Anyone ever try this way to limit Fastrack noise?

I see no reason to do any of that. I have found once my layout has scenery the sound is very low except for the sound systems in the locomotives. But if it bothers you then try one of those ones you listed.

Unless aliens land and bring us some new materials, folks have already thought of everything, based on past discussions about sound deadening. This foam has been discussed on a number of occasions. With this deadening process, a lot is in the ear of the beholder, it seems. That stuff's cheap - try a piece under some track on your own layout, on whatever surface you're using, and see if it improves things for you. That's the only way to really tell. 

Ultimately as long as theres some type of soft material between the fastrack and your plywood it should be a big improvement. I myself used the sheets of pink insulation from the hardware store, and while many folks claim this has no sound deadening properties the difference on my layout was HUGE! There are those that do not secure fastrack with good results, fastrack is designed with carpet layouts in mind.Having said that IMO if you can secure it I would,it helps to reduce the track "undulating" under the locomotive which could loosen track connections over time. 

Rubber Roofing will also work to deaden the sound, I also use Rubber Roofing for my asphalt roads, Works well.

I did a lot of tests back two years ago - bought a db meter and literally set up experiments.  

First, I was trying to get rid of noise (sound I did not want- the white noise generated by the track/benchtop, etc.) so that I could here sound I did want - locos and click clack of wheels.

Here are the results in order, best to less effective

1) Filling the underside with hardened insulation is as/more effective than anything else at stopping noise strictly associated with Fastrack: the Fastrack plastic roadbed reverberates and spreads sound.  When clamped to a becnh-topit forms something like a tiny violin cavity and amplifies/transmits noise from the track.  

---I use a product bought at Lowes and Home Depot called great stuff - a spray can insulation foam that expands in vlume and hardens overnight.  I turn the track over and run three 3/8 inch/half inch wide beads down the length of the track, let it puff up and hardened the next day, then cut it flush with a breadknife.  The Fastrack is now a lot wquieter than it was before.

2) Any type of "acoustic" separator works pretty well like pink or blue foam, styrofoam, Homosote, cork, or rubber works pretty well at mitigating noise that comes from Fastrack or any other track/train system.  My experiments did not show a lot of difference and those differences depend, I think, on specifics that would vary.

--In my case, after experimenting, I chose to use acoustic ceiling tile: it scored slightly better in my tests, and it did work miricles.  I regret this now: when I have to modify my benchtop I have to remove this tile and it is the dustiest, messiest of the lot.  Rubber or homosote would work well as would nearly those other materials - not enough difference, really.

3) Never put nails or screws through the track and into the wooden benchtop below.  They transmit noise.  Glue track down on the top of the acoustic tile/foam/cork, rubber.  I use Liquid Nail (for foam if using foam - normal LQ melts foam).

4) Put a skirt around the benchtop - I use carpet roll: 36" wide by how-so-many-feet-you-want industrial carpet with rubber backing bought at Lowes, cut to benchtop to floor length and hung completely around the layout.  With the thickness and the rubber backing it cuts noise appreciably better than cloth. 

5) Carpet the entire floor.

6) Fill boxcars and reefers with more of that insulating foam.  I did my tests with several trains and a train pulling 21 reefers and boxcars was noticeably "noisier" than other trains.  The 'violin effect" again: the pl,astic bodies act like resonators and generate sound.  As an experiment, I filled eight with that Great Stuff foam and it quieted them greatly.  You have to decide this.  It takes work to do and when done well you can't open the doors (the insulation glues itself to them inside.  If you this, clamp the doors shut after putting a little of the foam inside, remembeing that it expands about 10x in volume. And test one car first.  I did all 22 I owned and it quieted my favorite train (LM Big Boy and a long 22 reefers) substantially.

Hey Lee: WOW!!!

i built 4'x8' sections that i attached like modules, but first each section had two 2'x4's like an "L" in each corner with rubber adjustiable feet. next heavy foam rubber like used on the bottom of garage doors was glued down using wall board glue. when dry after a couple of days i then applied wall board glue to the top of the foam rubber placed 7/16 OSB on top using dry wall screws to secure. after a week i removed all screws. i used OSB because it doesn't warp, is strong and light weight. i topped off the OSB with 1/4 cork and green felt. the modules were then screwed together and leveled with the adjustiable feet the whole assembley is on carpet. its pretty quiet.

