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Greetings All,

I'm looking for any suggestions/additions to this planned layout design. I plan on using Fastrack 084 and 072 curves with 072 command switches. You'll be able to see where there is accend/decend in the track design. I'm currently deployed with the USAF in the 'Stan for my 3rd flying tour and will start to put this all together upon my return home in 2 months for a gentleman that wants to enjoy running trains with his grandchildren. He asked for my help in building this due to my involvement in the hobby. He wants to be able to run 3 trains and have a small yard with roundhouse/turntable and engine servicing facility. He wants to keep it somewhat simple but fun and interesting to run trains along with good scenery ie mountains,tunnels,waterfalls,streams,bridges rural farmland and a village. He likes the D&H and NYC RRs ( gee my favorites too) during the transition era. I've watched this fine group of folks do amazing things to help one another out with ideas for each others layout plans so that's why I'm putting this plan out there for review/discussion. Another gentleman is designing the track layout using CAD and will do the carpentry work as well as this will be a somewhat enclosed room in his basement with viewing windows. I welcome and appreciate everyone's comments. I will try to check this post as often as my mission schedule allows.

 

Many thanks in advance for your time and energy.

 

Cheers,

Lance

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I have some concern about using a double-slip switch on what I believe will be a high-traffic route.  Since there are not two independent paths I would have only a single track over the bridge by completing each Y before they reach the bridge.

 

I would also straighten the lead-in to the turntable.  Doing so will reduce the swing of the boiler as it enters the turntable.  Also, consider adding a second, parallel lead so an engine can be serviced while another enters and leaves.

 

Any activity in the yard will likely foul two of your three continuous operating loops.  To correct this you would need to create a yard lead to keep the switcher off the mainline.  This would require a redesign of the whole yard/turntable area.

 

Will there be any industries?  Operating accessories?  Or possibly a passenger station where a holding siding could be used?  These last comments may lead to a more complex layout

 

Will he be using TMCC, DCS or another wireless system?

 

Jan

WOW ya see I knew extra sets of eyes would find things we missed and they are all excellent points!

George: thanks for the positive comment and yes the reach is being studied and most places can be reached either from inside or from the viewing windows we figured but will continue to look at and make modifications as needed. As long as we can reach the trains we're ok not so worried about scenery outside of the outermost track.

 

Jan: Very good points! The gentlemen involved in this with me are watching everyone's posts so this is a great discussion with very helpful tips. We will be using TMCC. Yes a station will be where the village is proposed and a siding could be put in there. Yes some businesses along the route. I was thinking of just what you said about coming into the turntable straight. I'd like to put 2 or 3 servicing tracks off of that as well and a few outside of the roundhouse.

 

Foxchaserr: My pleasure Sir! No thanks needed. I love my country! Been doin' it since 1980 and have no regrets, Uncle Sam has been very good to me and my family. My children serve as well. I know there are many vets on this forum and they have been very helpful to me in this great hobby we share. It won't be long before I hang up my flight suits and trade them for throwin' levers on a locomotive fulltime!

 

Thanks again to all for your thoughts and good advise!

 

Cheers!

Jan,

"...concern about using a double-slip switch ..."

 

I would definitely agree with you, but I can't find the double-slip switch. I imagine we are looking at the same layout, below? That is, unless it is what I thought was a crossing, just above the dual track bridge?

 

JRoemer Layout 01

 

 

Thx!

 

Alex

 

See my Hidden Pass Junction RR layout under construction here:

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/2415514336550790

 

 

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Images (1)
  • JRoemer Layout 01

Lance

 

35x19 is a wonderful amount of space to work with and going with an around the walls design will make the most of it.  However, there some significant disadvantages to this design that should receive consideration.

 

The first one is reach in.  Depending on the layout height and the individual a max reach in of 30 to 36 inches is a good number to use as a design criteria.  Much of the track in this design is a long way from the edge of the layout, especially the yard area behind the roundhouse.  Derailments will happen there.  How can they be reached?

 

The design also has two duckunders and would likely need some pop ups added to allow access to tracks that are far from the layouts edge.  Hinged bridges are ok at the beginning  and end of an operating session but tend to stay down if people want to come and go while trains are running.  The older people get the more disadvantageous duck unders and pop ups become.  You might not totally eliminate duckunders but if their number, width and the frequency of their use can be reduced it will likely make for a happier grandfather.

