Track selections advise

You will get many answers, I am sure.  Here's mine:

I chose FasTrack, because I wanted simplicity and reliability, and the hobby shop told me that there are pluses and minuses for every one, and that Lionel was the biggest name in the business. 

As I was putting together the layout- I found frustrations with the poor contact between track sections, to the point where I would tweak 100% of the connections per Mike Reagan's fix, found on YouTube:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH27b0hmkdI

I have had ONE switch that fails to light (might be a wiring mistake on me that I have just not taken the time to fix) and one that has worn out/ would not maintain position and allows derailments).

Otherwise fine.  I don't think that any other switches/ turnouts will work w/ FasTrack.  I also think that any other system would probably have been as expensive or more.  I think that others would also have had issues- I just don't know from experience.

 first off understand pre molded track be it lionel fast track or mth version of it have one big flaw they create noise under the simulated roadbed.

we are a diverse group so some like all ross track and switches some use all gargraves track switches as well as gargraves flex track others like the atlas track and switches.

in my experience I found I could always get ross switches when I needed them also his tracks be straight or curved. I also can get gargraves tracks be it curved straight and the flex track.

I have found flex track to be a valuable asset in layout building as you can use all the software to plan a layout and all connects on paper but sometimes not often but at times when things do not line up this is where flex track shines brightly as you can within reason shape it to connect the tracks together. I seem to remember that some of the other makers of tracks and switches are not always readily available as in not in stock or waiting for manufacturer to make more in a few months or a year at a time so this would be my suggestion to you call talk to local hobby shops or call ross or gargraves lionel mth and whomever has what you need that is available in whatever quantity you need right now that will give you an idea of what to expect.

I think most track can be connected together be it fast track to gargraves or ross track not positive on atlas or mth am sure others can provide a more accurate rendering if all manufacturers track will interconnect with each other.

lastly remember this shy away from what is known as spaghetti trackage the old rule of less is more works well as having tracks everywhere but no place for freight to be set out or picked up or a passenger train that never arrives at a station well you then have to revert to the 1950's day dreaming experience of a loop of track that went to places all in ones mind. also sometimes what we see on paper once on the layouts table top not as appealing I have found that I set tracks on top of where I think it would look good and study it off and on as sometimes a light bulb comes on to a better way to do it and leaves more room for scenery a building or? just sharing some thoughts on this part lessons learned after multiple layouts built and undone each time with less tracks involved and seeing a more realistic layout. and when you find at times your frustrated with things not going right on layout a time out works well and usually whatever the frustration was you figure out the cure in a relaxed mood.

hope this helps you some on what to use and how to decide on tracks and switches the one thing I have found out is tortoise switch machines are the cadillac's of switch machines hands down in 18 years I have had zero issues with them but to each there own.

What is your realism goal? How quickly do you want to have an operating layout? What's the longest equipment you're going to use? How much is noise a problem? Are you going to ballast? Do you care if the rails are shiny or look realistically rusted? All of these answers can lead you to a solution.

The most realistic would be MTH Real Track, followed by Atlas and then Ross. I have an all Ross layout with 30 switches using Z-Stuff switch machines. The switch machines are good, but they're delicate. Ross track has wooden ties and each tie is spiked. When the rails are painted and ballasted it looks pretty much as good as 3-rail layouts can look… if you're striving for realism. That realism comes with more work. You need to hand solder all the power hookups. On the other end of the Spectrum is FastTrack where all the electrical connections are plug and play. The rail is not T-shaped (Ross actually is as is Atlas a Real Track). You can actually run scale wheel flanges on Ross track but you need to modify the switch frogs so the wheels don't fall too deeply into the switch and derail.

As noted before, rails on molded plastic fake ballast is going to be noisy. You can abate that somewhat by mounting on some kind foam sub-roadbed. I have my Ross glued to Flexibed vinyl. You glue, not screw to the layout since the screws can convey the sound directly to the layout just like the bridge on a guitar. Gluing interrupts that sound path. Even so, big trains make noise.

yanksali posted:

sectional  vs flexible tracks - which is better to use 

what manufacturer’s  turnouts to use 

cost factor- which manufacturer’s tracks are more expensive than another 

Can you mix different tracks from manufacturers on the same line - in other words can you use Lionel  fastrack On one portion of a line and another brand on a different portion such as a portion less visible to save costs - are adapters sold? 

