What can I do in 5x12?

Jim:

If you want to run Lionel O gauge track and like the old dealer layouts then copy one. Google Kalmbach Publishing (Classic Toy Trains). I believe they have a book or two on old Lionel dealer display layouts. I do know they routinely show these layouts in their magazine.

There is one particular layout called the disappearing train layout. The train enters a tunnel but takes it time coming out because the track first goes underneath table level and makes a circle before coming back up and out of the tunnel.

Joe

Jim, can you show some pics of a previous layout and the trains you want to run? Tell us what features you liked or didn't like on your previous layouts. Then tell us more about the features you want for a new layout. If you have a minimum radius standard in mind, that makes a huge difference in designing a track plan.

Do you want easy flat-table construction or a multi-level plan?

You should also spell out how your 5 x 12 will fit in the room: aisles all around, or in a corner? It helps if you can show a photo of your space if you want a plan designed to best advantage.

Any special reason for the 5x12 size? Two 4' x 8' panels can make a table top 64" x 144", with only two cuts across one panel and no wasted material.

Jim Vadas posted:

Good morning everyone,

Any ideas what kind of layout I could put on 5x12 benchwork? I want to use Lionel O gauge track. I really do enjoy the look of the old dealer display layouts. I prefer running trains as opposed to operating. I've been out of the hobby for a while and was just looking for some ideas for track plans. Thank you!

Jim

Hi Jim,

Here's a link to a thread about Lionel Display Layouts. It's several pages long and has a great deal of information and pics of display layouts. Just click on the link to get there, well worth scrolling through to get some ideas.....

https://ogrforum.com/t...-and-postwar-layouts

Jim:

found this thread - https://ogrforum.com/t...stwar-layouts?page=1

Also found this book - https://www.amazon.com/Classic...Trains/dp/0897785096

Gentlemen,

thanks for your quick responses! I appreciate it. A little more info...

I purchased a 5x12 Mianne benchwork kit and assembled it. I haven't installed the top yet. One 5' end will be against a wall. The other 3 sides I can walk around with 24"-32" aisles.

I had a temporary version roughly based on the D-132 layout for a few years. Really liked it.

I really like forum member Csxjoe's version of the D-190 layout. Is there anyway that can be stretched out to 12' to allow for a smoother grade? My only concern with the grades...do trains come barreling down the grade at an almost out of control pace? I've never had a layout with a grade on it.

I also have Lionels Tmcc and Mth's Dcs and a Z-4000.

I do appreciate the quality and craftsmanship many of our members posess. Some of the layouts are so realistic! I guess I really enjoy the nostalgic toy train look!

Thank You,

Jim

The D-190 Dealer Display only uses 1 channel of a ZW for track power with the standard Lionel arch trestle set (No.110). That has ~4.5% grade, so the train will come down quickly, but shouldn't derail.

It is a 4' x 8' plan, so you could add 4' feet of straights or less.

In my opinion, there's 5' x 9' plans in the old operating manuals that would be more fun to run trains.

You can do a lot in that size layout. I started at 5X10 then went to 6X10 and finally one weekend I was bored and made it 6x12. Using the Red Wing RR from a track plan book.

Jim Vadas posted:

... I purchased a 5x12 Mianne benchwork kit and assembled it. I haven't installed the top yet. One 5' end will be against a wall. The other 3 sides I can walk around with 24"-32" aisles.

I really like forum member Csxjoe's version of the D-190 layout. Is there anyway that can be stretched out to 12' to allow for a smoother grade? My only concern with the grades...do trains come barreling down the grade at an almost out of control pace? I've never had a layout with a grade on it ... 

Here is a stretched and enlarged variation of the D-190 layout to fit a 5 x 12 table. I widened most of the curves. The crossovers use newer Lionel 3010/3011 switches with more compact switch machines to fit the space. The maximum grade is 3.0%. The plan uses conventional tubular rail with O31-O42-O54 curves. Only four pieces of track are cut to fit.

Jim, if you're not sure how well your trains perform on grades it would be a good idea to try them out on a temporary set-up before building a layout. With up-and-over grades on a small layout it can be tedious to constantly adjust the throttle to keep the train under control. It depends on the grade and locos and train weight etc.

Ace, 

I really appreciate you coming up with that design. You've given me some things to think about. Continually dealing with adjusting the throttle would get old very quick! Maybe a single level layout might be best for me. I could always add a seperate loop on a second level so I don't have to deal with a grade.