 

There is a lot of square footage covered by plywood and relatively little left open for aisles.  Beyond the reach in problems that has created it will also be a problem if more than a few people want to see the layout in operation. 

 

Fastrack is a great track system for train sets and simple layouts but, like any traditional sectional track system, it has limited options for curves and switches that constrain design options when trying to tailor a design to a unique space.  If you consider Atlas, MTH Scaletrax or Ross/Gargraves track you will have far greater design options, make more efficient use of the available space, add operational flexibility and build a more user friendly layout.

 

Let me use Ross/Gargraves for specific examples of the of some of the limitations of a traditional track system that could be overcome here.  Ross might be particularly good for you to consider for an alternative track system.  Their switches are top notch, it uses pins like traditional track so many of the building techniques are familiar to O gaugers and Ross offers the widest variety of switch configurations available.

 

Someone mistook your crossing as a double slip switch.  There is no double slip switch available in the Fastrack line.  Atlas makes one and so does Ross.  With a crossing you can run around the room as an oval or a large figure eight.  With a double slip switch the layout could be run as a large oval, a figure eight or two smaller ovals.  If a compact double crossover was added (also available from Ross) in place of the crossing or double slip the layout could be run as a large loop, a large figure eight or two totally independent smaller loops.

 

Using numbered switches also allows tighter track spacing on sidings and in yards.  You could have much more yard capacity in the same square footage by using Ross #4 or Ross Regular (#5) switches.  Track spacing on curves of 6 inches center to center will allow the largest steam and electric locomotives to pass the longest car without collision.  Fastrack   O-72 and O-84 curves sections fit this criteria perfectly but the lack of Fastrack numbered switches means you have to waste a lot of space in yards and on crossovers between parallel strait tracks.

 

To get a more flowing track design, fewer duckunders and pop-ups, shorter reach-ins and more space for people consider a track system like Ross/Gargraves and a benchwork technique like L-Girder construction with cookie cutter sub-roadbed.  With a layout that protrudes less from the walls you could have room for a center peninsula.  Peninsulas provide great scenic opportunities for main lines or can be used for yards and engine terminals that can be reached from either side.  Best of all they can be walked around rather than ducked under.

 

If you are interested in thinking further about design and construction techniques I have two recommendations.  First, Jim Policastro has posted some great information here on L-girder construction including photos.  If you haven't worked with L-girder before they can be very helpful for understanding what can be done with that technique.  Very strong benchwork can be built with nothing larger than a 1X4 and 2X2 and the flowing shapes possible with L-girder can enhance track planning and improve the movement of people through a layout room.  Second, check out Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong.  It is the standard reference for layout design for good reason and is full if ideas that come from the 1:1 scale world that make running 1:48 scale operations not just more realistic but more reliable and enjoyable.

 

 

 

Last edited by Ted Hikel

Patrick-

Thanks and no the construction has not started yet. It's funny that you comment on this because in my first meeting with Jim about building a train layout YOUR layout was the first thing I showed him on this forum! He was impressed! He has the amount of room similar to what you have. It may get bigger ya never know!?

 

Ted-

Wow great comments and I thank you as well. You have brought many ideas to light and will definitely see what Jim thinks as he is keeping up with this discussion. He has a fantastic designer on board with this project and I'm confident we will come away with a great layout thanks in part to everyone on the forum. This is why I posted the plan here. I know Jim Policastro and live near him and I'm going to try to get some feedback from him as well.

I'd like to see your idea of a yard and roundhouse giving the area we have or something different from your perspective if you have the time. I like Gargraves track do you think we could mix it in in areas that are tight and say keep the mainlines all Fastrack?

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW

Putting all the layout rules aside

IMHO with that kind of space a duckunder is not worth the 4 ft of track you'd give up and actually the mainline would probubly be longer. its one thing to push the limits on tracks you cant reach,but switches,NO WAY.  I ll admit I never read any layout books , but would like to maybe offer some small ideas if your looking for any new ones.

Actually with that kinda of space you shouldnt have to violate any of the rules.

 

 

So  would you be open to some other designs?

 

 

Theres probubly a few that would love to.

 

I have to agree with Patrick H.

 

I also think the crossing just above the double track bridge is too much. IMHO.

