22x23 layout designer's block

Have you considered addding a second loop that doesnt parallel the first loop? You've got lots of room there, why not go to double (or maybe even triple) main lines for part of the path and then deviate them from one another for parts of the trip.
Have you considered moving the peninsula to a corner, sticking out at 45 degrees? Or an 'E' shaped layout with an open side?
The other thing I see is that all of your sidings open in the same direction. Thats no fun. Flip some of those switches around and throw in a run-around track or 2 for some complexity.

I have thought about other mainlines but I didn't know how to incorporate it without compromising the length of the primary mainline. The idea of having the second loop not follow the firs sounds wonderful but again I'm not sure how to implement that. I also considered the peninsula coming out of the corner because it would really limit access to the area in the corner and I already have trouble reaching the entire way in. I'm re-opening the E shaped layout because the more I think about it the more it sounds like it would be perfect. I think that having the larger curves bites me in the but there though because at three 6 foot circles to loop bag each leg of the E I use up 18 of my 23 feet which limits aisles. Now the sidings, that I can do and it makes perfect sense to have them mixed up so that I have to think a little more to collect the cargo ect.
Thank you for all the wonderful ideas, I guess I just have a hard time getting things to work on paper. In my head its all alot easier. I'm also scared that my layout will be to cluttered or something. Part of me just wants to stop rambling and planning and put the track down already....lol


thanks,
alex

6 feet in diameter, yes, but you'll have plenty of aisle space if all 3 legs of the E are different lengths. If the center only protrudes 12 feet, and you have 22 of depth, then you have plenty of room to move around as long as you have a greater than 180 degree turn around at either end. 23' wide also lets you offset the center leg from center, which would give you room for a yard along either wall. So much can be done with a space that size... I wish I had that much room. to play with.

I am in a similar quandry. I have a mid sized space and have been doodling with rr track for sometime. I started with a design similar to yours but I'm now anti duck under. My new designs are more of an elongated E or dogbone type.

George

Have you considered something more approachable like a single or multiple PRR branch line operation. Maybe a full loop mainline mostly hidden around the room with one or more branch line taps from which interesting runs could be developed?

I've been thinking about a branchline since I read your post and read a few things and from an operating approach it sounds like alot of a fun, but I do not even know where to start planning such a thing. Any suggestions?

quote:

Originally posted by TheRailKing:
...no matter what I do I can't seem to make one that I am confident about making. I feel like i have a lot of space but every design I make doesn't feel like its right.

I am trying to model the Pennsylvania railroad in the early 1940's...

I really feel like I'm stuck in a box.

Alex, if you think about it, even the 1:1 railroads are stuck in a box. They just have more room to work in. So far, you're off to a good start. You have a period in time, and a list of "wants" for your railroad. But how do you want your railroad to operate? Will it just be yourself running a train for railfanning, or will you have friends and family over for an operating night? Will you be strictly conventional, or will you be using a command system of some sort?

Looking at your layout, you would be limited to the following: One train running a loop, one switcher working the yard, and maybe one road switcher running out to your industries. I can see trouble on your mainline when the road switcher is ready to return. You would have to hold the through train in the yard, or run the road switcher back in the same direction the through train is traveling. This isn't a bad thing if you incorporate a fouled mainline scenario into a running session or a timetable. It does happen in the real world.

Sometimes we become so focused on designing on a horizontal plane that we forget to use the vertical plane. It's easy to fall into this little trap because we design in 2D. If you take the mainline running parallel to the yard to the West (left side) and raise it on a hill, you now have a different look. This will also enable you to push your yard closer to the wall and open up more space. If we continue the height of the mainline North (the top of your layout), you can then snake the lead out of your yard under the raised mainline, making some of it disappear. This will give you the oppurtunity to model your mountains, tunnels and trestle.

Something else just caught my eye: The width of your layout is constant . Try breaking up the width in different areas. This will help break up thos long straight sections and give the line a little character.

Guest access is limited due to the duck-under design, but this can be fixed easily by adding a lift out bridge to allow passage into the middle of the layout.

So, where am I going with my mini-novel? Well, I'm taking you back to the start. No layout is ever complete. We start with an idea, then move on to the purpose, planning, track laying and scenery building, then run trains, and get a new idea...it's a rather fun cycle, wouldn't you agree? No, you haven't run a train on your layout, but you have in your head, and you've reached the end of the cycle. Something's not right, so it's time to go back to the beginning.