Lee,  Thanks for posting that summary again.  I appreciate it very much.

Lee, I appreciate your posts but what you did with the fastrack is so totally unnecessary. I screwed my fastrack directly to 3/4" 7 ply birch plywood. Scenery is now in place for the most part and the sound everybody complains about is a non issue. I just don't see going to all the trouble you did to quiet down a problem that in my opinion does not exist for the most part. But again do what is best for you.

Not on my layout it wasn't unnecessary.  Screwing the Fastrack direct to the bench top and doing nothing to mitigate sound resulted in unacceptable noise.   My wife refused to stay in the room when trains were running.  They were LOUD!!!

Part of my noise problems may have been the nature of how I built my benchtop, or my layout room's shape, or my standards: we pay really good money for quality sound in premium locos, and I like to hear every nuance of the sound differences between one diesel and another, etc.  

I did build some scenery and such in my experiments to test its effects on sound, but it did little.  No one "trick" fixed my sound problem, but I gained a big reduction in db cumulatively with everything together.   I'd have to go back and find my logbooks from years ago, and I can't remember the number of db reduction, but it was night and day difference.  The room is quite pleasant now:  I can close my eyes and tell the difference in various diesels just from the sound, etc., even when they are completely across the layout.

Also, filling the underside of the track with Great Stuff completely changes the character of the rolling sound of locos and trains, too - to what I think is a much richer, more realistic, less 'white noise' sound.  All it all, I consider the time (considerable) and money (modest) I spent on these measures to be more than repaid, and I would do it again. 

As I said before, there are disageements as to what works - everyone's ears are different. Try your solution first, and see if YOU notice any difference. Some solutions, like spraying permanent foam inside boxcars, are extreme. By the way, those expanding, hardening foam products can't be removed from ANYTHING - if you overspray, you'll never get it off of any surface.

Or use earplugs.

You are right breezinup.  NOTHING can remove Great Stuff well.  Its like paint remover: there is no going back.  Filling the reefer cars was extreme, as was losing two in the process (1 to experiment and 1 to a mistake) but I got a train that sounded good to me!

Well, I like the carpet underlayment idea.  I too have a noise problem, and it is worse with wood ties.  My Atlas track with plastic ties is actually quieter, and all is on a layer of Celotex, which should have quieted it down, but didn't.

Quietest track I ever heard was Milt Sorenson's - he used the old rubberized indoor-outdoor carpeting, and on top of that Tru-Scale roadbed, and you could not hear anything associated with steel wheels on track.  Your solution just might work!

Hey Lee, Great Stuff!

There is no easy or cheap way to make FastTrack quiet.  This wasn't a design consideration when they were making the track or roadbed.  

There are acoustical dampening products that will cut the sound down.  You can get the asphalt based stuff used for automotive sound systems which are messy and tend to be once applied and it isn't going anywhere.  You could apply this to the underside of the track but you loose access to the electrical connectors, etc.  You could use the stuff meant to blanket a suspended ceiling to retrofit a room for sound dampening.  This stuff is mass loaded vinyl sheeting.  It's about 2$/sq foot and weighs about 1 to 2 lbs per square foot.  Not as messy as asphalt but it adds significant weight on the train table.

Due to my not having as much strength as many of you, my benchwork is designed to be lightweight. (2" x 1" frame with 1/4" MDF surface. Nothing heavier than I can carry up the stairs to my train room.)  This does not help at all in sound dampening, and at first it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation when trains were running.  I have found that using thin sheets (Approx 4mm) of the inexpensive sound insulating fibre-board material designed to be used under parquet flooring, work wonderfully in soaking up the sound. Once covered with grass-mat they provide a good solid surface on which to mount my FastTrack. The track is held in place by use of screws just long enough to grab the insulating material, but not quite long enough to reach the MDF.  I also use those little adhesive felt pads for furniture  on the parts of the framework that rests upon the IKEA 'Expedit' units that I use to provide a solid base support structure that also provides storage space. (And they are inexpensive too.) 

These simple measures have reduced the transmitted rail sound down to the level that allows easy conversation even with the locomotive sounds at full volume. 

Nicole.

If you are worried about noise switch to any other brand of track other then Fastrak!! The majority are a fraction of the cost and are a far better design for contact and noise.

