping for 10 years, not 4. 

I had six incandescent ceiling fixtures in my basement and replaced all of them with these when Costco had them on sale for $39 for the 2-pack:

https://www.costco.com/3-panel...oduct.100688345.html

Super bright

John

@CBQ_Bill posted:

What is a tombstone in fluorescent light fixtures ?

Thanks to all posters on this thread !!!

The tombstone mentioned is the piece that the lighting tube mounts to.

My LED tubes over the layout have been in for four to five years and still going strong. As far as it has been mentioned that the lighting is harsh, that would depend on the color you order, warm white is not a harsh light colored, as far as brightness the ones that I purchased were lower lumens that the tubes they replaced but just as bright, go figure.

Ray

If you're switching over to LED'S from Fluorescent Lamps and using Dimable LED'S, make sure you change your wall dimmer switch to a newer Electronic Dimmer or it may not work right. As for Ed's question about a Hot side, all 120 AC Voltage (and other Voltages) units are wired in regards to a Hot ( usually Black) and Neutral side (White) because in your Main Electrical Panel your White Neutral Wire and Ground Wires are connected for safety to protect you in case you short across the wires it's a path to ground. Safety first everyone!