 

Also one wye is plenty, why use two when you have what seems to be tons of routes and switches already. I can already see a train spearing another broadside at that crossing... and a bridge to boot. (With a drop to the concrete floor perhaps?)

 

Finally but not last, you would want to use a lot less wood and open up that middle space quite a bit. With that much space, you should consider a Z or similar total walk around.

 

I do NOT wish to be viewed as a ... harsh critic, I want you to have a plan that will work both physically within your reach and save on the wood.

 

I/we thank you for your Service!

Patrick and Lee,

Please draw some of your ideas that's why I posted this. i am open to ANY and ALL ideas and comments, have at it!!! The owner would like 3 trains to operate, a yard, roundhouse/turntable/service facility, grades, bridges, some on-line businesses and good scenery.

 

Thank you all once again for your time,

Cheers!

With that much space, take your time planning and don't be in a hurry to build. I see lots of good advice in the previous posts.

 

Consider a plan that can be built in stages. Avoid duckunders and drop tables as much as possible. And instead of filling all the space with track and table, consider reserving some space for work area, display shelves, visitor area etc.

Last edited by Ace

This is somewhat of the first idea shape.Track will climb over itself. I have to figure which is goin to be be the first level and second level and grades. Im thinking the yard and turntable would be the 2nd level.Then add some  bridges and industry and reverses.And connect the other end of yard so you can run  through it. Just wonderin as far as the general shape?  You can see already the mainline is twice as long.everything is very easy to reach except the front wall .Turntable can be moved around. A drop out can be put right along turntable as well as 2 against the front wall with 2 massive bridges . The aisles are 32" min.

 

I have one more shape i can try. These are just for ideas, of course there would be alot of tweaking and adding reverses over lakes and and through industry and towns. Not sure of the door opening size.

35x19

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Images (1)
  • 35x19
Last edited by Patrick H

Lance

 

Patrick has given you a nice idea of what a layout with a peninsula might look like in that space.  It still has some habitability challenges with a looooong reach to the back of the turn table and narrow aisles on both sides of the peninsula.  A pop-up could get you to the back of the turntable and the main tracks beyond.  The narrow aisles also serve to illustrate the restrictions imposed by an all sectional track system like Fastrack.  With flextrack (Gargraves or ScaleTrax) those long strait main line sections could be curved in to give wider aisles and a more natural visual appearance.  That is one of the advantages of L-girder construction with cookie cutter sub-roadbed, it naturally lends it self to using flextrack and is perfect for sweeping curves and mountain scenery.

 

 

Take a look at the on the mail level of the On30 layout design by Chiloquin Russ on this thread.

 

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/4527055142333783

 

It has separated the yard and roundhouse, has great access to both and wraps the yard lead around the round house.  Rich should like that and so will the dispatcher and crews. 

 

Here is a design by my brother Dave Hikel that puts a yard and round house together on a peninsula.

 

 

Being able the reach in from both sides offers the best access to the yard ladder and the turntable.

 

If you want to look at Dave's web sight for more drawings and photos you can have a look here.

 

http://sites.google.com/site/hikelogauge/Home

 

You might also enjoy watching this video of an operating session at the Northwest Trunk Lines.  It has scenes from the mountain main lines as well as views or crews working the Spokane yards and engine service facilities.  You can see how even with 20 tracks across the peninsula there are reasonable reach ins due to the close track spacing possible with numbered switches (ScaleTrax on the NWTL) and access from both sides.

 

http://web.mac.com/railsforfun..._Trunk_Lines_03.html

 

 

You could go with Ross switches in the yard and Fastrack on the main line but I'm not sure why you would want to.  Does the owner already have a large quantity of Fastrack?  Is it that large in comparison the the size of the proposed layout?  You could adapt from Fastrack to tubular to Ross/Gargraves but then you would still miss out on the advantages of Gargraves flex track for the main lines and be left with the noise of Fastrack.  It is ok on carpet but makes a real racket on top of a permanent layout.

WOW more very good points and ideas! Thank you once again.

 

Yes Ace planning is important and we don't want to rush it!

 

Patrick I like your drawing and look forward to your other choice as well.

 

Yes the switching lead is very important Mr Melvin good catch!

 

Ted great stuff thank you much. Yes a lot of Fastrack has been purchased.

 

All great stuff here. This forum is awesome! Keep those ideas coming.

 

Lance

 

 

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