What incline percentage do you have for hills

See this ...What is a good % for maximum grade | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

and this ....grading question | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

My grades are 2.4% and 2.5%.  I'd have liked to keep them to 2%, but my absolute limit personally would be 3% grades.  When you get higher, you end up typically being significantly limited in the size of consists you can run.

In order to limit your grade to 3% for the 9" rise, you'll have to have a run of 300 inches, that's 25 feet.  Also, consider that you need several feet at each end for grade easement so that larger locomotives like articulated steam don't run into problems entering or exiting the grade.  My 7" rise consumes about 25 feet of run, as I allowed the extra for three feet of easement at each end.  Considering the easements, your total run for the 9" rise will probably be around 30 feet.

I agree with gunrunnerjohn that 2% grades are ideal.  I have a 2% and and a 2.4% and I think they operate and look good.  Another factor to consider is how sharp are the curves in the incline as they also put a lot of drag on the train.  I recently visited two layouts that have much steeper grades and they have embraced it as operating challenges.  One uses helper engines on the grade just like real railroads do and it adds a lot to his layout.  It's probably a good idea to think through what type of trains and operations you want to have and that may give you the answer.  Another option might be to have one steep grade and one that isn't and you could choice which one to take based on the train length and motive power?

Art

The Lionel graduated trestle set works for me.

Thanks to all who have provided input. I have a 44 foot straight run that I can use to do my decent and including gunrunnerjohn's recommendation of having a 3 foot approach on each end I will have about a 1.75 percent grade.

idea-thinker

@idea-thinker posted:

Thanks to all who have provided input. I have a 44 foot straight run that I can use to do my decent and including gunrunnerjohn's recommendation of having a 3 foot approach on each end I will have about a 1.75 percent grade.

Sounds good, note that the easements should slowly ramp up to the grade level, so it'll account for a tiny bit of the rise as well.  Also, the easement at the top will equally slowly return to level in the same fashion.  I think you'll be very happy with 1.75% grades.

With my 4 x 12 layout, I had to use a steeper grade, but I have made it work with any engine with rubber traction tires and higher voltages to climbing blocks  and lower voltages on descent blocks. Any engines with all steel wheels are restricted to a very short consist.

The big thing is to have fun with what you can do.

If your grades are too much for one locomotive...

If you have a 44 foot run then use all of it. It will look more realistic and enable you to run long trains.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If your grades are too much for one locomotive...

Cool idea! I do not have any identical locomotives with front couplers, but a cool idea!

Example:   Change in elevation (???, may be 8" inches) divided by the length of the grade, (???, may be 20 ft (240inches) X 100% = 3.33%   Tough to get those 1%, 2% grades. IMO.   Have fun    

Another point of concern is transition from one grade to another.  A gradual transition is better.

Had room to do so...kept them at 2% max. per RRTrack's calculation during the design process. 

But, even with that criteria and periodic design checks, I found out that extra length to the overall incline is necessary at the top and bottom for trouble-free transitions.  Believe it!...as the grades get steeper, those transitions become more critical to good operation!   I found I used an extra 3'...or more...at both ends of a calculated 2% grade during actual construction in order to resolve some of those 'transitional' problems.  Such transitions on curves are particularly nettlesome and should be avoided...IMHO, of course.

OTOH, if you're into PostWar equipment, Magne-Traction, tubular steel track I have memories of some department store Christmas layouts that were...at that tender age...jaw-dropping for their hill-climbing magic.   In one corner window display in one of several Washington, D.C., stores I was mesmerized at one viewing spot.  The train (steamer at the fore) entered a snowy tunnel and moments later emerged from another snowy portal about a foot higher and 90º change in direction!  Being vertically-challenged at that age, I could stoop down, peer into the bottom tunnel, and see the train enter a helix, speeding up to the top level.  Somewhere, over on the opposite side of the layout in that triangular space of the corner window, the magic was duplicated for the downhill run.  AWESOME!!  Some 70+ years later, and having been a continuing student at the School of Hard Knocks and Rude Reality, I long ago gave up on the dream of replicating that feat on any of my several layout creations.   

So when folks ask about the grades on my layout I tell them "The track inclines are close to 2% max., but the rest of the whole shebang...a never ending work-in-process...averages about a B."

But we're having fun!

KD  (Lucas Gudinov)

My grade is on a long curve with a diameter of about 10 feet, then it transitions into a straight section up to the next level.  All of that was done with Gargraves flex track.  The calculated grade is 2.5% on the inside track and 2.4% on the outside curve.  I allowed about three feet at either end for the easement back to level.  I haven't had any issue with any of my locomotives or rolling stock, including many articulated steamers.  I larger articulated steamers have easily hauled over 50 cars around the layout, including the grade, so for me it hasn't been a limiting factor.  I will say that some of the small locomotives really do have issues with longer consists up the grade, which is to be expected.  That's why they make MU configurations possible for our command systems.

Keep in mind you can go up or down. Sounds silly, right. If you start on a main level, assuming the benchwork is flexible, you can build going down as well as going up. You would end up with three levels. The engineering is a challenge but the reward is totally cool. Follow the advice above and you'll be fine.

It's good that you are asking.  You will get a lot of answers.  A lot depends on what type of trains you would like to operate.  It is tempting to try to cram a grade into a short space, but it can be done, depending on what you operate.

Three things to remember:

1. The transitions in vertical curvature at the beginning and end of a grade are important.  If they are too abrupt, couplers will bypass vertically on some cars, especially when a long car is coupled to a short car.
2. The steeper the grade the shorter you have to run your trains, especially with Lionel type couplers.  The knuckles are soft metal castings.  Drawbar force is increased when a train is being pulled up a grade.  If you are using Kadee couplers, then you can run longer trains.
3. With a long train, keeping train speed steady and not accelerating before half of your train has crested the grade will be beneficial.  Prototype railroads do this to avoid exceeding coupler strength.

It would be a good idea to consider these factors, so that you can enjoy running your trains more and repairing them less.

@Number 90 posted:

If you are using Kadee couplers, then you can run longer trains.

Well, I think the Lionel couplers handle most long trains just fine.  Here's my two Legacy U-Boats with a 115 car consist at our club layout.

I agree with most everything that has been posted in this thread.  I hope to start construction of a layout very soon, and it will likely have a lower level for staging.  I don't have the room that some of you guys have, and I am very concerned about those "transitions."

The constant part of the grade is easy (rise over run.)  However, in my experience SCARM does not automatically create smooth transitions for the intermediate track supports.  So I did a Google search, looked at NMRA standards, MR mag archive, etc.  I couldn't find an equation, or even a rule of thumb about the shape of the "vertical curve" at the top and bottom of the slope.  I couldn't even find a definitive reference for the heights of the individual piers in the Lionel graduated trestle set!  (Figuring that's a worst-case scenario.)  So, help!  Someone please throw me a polynomial!!