Video, Z-Stuff DZ-1012 Block Detector Controls Two O-Gauge Trains On 1 Mainline

I saw this on youtube yesterday or the day before. Pretty interesting use of the Z-Stuff controls. Others may have know this, but I had no idea they had anything like that or what they had could be used like this?  

In the past, I recall seeing a few folks around here asking about controlling trains like this for displays and other things. This should be a good tutorial for them, it was for me! Thanks for posting!

Z-Stuff IR detectors were used to accomplish two trains on the same loop in my October2007 article in CTT. The IR detectors sensed the train location and controlled the power to designated insulated blocks. 

BOB WALKER posted:

Z-Stuff IR detectors were used to accomplish two trains on the same loop in my October2007 article in CTT. The IR detectors sensed the train location and controlled the power to designated insulated blocks. 

Hi Bob -

• Thanks for posting a copy of that automatic control article.
• FYI:  I have enjoyed reading some of your great CTT articles and viewing some of your videos, but that particular article I was not aware of it.

 ~~

• I would claim the method shown in this new AutoControls.org Video #668 video using the newer DZ-1012 detector, is a bit SIMPLER.   (You might not agree with this claim.  Also, the DZ-1012 was not available until 2017.)
• In this video #668, we used just ONE detector, ONE relay, and ONE isolated "stop block".
• Also, we can run just ONE train (manual operation, when not running both trains) in the forward direction -- without having to add any electrical switches.

In the system you show in the 2007 article, I think that system is more prototypical -- and also more "fail-safe" -- because I believe each train is protected by a block. It would be interesting to see a VIDEO of that system operating.

Also, DZ-1012 May Run MORE Than 2 Trains

With this DZ-1012 type of  system shown in the video, you can sometimes run MORE than 2 trains -- IF you have a longer mainline, and IF the locos run somewhat similar speeds.

EXAMPLE:

• In the 1992 videotape V92902-5D, I did a demo using the "APS Electric Eye" (which functioned similar to the DZ-1012.
• Like the DZ-1012, the APS Electric Eye had one normally-closed contact, one normally-open contact, and an adjustable time delay.
• The video shows FOUR LGB trains being separated, and operated by just 1 Automatic Block.
• There's an excerpt of that video shown in Part 2 of Video #668 at about the 18 minute point, which can be viewed with this link: https://youtu.be/LMSptSSnkcw?t=1102 .  The complete video V92902-5D can be viewed at http://youtu.be/bvPwAuzoQaY .

Just realized that the last two pages of my detection article were not included in my 11/13 post, so here they are.

I just recently uploaded a new "Part 3" of this video -- that shows a Z-Stuff DZ-1012 detector controlling 2 trains using the "Release From The Rear" method.

If you're familiar with old "Insulated Rail" method of controlling two 3-rail trains on the same track , this "Release From The Rear" method works similar, except we're using a Z-Stuff detector & relay in place of the insulated rail "Control Block".

The method shown in earlier "Part 1" video "Delay From The Front" is still the recommended method, but this "Release From The Rear" method shown in Part 3 may work better . . . . IF:

• (a) if the track loop is really LONG (and the DZ-1012's maximum adjustable time delay of 55 seconds is not enough to keep the two trains separated) or
• (b) if you want the stopped train to remain stationary until the moving train travels MOST of the distance around the loop before the "stopped" train starts.

Just For Review:

• Part 1  showed a DZ-1012 used for the "Delay From The Front" method (recommended method).
• Part 2   showed a DZ-1011 used for the "Release From The Rear" method.
• This new  Part 3  is similar to Part 2 -- with the difference being that the DZ-1012 works better because its adjustable time delay of 2 to 55 seconds, handles unequal-length trains better than the DZ-1011 with its fixed 1-second time delay.
• The  AutoControls Video #668 Wiring page  shows the wiring diagrams.

The "insulated rail" method and associated video was discussed in an earlier forum thread
"Talley Ober's Insulated-Rail 3-train, 3-rail O-Gauge Automatic Control System Uses No Relays Nor Electronics"

Mr. Ingram, your videos are very insightful. On my medium sized layout a train will traverse the entire layout, reverse direction, before returning to the starting point. Would you be willing to review my track plan and make recommendations as to where to install the Z Stuff sensors?

Thank you,

Jay Furlong

Lebanon, PA

This single detector two train control approach is intriguing and is worth exploring. My 2007 two detector system using a controlled insulating block works pretty well, but is more complicated.

Thanks Bob.

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

Mr. Ingram, your videos are very insightful. On my medium sized layout a train will traverse the entire layout, reverse direction, before returning to the starting point. Would you be willing to review my track plan and make recommendations as to where to install the Z Stuff sensors?

Thank you,

Jay Furlong

Lebanon, PA

I just saw your message today.

I'm not sure I can help you, but I would be HAPPY to take a look.

My contact info (phone & email) is at www.JamesIngram.net .

I assume you're using "analog" (non DCC) ??

~~~~~

For reversing a train or trains, it seems much easier to do it using the NCE "DCC Controller".

If you can find a minute, watch about 30 seconds of Video #829,   https://youtu.be/vTkGr9zzSMc?t=37  .

It shows THREE trains running point-to-point, no blocks, 1 Z-Stuff detector.

Any thoughts on using this system for older postwar Lionel engines, the article seems geared towards newer can style motors that draw only an amp max.

My plan is to use it and I have made some purchases. I’m not at the stage to install; hopefully by March. Contact James Ingram as noted above. He has YouTube tutorials which are very helpful.

@AlanOGauge posted:

Any thoughts on using this system for older postwar Lionel engines, the article seems geared towards newer can style motors that draw only an amp max.

THANKS for your interest in this control system.

* The Z-Stuff instruction sheet for the DZ-1008 relay says: "The contacts are rated for 10 amperes at 24 V AC."
( Reference:  zstuffexpress.com/_files/ugd/ffc73c_14b5794af32e473187c64e928f87b96e.pdf )

I also attached a copy of those instructions.

~~~~~~~~
Since you'll probably be running significantly LESS than 24 volts, when running "analog" locos, you could probably safely exceed even those 10 amps.

That's 5 amps or more each --  for 2 "current-hungry" O gauge locos.

• If you have any further concerns, I suggest you contact the Z-Stuff owner/designer Dennis Zander by telephone (during "normal business hours").
• He's always been very good about answering my questions.

His phone number is 585-377-0925  (it's also at the end of the PDF instruction sheet that I uploaded).

Thanks for the update. Always wanting to learn, multiple train operation was a concept I tried as a youngster, could not figure it out. Several years ago when I got back into the hobby, brought out the trains, serviced them and had the engines serviced, it was because of this forum and another forum that shall remain anonymous it all started to make sense.

I do have a copy of Bob Walkers article, goofed on the wiring and sent the relays up in smoke. Q#$%%$Y&T*(&^!

Please let us know how it works out. We’re still trying to learn.

Jay