Any advice based on your experience is  greatly appreciated 

Sectional vs flex, I use both.  My layout used 3 cases of GarGraves 37" straights and sectional curves from 081-0138,

I found GarGraves flex to be the easiest to use. Atlas has flex track, but it is very stiff.

GarGraves is the only one I found with SS rails and wood ties. For me, that was a key for my attic layout.

Ross track has spiked wood ties and looks great. Rossbed is available for Ross and Atlas track. We use it on all of the track and switches on the club's modular layout.

Turnouts     Ross Custom Switches. Great availability (made in USA), best selection, and they work. For track w/ molded roadbed FasTrack switches are good.

Yes you can mix track. GarGraves and Ross use the same track pins. As for adaptors, yes you can get them. For example I use GarGraves 5 rail track on a bridge. That track is connected to Atlas.

You didn't ask, but FasTrack is NOISEY. I can only assume that MTH Realtrax is as well.

Train man ..  Nice layout!    I have to agree with most folks.   If you look at all the super nice high end layouts, most of them use Gargraves track and Ross Switches.  That being said If I had done that.  All of my track would have had to be ordered.  We have two hobby shops in our area.   One sells no O gauge track and the other only sells Fastrack.   So always keep that in mind. 

Another point is since I had a few starter sets with Fastrack I figured I would use it.   Its been great and Ive had no problems.  But sometimes I wish I had used the Gargraves/Ross combination.    Now I am thinking about trying some switching operations.  I only use manual switches. And dont care for the FT switch set up..  And I dont think the toggle type seen on most switching layouts can be used with FT.     Just some things to think about before deciding.

Jim

You can easily use SPDT momentary toggles with Fastrack. The best part is that they are nonderailing whether they are powered or not.

carsntrains posted:

Train man ..  Nice layout!    I have to agree with most folks.   If you look at all the super nice high end layouts, most of them use Gargraves track and Ross Switches.  That being said If I had done that.  All of my track would have had to be ordered.  We have two hobby shops in our area.   One sells no O gauge track and the other only sells Fastrack.   So always keep that in mind. 

Another point is since I had a few starter sets with Fastrack I figured I would use it.   Its been great and Ive had no problems.  But sometimes I wish I had used the Gargraves/Ross combination.    Now I am thinking about trying some switching operations.  I only use manual switches. And dont care for the FT switch set up..  And I dont think the toggle type seen on most switching layouts can be used with FT.     Just some things to think about before deciding.

Jim

Here is my two cents worth. I have built a large layout using Gargraves track and switches. Both worked well with little issues.

Currently I have a layout with 2 large MTH ScaleTrax and switches. I love the look of this track, but it has its limitation since it is not compatible to other systems. It is quiet to run on. Switches are not the best.

I run all my other tracks using the good old tubular standard. I use the rubber footprints under them. It is a little expensive and hard to find, but really quiets the sound.

Previously I tried the FastTrack stuff by Lionel but found it extremely noisy and hard to work with. I replaced it all with the above mention tubular track.

If you are looking for a scale look, Gargraves would be my choice. But I enjoy just running trains and operating accessories, which the old tubular track system performs very well at.

Good luck with layout

M14trains

  I was speaking of the manual toggle type switches that flip over and move the sidings points.     Not electric toggles.    The type you see on most HO switching layouts and on the few O gauge switching layouts I'v seen.  Or as some call it a "manually operated ground throw" .   Like this one from Caboose Industries.

Jim

Jim, thanks. I misunderstood the toggle part.

YANKSALI, I used Atlas track and turnouts, but I would recommend Gar Graves (or Ross) track with Ross switches.

Atlas track is super realistic, but the switches do not always like every locomotive, depending on the placement, type, and number of pickup rollers.  I wanted the very realistic look of Atlas, and am willing to work around the issues with the switches.  Not everyone is that willing.

