18" Pullman Sleeping Car Interior Upgrade, Placid Haven

Wow, you are going from strength to strength. The extra interior details certainly make the whole thing eye-popping. Well done. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Great build and tremendous construction information!

Another OUTSTANDING project and write-up.

Permit me a pedestrian question:  which specific Mr. Clean Eraser product did you use?  I ask because Amazon lists several, including "Original," "Extra Durable," "Kitchen w/ Dawn," and others.

I, too, have read about using Mr. Eraser, but I've balked due to uncertainty of which specific product to buy.  Your reply will result in the purchase of the product, and I have a couple of specific applications in mind.  Thanks in advance, TA.

You beat me to it Carl! I have the same question.

Bryce

Carl,

Beautiful job on all the UP cars you have completed.  I followed your other thread on the conversion project and like other contributors, find you work more than inspiring.

I finally located a K Line UP "National Border" and would like to see if you know of any UP red decal sets with the proper color and size that would allow me to add the Wabash name to the side of the car.  The few photos of the Wabash cars painted in UP livery that I have seen show the UP red "Wabash" lettering situated over the top of the passenger car door.  This is not possible with the "National Border", but I was thinking of adding the Wabash name underneath the existing Union Pacific name that is located to the right of the car entrance door.  If you have time, your comments on this plan will be appreciated.

I use my K Line UP 18" cars for the "City of Los Angeles train (MTH E-6 A-B-B-A) and also use many of this consist for my "City of St. Louis" train pulled by MTH Wabash A and B units.  My current collection: ten 18" K Line aluminum cars, two 15", and one MTH Premier plastic Chicago and Northwestern car in UP colors.

Thanks 

Martin

Another two questions for TA:  What material do you use for the partition walls that provides texture??

And, do you have a photo of the hallway/door(?) side of the car viewed through the windows?

Did you put any type of clear coat over the decal to protect it?

Pingman posted:

Another OUTSTANDING project and write-up.

Permit me a pedestrian question:  which specific Mr. Clean Eraser product did you use?  I ask because Amazon lists several, including "Original," "Extra Durable," "Kitchen w/ Dawn," and others.

I, too, have read about using Mr. Eraser, but I've balked due to uncertainty of which specific product to buy.  Your reply will result in the purchase of the product, and I have a couple of specific applications in mind.  Thanks in advance, TA.

Hi Pingman, thank you for the feedback!

I used the Magic Eraser "Extra Durable" to remove painted name off the sides of the car (here's the full photo of the box before I started).  Cut your eraser as small as possible.  Remember, the eraser will flatten out even more when you add pressure and you don't want it to erase any paint outside of the area you are working on. 

I wrote above that it took 5-minutes.  But that's only because I was constantly checking that this eraser was not removing any of the Armour Yellow paint.  The other side of the car went a lot faster once I had the confidence it was only taking off the top layer of red paint. 

Pingman posted:

Another two questions for TA:  What material do you use for the partition walls that provides texture??

And, do you have a photo of the hallway/door(?) side of the car viewed through the windows?

 

Hi Pingman,

I didn't have a photo of the hallway side as requested, so I took a few shots last night.  On this side of the sleeping car there is very little for the viewer to look at inside the hallway.  That is why I included as many details as I could like:

1. Handrail

2. Stainless steel kick board (painted)

3.  Overhead LED hallway lights

4.  Lines for the bedroom doors (made w/ 0.05, medium gray, Staedtler pigment liner)

5.  Sleeping car attendant on drop seat

The only detail I wish I had included was door handles in the hallway.  But I did not think I could make 11 identical door handles.  This would be a perfect job for someone with a 3D printer. 

Real hallway details should look like the following photos.  Sorry, most the overhead lights were off on the day I visited this Union Pacific National series passenger car.

Sleeping car attendants drop seat

Door handle

Stainless Steel kick board.

Outside sliding door details from roomette #5.  The sliding door w/lock was for nighttime use.  During the day curtains would be hung for passenger privacy.  The small box on the upper left side is a shoe locker.  In the middle of the night the sleeping car attendant would polish passengers shoes left in this box.   

