Wiring a 2020 Lionel PowerHouse 180 to a TIU.

Center wire of the PH180 is hot, the outside wire is common.

Both outside wires? There's two.

There are only two wires from the PH180, the 3rd position is empty.  No connection at the pointy end of the connector.

This is true for the adapter plug, but not for the cord feeding into the plug (at least on the newer models). I had cut off the adapter plug thinking there were only two wires feeding into it, one for hot and one for ground, that I could simply connect to the respective TIU terminals but after doing so I found there were three wires, despite the third position of the plug being empty. I guess my question is where to terminate that third wire outer wire, my instinct is that its redundant and should be connected to ground but I wanted to get a second opinion. I've attached a photo for reference:

I'd obviously use the two that are active in the adapter plug and ignore the 3rd one.  I have no idea what it's connected to.

I know for sure the older PH180 units have two wires to the plug as it's obvious from the wire and I've also see several with the plugs cut off and there were two wires.

I have not seen any of the new ones, don't know what the extra wire is for.

Thanks! I might actually bust open the adapter plug to see if/where the third wire terminates, just to satisfy my own curiosity.

So based on my investigations/tests, it seems that the extra outside wire is a "sensor" that double checks to make sure that the circuit is grounded (the small board inside the plug labels it as such). If this wire goes "hot", it trips and cuts power until the issue is fixed. Additionally, if not connected it trips after being turned on for a moment.  Seems one of my bricks must have come with the polarity of flipped or something, cause when I connect to the supposedly grounded wire to the sensor port, the transformer made a weird buzzing noise that sounded like the breaker was being flipped off and on rapidly; connecting to the "hot" inner wire (in reality the ground) fixed this issue (Additionally the LED does not light up in this unit, which could be related to the polarity being flipped). I've heard that these units have been known for sometimes shipping with the polarity flipped, guess I got one of those.

I'm pretty shocked that you'd have a mis-wired one from the factory after all the flap over previous mis-wired transformers.

Actually nevermind, just tested the other unit, seems this third sensor wire is supposed to connected to hot after all (no buzzing when connected to hot). Must be a check to ensure that track power is being delivered.

Given that there's no on-line manuals that I can find, I can't say what the other wire is for.  Since I don't own any of the new production, it's also not really a major issue for me.

I have a single TIU and just one Lionel Powerhouse 180.  The PH outputs alternating current, so it doesn't matter which lead goes to RED , isn't that correct?

If you never add another transformer to the mix, that would be correct.  However, if there's another transformer introduced in the future, than you have to be mindful of phasing the transformer so that the common is the same phase on all the transformers.

Thank you John

I read this with interest as I have multiple new 180w powerhouses and a WTIU.  What was the conclusion to where to put the 3rd wire from the powerhouse (pointy end that does not have an associated pin)?  Many thanks!

The third pin is a newer safety feature that disables power at the female output connector if the 3rd pin isn't present in the male connector.  There's no actual power connection through the 3rd pin.  Page 5 of the manual:

I saw that also, but was hoping to go straight to banana plugs rather than have to purchase additional molex connectors.

It also refers to an included extra pin to insert in the empty position - except they were not included.  Plus the same issue above.

Although I haven't tried this and it may raise the ire of the UL police, some have reported that they inserted an object into the 3rd socket to turn on the safety switch.  I've also read somewhere here on the Forum that the extra pins are available from Lionel Support, maybe free of charge.

Still trying to get around adding Molex connectors in line prior to banana plugs, but thanks!

I put in a call to Lionel as well.

@Jims Trains posted:

Still trying to get around adding Molex connectors in line prior to banana plugs, but thanks!

I put in a call to Lionel as well.

If you already have Molex plug matching the one on the transformer, you can just insert an extra male contact into the 3rd position to activate the switch, no extra Molex plugs.  I do recommend against cutting off that Molex plug to put banana plugs on as then you have to deal with wiring that safety switch independently.

I hope this is an ok thread to ask this question

i have a Lionel power master stamped 201912 and a Mth 100 watt  brick    These two are out of phase with one another   if I try to correct by using an adapter or grinding down plug in order to reverse polarity does it matter which one to do. Is one  of these bricks "correct" and how could I identify?

maybe a stupid question but could I resolve by switching the output leads on one or another ?

@Wvm posted:

I hope this is an ok thread to ask this question

i have a Lionel power master stamped 201912 and a Mth 100 watt  brick    These two are out of phase with one another   if I try to correct by using an adapter or grinding down plug in order to reverse polarity does it matter which one to do. Is one  of these bricks "correct" and how could I identify?

maybe a stupid question but could I resolve by switching the output leads on one or another ?

Either method of polarity reversal will work.  Swapping either input or output connections on one transformer will reverse its polarity.

Thanks for reply Steve   I forgot to mention that the bricks will be used as input to a MTH WTIU. Does this matter.    Just relabeling outputs seems like such an easy solution why does everyone always suggest replugging in some way?

It’s fine to do this ahead of a WTIU or TIU.  
When phasing postwar transformers, it makes sense to reverse polarity at their inputs (because they are supposed to have non-polarized plugs) so that the output terminals are labeled consistently.  This became the accepted way of doing it and this method was passed down as “the” way.  Some still think of AC voltage as having a hot and ground.  Train transformers’ outputs are electrically isolated from their inputs. To meet UL certification their outputs should have no connection to earth ground.  Their outputs are just plus and minus; opposite poles from which a sinusoidal wave of electrical energy emanates.

Thanks Steve. I went ahead and did it. Everything working fine. No more shorting going through switch connecting the two power blocks   I've gone ahead and reversed the banana plugs themselves to prevent future confusion on how to connect to TIU   Thanks again