But Gar Graves and Ross look very realistic too.  The ties under the Gar Graves and Ross track are oversized.  However if you paint the rail and use good ballast, everything will look just fine.  You'll never notice the difference.  And Ross Switches work flawlessly.  Ross switches are usually in stock somewhere, and that is also a factor.  You may have to wait for production on other brands.

If you are planning to lay track on green carpet, you don't need to paint it, and Gar Graves and Ross will look great, as will Atlas if you so choose.  But, if you are going to ballast it, I do not recommend using rusty orange colored paint for your rails.  A grey or grey-green color looks more realistic to me.  I used Rust Oleum Camo Green for my main line track and Rust Oleum Camo Brown for yard tracks and spurs.  I did also use different ballast for the yard and spurs.  The track, including all three rails and ties, was painted.  Then, the top of each rail was immediately wiped as clean as possible.  Finally, after the paint dried, the top of each rail was wiped carefully, with a rag dampened with acetone.

Here's the freight house spur, Camo Brown painted rail on a mixture of Brennan's rock and Woodland Scenics fine black cinder ballast: 

I

Here's the main track, painted with Camo Green on Brennan's Better Ballast rock ballast.

A bit off-topic, but still related:  No matter what brand of track you decide to use, it will serve you better if you clean it frequently.  Weekly is not too often, and, if you use smoking engines, clean it after you get ready to shut down the layout after an operating session.  No brand of dirty track will give good service and it will transfer crud onto your wheels too.

If budget was not a factor, I'd be using all Ross sectional track and switches. Ross maintains a level of quality that is tough to argue with. And I prefer sectional because I am lazy and don't want to have to bend all that doggone flex track.

But for me, budget IS a factor. So I mix and match Ross sections and switches with Gargraves flex. My helix (as yet unfinished) will be all Ross sections. I just couldn't face the thought of having to bend all of that flextrack into nice 054 circles!

Lionel tubular track is big fun--emphasis on "big". The fixed geometry of tubular track means you get a lot less layout in the same space. Based on the dimensions you mention, I think standard 031/054/072 tubular track is not an option unless you just want to run a couple loops.

Good luck! Let us know what you come up with and how it works out!

Don

I made an error in my post. The scale version of MTH's track system is Scale Trax not Real Trax. Real Trax is the MTH equivalent of Lionel FastTrack. I have used Gargraves flex track sparingly, but was not good at bending it myself. That being said, the only way to make a nice easement O'gauge curve is either hand-laid track or a flex track.

Easement curves are how it's done in 1:1 world where the curve gradually moves from straight to curve in an ever tightening radius until the final dimension is reached and then the reverse when coming out of the curve to straight. There is an elaborate mathematical solution since you are generating a spiral. With section track, you can simulate this if you have enough room by starting the curve with a wider radius piece then a smaller radius progressing until the final circle size is reached. I tried to design this, but it quickly made the layout too big. In my case I would be starting with an O-120 piece, then a O-112, then O-104 and finally the curve size of O-96 and then spiraling back out. It makes for silky smooth operation since the locos are brought into the turns more gradually.

This illustration was done on CorelDraw and not a RR Track program so the geometry is not perfect, but it gives the idea. It's one way to make more graduated curves using sectional track. Ross gives you lots of diameters to use to make this happen. 

I took some more track work pics since my huge collection didn't have any recent pictures.

Ballast is roofing granules. It's sized almost perfectly for O'scale. It's mildly magnetic so don't use if you have old MagnaTraction equipment.

Yard tracks were embedded in hydrocal so ties were buried and I mixed some dark W-S gravel into the ballast to give it more of a grungy yard look. Ballast is secured with liquid W-S Scenic Cement. Roofing granules are about $20 for 50#. Those broad ballast areas between the switches should have some weeds and maybe puddles.