To answer your question about the texture of the interior partition walls.  It comes from the grain on the 1/16" x 3" x 24" basswood.  If a builder wanted smoother walls they could use a 1/16" thick styrene sheets instead of wood.   For me, basswood is easy to find at hobby stores and it's the medium I'm comfortable with cutting, sanding, gluing and painting.     

Thanks,

Big Jim posted:

Did you put any type of clear coat over the decal to protect it?

Hi Big Jim, 

No, I didn't put anything over the top of the Microscale decal.  

I did see Microscale offers a product called Micro Flat as an overcoat to protect the decal.  But the red letters on the side of this car should be glossy to match the rest of the red letters and not turned to flat.   Microscale also offered a product called Micro Gloss overcoat to protect the decal.  I could have done this, but I did not want to have a large glossy spot on the Armour Yellow paint since it has a flat finish. 

The final decision to not use a clear coat over the decal was after I looked at Microscales website.   Microscale says about their Micro Flat and Micro Gloss products "For models that get a lot of handling this is the answer".  Well, that did it.   I'm going to leave this passenger car on the track and it's not getting any handling where the decal was placed.    

The Microscale decals come trimmed very close to the letters and they have a satin finish when held close to your eye in the light.  Since I don't normally hold my passenger cars that close, I felt the Placid Haven name matched great at a normal viewing distance so I did not use either the flat or gloss clear coat over the decal.   

I hope this answer helps!

TA, thank you for the detailed explanation and photos.  

Perhaps with detailed photos and specs one of the skilled forum members in 3D printing would gladly  assist you in adding a much-desired detail to your outstanding model.  I'll bet a new thread from you asking for help would do the trick.

Pingman posted:

Perhaps with detailed photos and specs one of the skilled forum members in 3D printing would gladly  assist you in adding a much-desired detail to your outstanding model.  I'll bet a new thread from you asking for help would do the trick.

Door handles appear to be what you are missing. Out of all the O or "quarter scale" detailing products that are available, door handles or levers are a real rarity. You can find many of them in 1/12 and even 1/24 scale, but not 1/48. 

However, I know the source for these although they might be a little "domestic" for your purposes:

These are old fashioned white metal accessories, which are bigger, rougher but also more durable than 3D printed stuff. These are listed as 1/8" long or 6 scale inches. I have never found 3D printed handles in O scale although I have looked.

The source is http://www.virtualdollhouse.net/VDSTORE/Metal1.htm. I have got many items from the lady who runs it, who is called Grace.

WOW. very impressive, nice job!!

Thank you for sharing this incredible project.  Absolutely beautiful.

You should reconsider setting that decal.  Here are some decals I did some years back that I did not set.  If the solution changes your desired finish, you could always clear coat the entire shell with the finish you desire.

I just purchased Microset and Microsol for the project I'm doing now.  1st time user.

Have Fun!

Ron

"The only detail I wish I had included was door handles in the hallway.  But I did not think I could make 11 identical door handles. "

Door handles could be made from model RR spikes with maybe a little filing down on the sides.

And always remember not to pick up your car in the middle where the name is!
Hopefully they won't flake off.

Martin Dougherty posted:

Carl,

Beautiful job on all the UP cars you have completed.  I followed your other thread on the conversion project and like other contributors, find you work more than inspiring.

I finally located a K Line UP "National Border" and would like to see if you know of any UP red decal sets with the proper color and size that would allow me to add the Wabash name to the side of the car.  The few photos of the Wabash cars painted in UP livery that I have seen show the UP red "Wabash" lettering situated over the top of the passenger car door.  This is not possible with the "National Border", but I was thinking of adding the Wabash name underneath the existing Union Pacific name that is located to the right of the car entrance door.  If you have time, your comments on this plan will be appreciated.

I use my K Line UP 18" cars for the "City of Los Angeles train (MTH E-6 A-B-B-A) and also use many of this consist for my "City of St. Louis" train pulled by MTH Wabash A and B units.  My current collection: ten 18" K Line aluminum cars, two 15", and one MTH Premier plastic Chicago and Northwestern car in UP colors.

