UPDATE: AND ITS NOT GOOD. legacy lionmaster challenger product # 6-82694 need help please.

First, congrats on the engine, those are nice ones.   I have the greyhound version from the same time period.

I'm sure others who are way more technical than me will jump in, but a few questions.  Have you tried to run it in conventional and do you get any response there?  Also, I'm sure you have but confirm all the switches underneath are in the right place?  Have you tried the remote command to turn the lights on / off?  Does the crew/ tower com work?

I'm just trying to judge what if commands the engine is receiving.  That might help me and others diagnose the issue.

To me it does sound like a board issue but being new in box I'd like to hear what others give as some troubleshooting ideas.  I had a Lionmaster Legacy BB 4011 with a board issue that had similar symptoms as yours, mine was older so not repairable, lucky for you lionel has those parts.  Too bad you just missed the 50% off sale.

You're way too late for warranty repairs, you have to be the original owner and the warranty is for one year from date of purchase.  Add to that this is a nine year old locomotive, and it's way out of the three years from date of manufacture limit as well.

Check and see if the TMCC receive on top of the main RCMC board is secure, and carefully note if any of the pins are broken, they're brittle and that happens.

I have the TMCC receiver if that part is bad, Lionel no longer sells them as a separate part.

thanks art and john. john I will check that board tonight. if I need one I will let you know. thanks again guys.

I can also test your RCMC if needed.  I built myself a test set for those boards.

thanks john, I may just let you do that. Saturday when I get a chance to mess with it I will take a closer look at it. its not going to be very complicated to fix.

unlike my other lionmaster engines with multiple pc boards like the r4lc and motor drivers,reg boards and such. this thing seems to be engineered much better. the electronics package is fairly simple.

they also got the smoke output right. when this engine was being tested by me and the smoke unit was operating. it was smoking me out the room.

can not wait to get this one fixed and going again. this engine was always on my to get list and its going to fit my current layouts curves just great.

my luck with buying used engines at least for these last two was not very good. both had issues,but luckly they were or are fixable.

I buy used engines with the assumption that I'm likely to have to do some work on them.  I also price my offer accordingly.

john, I usually do the same. the sellers offer was fair given this engine is hard to find. especially new in the box.

I checked the pins on the receiver board. they were ok. I serviced the smoke unit just to be sure the batting was not chared. due to it running on high while I was testing it.

this design was so nice to work on. it is mounted to the shell and removal and installation is easy. plus the smoke funnel was finally done right by lionel this time.

this accounts for why the smoke output is so great compared to my older lionmaster challenger which is legacy. that one unfortunately needs a smoke unit thats no longer available.

so I am going to gut it and use the electronics as parts and just put blunami in it next year.

also I just went ahead and ordered the rcmc from lionel. since this engine has whistle steam. I figured this board is specific to this engine programming wise.

so trying another rcmc from that same time frame out of a desiel I have would just be a wast of time. so I will wait for the new board to arrive and let everyone know the outcome.

I belive when this is fixed its going to be the best lionmaster engine in my collection. cant wait to get the part.

@Lionelzwl2012 posted:

this accounts for why the smoke output is so great compared to my older lionmaster challenger which is legacy. that one unfortunately needs a smoke unit thats no longer available.

It's rare that you need to replace an entire smoke unit, what is the product number of the Challenger?

thanks john, the lionel # is 6-11200. the issue was the smart smoke pcb had parts broken off by me unfortunately. I am not sure I even have it anymore. I maye have tossed the smoke unit.

I was running it with out it. just turning off the smoke. then the chuff switch started acting up. so now I tryed to replace the chuff switch to get it fixed.

it just will not give off chuff sound anymore. I have tried the wiring to the chuff switch multiple ways btw. just could not get any chuffing sounds.

I took out the ac reg board prior installing the new chuff switch since the smoke unit did not work anyway. my plan was to use it in another engine that needs one.

maybe that has somthing to do with the chuffing. I was not sure. the engine is still on my bench. just got frustrated with it and have yet to go back and mess with it.