Trainman2001 posted:

I made an error in my post. The scale version of MTH's track system is Scale Trax not Real Trax. Real Trax is the MTH equivalent of Lionel FastTrack. I have used Gargraves flex track sparingly, but was not good at bending it myself. That being said, the only way to make a nice easement O'gauge curve is either hand-laid track or a flex track.

Easement curves are how it's done in 1:1 world where the curve gradually moves from straight to curve in an ever tightening radius until the final dimension is reached and then the reverse when coming out of the curve to straight. There is an elaborate mathematical solution since you are generating a spiral. With section track, you can simulate this if you have enough room by starting the curve with a wider radius piece then a smaller radius progressing until the final circle size is reached. I tried to design this, but it quickly made the layout too big. In my case I would be starting with an O-120 piece, then a O-112, then O-104 and finally the curve size of O-96 and then spiraling back out. It makes for silky smooth operation since the locos are brought into the turns more gradually.

This illustration was done on CorelDraw and not a RR Track program so the geometry is not perfect, but it gives the idea. It's one way to make more graduated curves using sectional track. Ross gives you lots of diameters to use to make this happen. 

I took some more track work pics since my huge collection didn't have any recent pictures.

Ballast is roofing granules. It's sized almost perfectly for O'scale. It's mildly magnetic so don't use if you have old MagnaTraction equipment.

Yard tracks were embedded in hydrocal so ties were buried and I mixed some dark W-S gravel into the ballast to give it more of a grungy yard look. Ballast is secured with liquid W-S Scenic Cement. Roofing granules are about $20 for 50#. Those broad ballast areas between the switches should have some weeds and maybe puddles.

 

What radius combination did you end up using.   And it seems this would only work on a half circle curve??  If your track pieces would add up to a half circle?  

JIm 

Thanks for all the informative replies. After reading them I cam up with anither question.  Whichever tracks chosen how should i they be affixed, what type of glue, clear silicone, brad nails etc 

Every hobbyist has his/her own track preference and can defend it to the nth degree.  My choice is traditional Lionel O-gauge sectional tubular track without ballast or painted rails laid atop green patio carpeting that covers hollow-core doors as the layout "platforms." My decision was based on psycho-emotional-nostalgic factors.  I wanted to design, build, and operate a midlife echo of my long ago boyhood experience with AF trains and track in the 1940s and 50s with my dad.

When I turned 50 and re-entered the hobby, I adopted Lionel trains and installed O-gauge Lionel sectional track to maintain that 1950s look with O42 minimum radius curves and K-Line O42 low-profile RC switches on the lower level. The upper level is Lionel O27 sectional track for three short trolley lines running alongside 35 DEPT 56 lighted, porcelain buildings from their NORTH POLE VILLAGE series.

Admittedly, I didn't "grow up" and commit to the adult version of the hobby with a detailed (and thus time-consuming and expensive) hi-rail layout. Pix of my L-shaped layout are attached for reference. I believe dad (who is now riding the Celestial Express) would be pleased to see how his early mentoring me in the hobby turned out.

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394
mottlerm@gmail.com

I run conventional postwar, several Lion Chief Plus steamers and an RS-3, a TMCC 773 CC Hudson, an MPC-era GP9, and a 2018 Legacy F7 Set.  So- O Gauge, nothing really large, but I pretty much cover all types of Lionel since the late 1940's.  I only have one MTH- a Commodore Vanderbilt conventional.  Curves are 072 and 060, with a section of 048 under a mountain.

I set the FasTrack on vinyl roadbed, then used #4 X 1" phillips screws through the FastTrack into 5/8" MDF table tops; framing is wood. 

I have 280 feet of running FasTrack track on the main railroad.  I use O gauge tubular track for the coal mine area, and for my power plant yard.  I thought it looked cool and added ties to make it look better as well.  When I build my car storage yard- I will use O27 for a more prototypical look (IF anything in 3-rail is prototypical!!).  I also used O27 for an MTH Bump N Go trolley through my "city".  I also put soldered "drops" about every 2-3 feet.  