Jim

This flat-table plan allows easy operation of three trains. The wye junction and reverse loops add some variety. Flat-table layouts are easy to change around if you decide to try something different.

Standard tubular track with 7 pieces cut to fit. The SCARM file is attached.

I've got the same problem with my permanent "L" Christmas display layout, so I compromised the design by covering much of a glorified Figure 8 with an unconnected upper level. In my case, the upper level will just be a village display with a simple train running through it. In your case, the lower level could be the outside oval and the upper level could be everything else. The lower level could be improved by adding a passing siding where you could store a 2nd train so trains could alternate runs. The size of the upper level runs could be expanded a bit depending on how much of the bottom level you want to cover.

This is a variation on the previous plan. The loop-to-loop circuit is on an upper level to add some scenic interest. Only the connecting track has a grade, so three trains can cruise around on independent level circuits for convenient display running. A good way to enhance this plan is to add connecting yard tracks on an adjoining shelf built to fit available space.

The plan uses conventional tubular track with ten pieces cut to fit. Switches are O72 except in the wye junction.

Jim:  As is often the case, I think the first question you have to answer is - how wide must my curves be....based on what locos and rolling stock I want to run.

Since you haven't laid the top down yet, I'd do my best to have at least one full "loop" be 0-63.  (You may even want to "dog bone" an 0-72 loop if possible.) 

Then, if you want to go a little crazy, you can get as wild and tight as you like inside your outer loop.  0-72 allows you to run almost everything in three rail O scale.

Best of luck regardless.

Jim Vadas posted:

Good morning everyone,

Any ideas what kind of layout I could put on 5x12 benchwork? I want to use Lionel O gauge track. I really do enjoy the look of the old dealer display layouts. I prefer running trains as opposed to operating. I've been out of the hobby for a while and was just looking for some ideas for track plans. Thank you!

Jim

Berkshire President posted:

Jim:  As is often the case, I think the first question you have to answer is - how wide must my curves be....based on what locos and rolling stock I want to run.

Since you haven't laid the top down yet, I'd do my best to have at least one full "loop" be 0-63 ...

If Jim likes old dealer display layouts like the D-190, it sounds like he's OK with O31 curves.

O-63 curves on a 60"-wide table is a bit of a stretch.   

It doesn't sound like 60" is set in stone based on the reference to 24"-32" aisles on the sides. While you have the Mianne 5x12 benchwork kit, the top can always overhang some if you decide to widen things with a 3"-6" overhang. Mind you, I don't think you gain much by doing so. O63/O72 curves may increase your options for larger rolling stock, but they use a lot more real estate and decrease your options for track. I could be wrong, but I doubt running something that requires curves wider than O54 is a priority for a 5x12 space.

While the original grade on the 4x8 version was 4.5%, I don't know that trains will "run away" coming down the 3% grade on Ace's stretched version. Of course, that depends somewhat on how fast trains are being run in the first place. Like Ace suggested, it might be worth some time to set up a test using your equipment.

 

 

If Jim likes old dealer display layouts like the D-190, it sounds like he's OK with O31 curves.

O-63 curves on a 60"-wide table is a bit of a stretch.   

I assumed (and still do) that you can have a plywood top hanging over the edge of the bench work.

Only the OP knows what kind of curves he likes....but the time to address that decision is now....before the final decision is made on the top, IMHO.  It's much harder to add on after the fact.  Not impossible....just harder.

Just my two cents.....

I have a Mianne 4x16 footprint with 4'8" x 16 plywood surface.

If I went to a 5x12 I would see no problem ( as far as the bench work) going 6' x 13' based on room area

Bill

Jim Vadas posted:

Any ideas what kind of layout I could put on 5x12 benchwork?

This layout is 4-1/2' x 12'.  

Hojack,

what an amazing layout in a small space! Thanks for sharing the picture! The video is great!

I especially like the long elevated trolly run!

The layout in this thread is very interesting to me!

It has some features I want. A reversing loop and the ability to run 2 trains. I probably wouldnt have the 2x3 extension and I would stretch it out to 12 feet.

Yes, the reason I havent attached the top to the benchwork is I may have it overhang a little bit for some added real estate. I just dont want to limit myself to very narrow aisles.

https://ogrforum.com/t...tubular-track-layout