Bummer as it's easy to fix unless you've physically wrecked the actual PCB.

That is a bog standard analog smoke unit, easily replaced with a compatible unit.  However, that model uses the old Legacy modular boards, and also the now unobtainium smoke voltage regulator.  That was the part that most often failed.

update guys, got the new RCMC board to day. before installation l took a screen shot of the board to help me to know where the molex plugs were plugged.

I have attached before and after screen shots so you can see I installed it correctly.

it ran great for about 10min then stopped altogether. no movment no lights no crewtalk.

background sounds were the only thing that was working. tried reseting tmcc ID #. still nothing. tried reprogramming the engine to restore tmcc functions per my instruction sheet on this.

I used the aux1 code for legacy engines. nothing again. seems this board is defective also. question did somthing else cause this board to go south or was this board just bad also? whats going on here?

installing these rcmc boards is easy and straightforward. what is going on here? why did mine fail a second time?

maybe lionels got a bad batch of these they are selling and do not know it.

I am calling them 1st thing monday and sending it back and I hope they give me another one. this is getting annoying and starting to p@$$ me off.

I may quit buying older lionel legacy engines if this keeps up. below are the screen shots before and after to prove I installed the molex plugs correctly.

Better check the motors...

Being 9 years old, I'd pull the motors.  Disconnect them from the control boards, etc.  Check each with a DC power supply and look at the amps it pulls with no load.  Also make sure the linkages run smooth and free from binding.

I'd still look for a pinched wire, etc.  I would guess the board received was good until something happened to it...  Given that you ran it for ~10 min.  By the way, did it stop while it was in a curve or was it on straight track?  Going through a curve may have moved wires, etc.

The engine was not crusing as it should in one corner of my layout. Check all the wires they were ok. Repacked the smoke unit and put the shell back on. It's then it stoped working altogether.

Classic story of a pinched wire if it stops working right after putting the shell back on!  If you need to test the RCMC, I can do that for you.

thanks for the offer john. once I contact lionel and see what they say. I may send it to you.

btw guys there are no pinched wires anywhere. this engine is not cramed full of electronics like some earlier lionmasters were.

it was working fine. I then took off the shell. removed the one screw holding the smoke unit bracket. this one is mounted up inside the front of the shell.

repacked the unit,adjusted the thermistors and reassembled and then put the shell back on. then turned on power to the track and started up the engine. then nothing no light,no movement, no smoke, no crewtalk ect. only background sounds comming from the tender.

I have been told these engines had board issue from the factory. maybe this one was plaged also.

question: not quite sure how to phrase it.  but do these rcmc board versions either work or do not work?  kinda like a smoke resistor its either on or off. can they be working fine one minuet and then just fail?

I would take GRJ’s offer. Send him the board. You’ll know where you stand with a repair if needed.

The RCMC, as a general rule, is not failure prone.  However, external forces can kill them.

one last question I promise. I need some thermal grease when I install the next rcmc board I get. last time I used what was there already. It seemed there was enough maybe I was wrong. what type or brand is best to use here?

just did a forum search on thermal grease. pat answered my question in a previous post. going to amazon to order some.

maybe thats what caused my board to fail. not enough thermal grease applied between the rcmc and heat sink and it overheated. lesson learned the hard way if that was the case.

as socroties once said. the more you think you know.there is always more to know.

I'd look further. 

It failed after you reassemble, not sure enough time for it to overheat.

That famous Athenian is generally known as "Socrates."  With Goggle, it's not hard to look things up if you are in doubt ...

@B Smith posted:

That famous Athenian is generally known as "Socrates."  With Goggle, it's not hard to look things up if you are in doubt ...

You might have better results with Google

Absolutely!!   Google is definitely the way to go.  I "Googled" the term "Goggle" and it took me to the right place anyway -- AI is a lot smarter than I am.

While the thermal grease is important, it's truly not likely that was the issue here.  I've seen these come in with the RCMC loose on it's mount, clearly not any meaningful thermal transfer, and the engine was running for years.