Advice or any help on small layout

@Reptile82

I have a similar space. Actually 8' on the left X 12' along the back X 10' on the right. I designed this plan to fit the space.

Two track main, 042 inner (green line), 054 outer (yellow/ blue line). I've not built it so I can't say how it would actually build out but it's a start.

The blue line is elevated over the yellow. Good mix of switching and main line running. Some reach issues to the rear corners but I will accept them if I do build it.

I've attached the SCARM plan also.

I am running into similar issues with having engines already that will only take O72 curves (several Lionel GTEL’s and a Big Boy on order, along with GGD cars)or larger. I have a similar space requirement (12x15) and have been at a bit of a loss. I have been brainstorming some different ideas on Anyrail 6. I bought the full program, as it’s quite nice to put in the parameters to build within the space you have allotted. I have changed my mind several times as to how I want to run this, but figured I’ll have smaller curves (O48-O60) for a lot of my rail stuff, most of which can run it, and have a separate switched line that will run the perimeter at a nice brisk O110 or O120 curve. It will need to be graded in order to have the trains run overhead as I come in the door, or you can run a lift bridge as well, but that seems like a lot of work for a little gain. So in short, maybe try running a line or two around the room, with maybe some slight grade changes to get over a door, or a duck down spot to enter the control/viewing area, then you won’t be as concerned with turns, then you can have a separate or switched line to smaller curves for running “other” trains that can take those smaller turns. Long cars look bad on small curves, small cars and big cars BOTH look great on big curves. As I have seen many times on this forum, biggest curves always equal best results.

@MingleRR posted:

I am running into similar issues with having engines already that will only take O72 curves (several Lionel GTEL’s and a Big Boy on order, along with GGD cars)or larger. I have a similar space requirement (12x15) and have been at a bit of a loss. I have been brainstorming some different ideas on Anyrail 6. I bought the full program, as it’s quite nice to put in the parameters to build within the space you have allotted. I have changed my mind several times as to how I want to run this, but figured I’ll have smaller curves (O48-O60) for a lot of my rail stuff, most of which can run it, and have a separate switched line that will run the perimeter at a nice brisk O110 or O120 curve. It will need to be graded in order to have the trains run overhead as I come in the door, or you can run a lift bridge as well, but that seems like a lot of work for a little gain. So in short, maybe try running a line or two around the room, with maybe some slight grade changes to get over a door, or a duck down spot to enter the control/viewing area, then you won’t be as concerned with turns, then you can have a separate or switched line to smaller curves for running “other” trains that can take those smaller turns. Long cars look bad on small curves, small cars and big cars BOTH look great on big curves. As I have seen many times on this forum, biggest curves always equal best results.

On any layout I have ever designed  , I have used KISS.  ( Filling every square inch of a train table with track  doesn't make it better)   Use the biggest curves you can,  Use a quality track system. when putting in a siding  it should do something  (Not  holding 1 car! )  1 or more Passing sidings.   Keep you grads at a minimum 2% or under.  allow access to your track without having to crawl up on the table , its that easy  from what you described you have the concept

@RSJB18 posted:

@Reptile82

I have a similar space. Actually 8' on the left X 12' along the back X 10' on the right. I designed this plan to fit the space.

Two track main, 042 inner (green line), 054 outer (yellow/ blue line). I've not built it so I can't say how it would actually build out but it's a start.

The blue line is elevated over the yellow. Good mix of switching and main line running. Some reach issues to the rear corners but I will accept them if I do build it.

I've attached the SCARM plan also.

That's a really nice plan Bob.

Not sure why SCARM makes such a mess when it 3D renders it, but it looks great.

John

I will look into that. Is SCARM a good one to get?

@Craftech posted:

That's a really nice plan Bob.

Not sure why SCARM makes such a mess when it 3D renders it, but it looks great.

John

Thanks John. In 3D it's  a mess....

I added hidden storage off the yellow line and down the center aisle to 6 sidings under the engine yard too.

@Reptile82 posted:

I will look into that. Is SCARM a good one to get?

It's not bad. The freeware version let's you design it to a certain number of track sections. After that the full version is reasonably priced.

Bob

@Reptile82 For Ideas check out @Mark Boyce @RSJB18 and my TwinPines railroad pages.  We all have tight spaces to work in and run 3rail. You have plenty of room for 072 diameter curves - its just a 6 foot diameter circle.  What you are not going to be able to do are 072 reversing loops. You might consider working in the 072 as a square and then run tighter track inside for the operating portion.

I talk about this in my posts. When we have tight layouts we need to consider using curved switches to obtain a decent layout. It is often really difficult to try to fit in turnouts (switches) because they need straight track which we often do not have. Especially with 072.

With regard to the existing 072 track, they can be used to transition to tighter curves. It will open up a bit more room. This can be 072-064-064-072 or 072-052-052-074. Unless you can exchange them for the tighter diameter curves, this will help avoid buying more curves.

I use SCARM and have found it to be a decent planning tool.  // Its unlikely your Greenbriar will run on 042. // Mark Boyce wanted elevation changes on his layout, there are "tricks" used to be able to get the elevation you need. But unless you get really creative, decide now to use 3% to 4% grades. You will have to watch the transitions for smooth operations. // I started thinking traditional sizes (027) would be all I wanted, then found out passenger cars needed 042 and then found out about scale trains and the big iron that needed 072 minimum. What a journey!   Enjoy yours.

Another alternative for track planning software -- ANYRAIL.  Gentle learning curve and intuitive commands.  There's a limited-use free version, but the full version is affordable and regularly updated.  I've attached the plan of my layout rendered as a JPG file via ANYRAIL for reference.  I hope it's helpful to you.

Carry on, regardless ...

Mike M.   LCCA 12394

Hi @Reptile82, ScoutingDad clued me in to your new thread.  I’ll send you a shot of the SCARM plan he and others helped me with when I get on the computer.  11x11 room too.  If you want a preview select the link in my signature line, Blackwater Canyon Line

I don't know what your plans are for scenery and accessories, but realize that roads and buildings are going to take up more room than you think. I'm working on a layout right now in a small space, and finding room for a main street is proving difficult. If you don't care about any of that, you'll have better reach and should be able to fit more track. However, landscaping tricks can be used to make a small layout look larger.

Thank you guys! Mr. Boyce, you have a lot of pages on the thread I found. I will read through them when I have more time. I like your layout a lot. I just wonder if the mth premier greenbrier would negotiate it with no issues. ScoutingDad thank you so much! I will definitely look at them. Again thank you all!

Yes, indeed, I have a lot of pages, and I went back and went with different variations of plans before ending up with what I have.  Here is the as-built SCARM capture of my layout.  The curves are all 054.  I am suspicious your Greenbrier needs 072, but don't know that for sure.

The point is you can get a lot into an 11x11 room, but it takes some careful planning and realizing when something isn't working out, to stop building, tear some out if necessary, and go another route.

I believe that an around the walls layout may allow you to achieve your goal of 072 curves. We have 12x16 and all of our curves are 072. But we have a fairly simple track plan. Anyway you might think of an around the wall arrangement.
Good luck and have fun.
John

Attached is a plan example using O-72 and O-60 curves, that fits in 8'x8'.   I do not recall where this plan came from.  It runs three trains.  Simply adding 3 feet of straights on each side makes your 11'x11'.  This is one of the best examples that I have found to fit the most track in the smallest space.  A space-saving feature is having the cross-over switches at an angle in the second circuit.  Note that there are double cross-overs between each circle.