Idea: To model the Pennysylvania Railroad in the 1940's. This is a pretty broad idea. We need to narrow down the idea to fit your room size. Perhaps you can choose a geographic area, possibly where you grew up? We know your R.R. will be hauling farmland freight (milk, produce, cattle, corn, etc.) and coal. You will have a yard. Your terrain will will be hilly requiring a trestle with patches of flatland for the farm. Will you have any passenger service? Will this be before/during/after the war or a mixture?

Before we move on, take a little time to flush out your ideas. Find books and photos that represent what you would like to see. Afterwards, we'll work on the purpose and go one step at a time until you're knee deep in a satisfying layout.

RailKing,

RE: branch line operation,

OST ran some articles on branchline operation. Basicly hub(s) and points thru/to which operations ran.

My adaption of it which is under construction involves a track diagram that looks like the letter "K" with an extra leg. I will have what is for now a dummy main line interchange and five dead end branch lines which grow off of each other.

Goods will all come back to the main interchange to be resorted and redirected either to fantasy far away places in a long dead end tunnel or other destinations on other branchlines. This all is wrapping around the walls of a 33' X 60' irregular basement just not touching on the extream ends. Continueous running not possible.

In order to pull this off I just spent the last few years selling off all my big engines and 80+ foot long passenger cars and purchased smaller power which looks much more appropriate anyway.

My Big Boys IMO, would look a little pointless running around in circles in my basement.

This is just one of many very good ways to build a model RR. tt

I hadn't added any elevations yet because I figured that I shouldn't put too much time into a track plan that I'm not really happy with. My idea was that the track would rise during the peninsula at a 2% grade and cross back over itself and then come down from that height at a shallower grade. I completely agree with the cycle thing. I had started my layout before this but stopped before I got too far because I realized how unhappy I was with the design. I want to do the before/early start of the war period. I didn't mention but I will be controlling the layout via DCS. As far as where I grew up, I'm 18 and I still live at home while I attend college in New Jersey. I actually have a very busy freight line behind my house and work part time at a container terminal. I've got a bunch of books and done alot of reading but I still can't seem to get anything on paper that actually works. Meanwhile, I often see people with smaller areas doing alot more with their layouts. I'm also afraid of over tracking my space.



as far as the branch line goes, that sounds like a wonderful layout, although I would want to have some continuous running in there. I agree with you about the larger engines being somewhat out of place. As of now I have a 4-4-2 Atlantic type and an 2-8-0 H-10 Consolidation. I certainly favor the consolidation as it looks more at home on my curves. I would certain like a decapod for coal dragging though. . The idea of having multiple short spurs that then connect to something larger sounds like it would be very fun to operate. Do you think that this would include an interchange yard? thanks.


also, I plan on operating solo as none of my friends are into trains and my father does N scale and isn't that great with technology. Maybe a branchline would be good. I mean, I like operating and smaller cars and engines. Most of my rolling stock are 2 bay coal hoppers and a few 36 foot Atlas O reefers.

quote:

Originally posted by TheRailKing:

...although I would want to have some continuous running in there.

Do you think that this would include an interchange yard?

Yes, you could include an interchange yard and continous running.

Almost an entire month later and I still have nothing to show for it. All of my plans look exactly the same and I am completely at loss. Read books at the library, magazines, looked at track plans and whatever I make all comes out looking the same.

Why don't you build out the bench work to fill as much of the space as you can, then start fitting the track in? My philosophy is the base level is the background where I run the longest trains. Multitrack. Then once you get that set, design an upper level with a lot of bridges. The upper level effectively divides the main level into vignettes and is covered by part of the upper level. The upper level is closer to eye level and with the bridges will demand much attention. The reality is that in any space there's really only a few options for the bench work once you consider aisles. Just build it with screws so you can change it if you need to. Btw. I didn't fool with elevations and connecting the levels. In a layout as large as yours it looks great without them. Much less complicated. You have plenty of room for various scenes for trains to pass through.

It's been my experience that a good plan is the best time spent on building a layout especially a large one.   At least get a rough idea down on paper(or computer). I suggest making a list of your must haves and your like to haves. Get all your must haves in first then see if there is room for the likes.

Just my two cents.

Steve C.