ANY O scale equipment is going to be loud on any brand of track with plastic roadbed. FasTrack is not (the way I did it anyway) objectionable to me from a noise standpoint.  The switches are reliable- as I said only 1, after three years, stopped tracking accurately, so I just replaced it.

yanksali posted:

 Whichever tracks chosen how should i they be affixed, what type of glue, clear silicone, brad nails etc 

I use track screws. My preference are Atlas 6094 because they are smaller. I have also used GarGraves 809-2. When using wood ties, I drill a small pilot hole. Once the track is ballasted (and the ballast is glued down), I plan to remove the track screws. Removing the screws ultimately will make the track system even quieter. 

FWIW, I had every piece of FasTrack I needed to build my attic layout. The benchwork was done and I had a 30" straight laying loose on the plywood. I was just rolling a box car on the rails when my wife came upstairs and said "No, I'm not listening to that. You're going to have to figure something else out". Ultimately I sold NIB FasTrack for $0.50/$1.00. It was then that I purchased GarGraves track w/ Ross switches. 

Carsntrains, I used fixed diameters for each curve. I did not have the room to work up and down the diameters to smooth the curves. I have O-96 on the outer loop, O-88 on all the inner curves except where I could squeeze in an O-96. I a couple of places I have O-80. Even with O-96, I have equipment that doesn't look too good going around it. I would really like O-120 everywhere, but ain't gonna happen. I super-elevated the two front curves on the outer loop which adds a little more security for high-speed turns, and looks really cool with passenger cars in tow. My grandson and I raised the outer rail with a piece of 1/8 insulated wire. The ballast fills in the area under the raised rail (just like 1:1). If you have the opportunity to do this and have wide curves, it does add a bit of fun to the railroad.

Trainman2001 posted:

Carsntrains, I used fixed diameters for each curve. I did not have the room to work up and down the diameters to smooth the curves. I have O-96 on the outer loop, O-88 on all the inner curves except where I could squeeze in an O-96. I a couple of places I have O-80. Even with O-96, I have equipment that doesn't look too good going around it. I would really like O-120 everywhere, but ain't gonna happen. I super-elevated the two front curves on the outer loop which adds a little more security for high-speed turns, and looks really cool with passenger cars in tow. My grandson and I raised the outer rail with a piece of 1/8 insulated wire. The ballast fills in the area under the raised rail (just like 1:1). If you have the opportunity to do this and have wide curves, it does add a bit of fun to the railroad.

Sounds cool!   I run 072 outside loop and 060 inside.   You must be running the long passenger cars and or scale stuff !!!   Some of that stuff is HUGE!

Jim

John H posted:

Jim, thanks. I misunderstood the toggle part.

As well.

Speaking about availability.   I did notice at my LHS that they no longer had Lionel tubular track. 

Jim

No problem guys.   I didnt explain myself very well.  

Lionel Tubular track is discontinued- that does not mean you cannot buy it- I am sure that New Old Stock is available, but not from Lionel.  Compatible tubular track (O Gauge only- not O27) is available from MTH, and Menard's to mention two.

Yanksali-

I had similar questions and requirements as you. After exhaustive research, I decided to go with Atlas track and switches (still haven't bought yet, hello tax return!). I really wanted to go with MTH Scaletrax, but I noticed they have been on back order since Nov. I asked my local hobby shop for recs and he said that MTH can't keep up with demand so while I'm sure it would look nice and be affordable, that won't matter if you can't buy the darn things! I didn't like the look of Fastrack, and I read elsewhere on this forum that Realtrax switches have problems with reliability.

I did take a long, hard look at Gargraves/Ross combos. They make beautiful looking track but two problems arose...I had trouble making them fit into the smaller sections of my layout plan in RR-track, they appear to be maybe for the more experienced layout builder with a larger layout (IMHO). More importantly, despite what the advertisement says, Ross switches are more expensive than Atlas. If you just look on the manufacture websites, they are about the same but if you shop around, you can find some great discounts on Atlas track, while it seems that Gargraves is the same price no matter where you purchase.

I hope this helps you to decide, and if I'm off on any of my observations, I hope someone corrects me as I am still new to this myself.

Good Luck!

-Ken