Thanks 

Martin

 

Hi Martin,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.  I wanted to research your question to give you the best answer. 

It was difficult finding a photo of a real National series sleeping car in the Union Pacific Yellow and Gray colors with the Wabash name and there was nothing in my UP books.  I finally found an example online of a brass model in HO scale (I will send you an email with those photos).  If that brass model I found online is correct, they placed the Wabash name exactly where the Union Pacific name sits on your National Border.  Here's an example below.  Therefore, it sounds like you just have to remove the four Union Pacific painted names off the corners of your K-Line National Border and replace with Wabash.

Okay, for your next question about how to find red Wabash letters for the sides of your car in the Union Pacific font.  This answer is going to vary with everybody's option on this forum so I will try my best and others are welcome to give their ideas for your project also.  Here are my 4 different suggestions for getting the Wabash name on the sides of your sleeping cars.

1.  Hire Christine Braden.  Christine does professional work painting and lettering O-scale cars.  Just put her name in this forums search box and you can find her contact info.  Lot of OGR forum members love her work.

2.  Find someone local with a Cricut printer.  A Cricut printer will create your Wabash lettering in red vinyl with a sticky backed adhesive that is easy to apply.  And this person can make you lots of these red vinyl Wabash names to cover all the corners of your passenger car.  Ask them to print in either Futura or Helvetica font to match your K-Line letters.  That's correct, not Union Pacific font and this is where some people will get to splitting hairs and counting rivets.  The reason I have to clarify this point is that your K-Line does not have the correct UP font on its sides.  If you look close in the photo below of a real sleeping car, the correct Union Pacific font should have a black outline and the K-Line painted letters do not.   

3.  Go to a local printer and have them print a bunch of red Wabash names on a clear sticker paper.  Cut the Wabash names off this sticker and apply.  Again with this approach they can make you lots of these red Wabash stickers to cover all the corners of your passenger car.  Ask them to print in either Futura or Helvetica font at the correct size for your passenger car.

4.  Buy the Microscale O-gauge decal 48-196 (sheet #1) and use it creatively.  If you buy this sheet that's currently on eBay you can create two Wabash decals for the side of your passenger car from the letters they supply. And Microscale decals are in the correct Union Pacific font with black outline.  

The other plus side to this Microscale 48-196 decal sheet#1 is you can convert both of your Ocean Sunset cars to be a National series cars  As you know Wabash ran the National series and 4 of Western series cars built in 1949.  I would suggest getting at least four of these 48-196 decal sheets if possible.  From my research this decal sheet will give you any of these City of St. Louis options:

National Command

National Domain

National Emblem

National Forum

National Home (s)

National Scene

National Shores (sorry can do this one, since you used up the "SH" for the name Wabash already)

National View

Also, here are the 4 Western series sleeper names used on Wabash starting in 1949.

Western View (available on this sheet)

Western Sunset (available on this sheet)

Western Lake

Western Scene (available on this sheet)

Good luck Martin, you have a lot of choices.  These are just my suggestions above and hopefully others will give their ideas also.  Please post photos of how your Armour yellow and harbor Mist gray Wabash passenger cars turn out!

Thanks,

Hancock52 posted:

Pingman posted:

Perhaps with detailed photos and specs one of the skilled forum members in 3D printing would gladly  assist you in adding a much-desired detail to your outstanding model.  I'll bet a new thread from you asking for help would do the trick.

Door handles appear to be what you are missing. Out of all the O or "quarter scale" detailing products that are available, door handles or levers are a real rarity. You can find many of them in 1/12 and even 1/24 scale, but not 1/48. 

However, I know the source for these although they might be a little "domestic" for your purposes:

These are old fashioned white metal accessories, which are bigger, rougher but also more durable than 3D printed stuff. These are listed as 1/8" long or 6 scale inches. I have never found 3D printed handles in O scale although I have looked.

The source is http://www.virtualdollhouse.net/VDSTORE/Metal1.htm. I have got many items from the lady who runs it, who is called Grace.

Alright Pingman, Hancock and Big Jim... you guys inspired me to open the Placid Haven car yesterday and fix my oversight.  :-)

Here's a photo of what the door handle inside the National Border, Pullman sleeper looked like during my last visit to the museum.  

I didn't get good enough photos of the door handles to measure or send off to a 3D printer but it was good enough for me to try and duplicate with very thin sheet of styrene and 1/64" aluminium rod.

Thank you for your helpful ideas and encouragement.  This long hallway looks much better now with door handles.

BRAVO!!!

Pingman posted:

BRAVO!!!

Ditto from me. Looks great. A passenger car interior should have a 3D feel of depth to it that these small  accents provide.

Looks good!

Another question:  How did you fabricate and install the railing seen in the windows?  

TA, if you provided this info already in one of your previous threads on this project, just point me in the right direction and I'll find what I need.

Thank you for the information and the research you obviously spent some time in completing.  I first became aware of the existence of Wabash UP cars when visiting my son in Los Angeles a few years ago.  We went to the Allied Model Train store (it was still open) where many of the Hollywood stars purchase trains for their hobby. Frank Sinatra was one customer that comes to mind.  

While in the store I noticed an O gauge metal (presumably aluminum, but possibly brass) consist of UP cars, one of which had the "Wabash" in UP red over the entrance door of the car.  I didn't check the name on the side of the car and was going to talk with the clerk concerning manufacturer details.  However, we got caught up in other searches and left without gaining additional information.

Martin

Pingman posted:

Another question:  How did you fabricate and install the railing seen in the windows?  

TA, if you provided this info already in one of your previous threads on this project, just point me in the right direction and I'll find what I need.

Hi Pingman,

I used a 1/32" solid brass rod from the hobby store.  Painted the rod silver and then attached it to the the inside of the K-Line shell.  Based on my photos from outside the cars, it looked like the handrail should be mounted about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the window.

Some of the photos from inside the cars included the pulldown shade so I could not use these images for measuring the handrail location. 

I like how this handrail looks from the outside of my sleeping cars.  When I have time I will go back through my diner, coach and observation dome lounge car to add this extra handrail detail in their hallways.

Thanks for the info; it is a very nice detail.

Martin Dougherty posted:

Thank you for the information and the research you obviously spent some time in completing.  I first became aware of the existence of Wabash UP cars when visiting my son in Los Angeles a few years ago.  We went to the Allied Model Train store (it was still open) where many of the Hollywood stars purchase trains for their hobby. Frank Sinatra was one customer that comes to mind.  

While in the store I noticed an O gauge metal (presumably aluminum, but possibly brass) consist of UP cars, one of which had the "Wabash" in UP red over the entrance door of the car.  I didn't check the name on the side of the car and was going to talk with the clerk concerning manufacturer details.  However, we got caught up in other searches and left without gaining additional information.

Martin

 

Hi Martin,

For more information about your joint Wabash/Union Pacific City of St.Louis train I would recommend getting this 35 page magazine from the TRRA-HTS. 

According to their website "This issues examined the birth of the "City of St. Louis" streamliner, a joint Wabash/Union Pacific train between St. Louis-Kansas City-Denver and Pacific coast points. The train was inaugurated from St. Louis Union Station in 1946 with much fanfare. Included in the feature are photos of equipment, including the dome lounge-observation car with its rare "City of St. Louis-Domeliner" neon tail sign, maps, timetable information, operational notes and equipment lists. Naturally, a good bit of the magazine is devoted to the operation of the train in and out of St. Louis Union Station and the headaches that were caused when the long train had to be doubled over on two tracks when arriving. Special contributors include William F. Howes, Jr., Steve Parsons, Frederick Gamst, William Warren and early 1947 era photos from the collection of Joe Collias."

Here is a link to the TRRA website:  http://trra-hts.railfan.net/issue3738.html If they dont have anymore of this 1996 issue for sale maybe they can tell you where to purchase one.

This issue is 24 years old, has black and white photos and information about your train like:

Thanks,

Just peering at the cover of that book, and not to hijack the thread, it’s interesting to see that UP Erie-built Fairbanks-Morse diesel pictured. It looks like it was used to pull the City of St. Louis but I can’t recall that engine being made in 3rail O scale.