The problem with the poor design of the track is that you have a metal u shapped rail mounted directly to the hard plastic track base, there are little plastic pins that stick up inside the track to keep it in place. This design is am amplifier of noise. Which transmits and is further amplified by the hollow plastic under the track especially when screwed or floating on a hard surface. Anything to reduce the contact underneath and fill the hollow space will help but most of the noise comes from the rails hollow area and contact with the plastic base.

I set up several short term displays a various train shows etc. each year;  K-Line Super Snap, Gargraves, Atlas and even 0-27 old Lionel track is fine on the carpets nice low noise from trains running. Stays together good contact between the pins / connectors no problems!

Fastrak even on the carpet always has considerable more noise. If you do not get it lined up  perfect will break electrical contact. After taking apart and putting together a few times the tabs that lock the track together get weak and do not hold the track together well and eventually break off.

I visited a family with kids that was having trouble keeping the trains running with Fastrak. Trains would run on one part of the layout not that big but cut out on the other part. The track was slightly off, not perfectly lined up, tabs not keeping it locked together tight and it did not make contact on lifting the track noted some burn marks on the carpet where the carpet hairs were near where the track was not lined up and it had  been arcing.

Most other types of track have a sealed rail underneath that does not amplify the noise!

Hi Nicole, Your layout sounds as if it is well thought out for your needs. That said when you use a structure that is easy to move you have to be carful that it will support an adults weight should you ever have to climb on it.

We have had more then one of our posters fall through their platform when they finaly took that short cut they swore they never would and then ouch!

There is a company that I think advertise in OGR that sells a ladder that stand next to your platform but extends about three feet over it.

Remember, be happy play safe.

I have a Fastrack layout, and used 2 different "Foam"pads to control sound. On the upper level, I used the underpadding they use under hardwood floors. The stuff is thinner than carpet padding, (3/16" vs 1/2") and has more of a "rubber" feel to it, rather than foam. This works well and it has a very smooth surface.

On my lower level, I did use carpet padding, which is actually ground up foam, that is subsequently made into padding roll. I ended up using the 2 types, as I had some of the carpet padding left over from the trainroom flooring installation, but when I needed more, I went to the flooring store, and the "hardwood underlay" looked even better for my purpose. (I liked the smoother surface)

When I was just starting, I read a number of posts regarding Fastrack, and by far, the major issue seemed to be that it was very noisy. So one of my challenges was to try to come up with a way to control the noise. I settled on the idea to cover the whole benchwork surface with the padding.

I am very happy with the performance as far as the sound control, to my ear, I couldn't see any other track system being that much better. Both pad types seem to work equally as well.

The green stuff is the hardwood underlay, and the yellowish is the carpet underlay. You can see in the pic that the surface of the green stuff is a lot smoother.

As far as Fastrack performance, I have 2 independent mainlines, that are connected (actually, the 2 switches connecting the loops is shown in the upper part of the picture). I have 16 remote Fastrack turnouts, and about 250 sections of track, and when I initially set up the track, before actually fastening anthing down, it all worked fine, with just a single power drop. I have since added another 12 or so power drops just to be safe, but I was quite amazed that it all worked with just the one initially.

REV

Thanks for the advice Mario, but I've got that covered too.  

By building my frames in a modular-ish design (Connected together by hinges with removable pins.) I have been able to incorporate several access holes. The square 'Expedit' units are of a sufficient height (800mm) to allow easy access underneath, so I never have to risk climbing over anything. To make getting around underneath the layout easier, i purchased one of those little wooden trolley thingies intended for car mechanics, and if I park my bum on that, I can scoot around under the layout quite easily. (Having reached an age where carbon dating is now required. This makes life sooooo much easier.)

The ladder sounds like a good idea though, and is a great option for any who don't wish to be mistaken for meerkats. 

These are the 'Expedit' units that I use instead of legs for my benchwork. Very cheap, very easy to build (Only 7 pieces to put together.) and very strong too. With the added benefit of giving you lots of storage shelves for power supplies, controllers, and the inevitable zillion boxes we tend to collect.

Nicole.

One thing I don't see mentioned in the thread sound absorption foam. My company lines the interior of a metal cabinet to reduce the sound from some very loud machinery.  The difference is rather striking.  Without the cabinet you have to shout to be heard.  With the cabinet and sound absorbing foam one can carry on a normal conversation.  I don't live near the factory now or I'd grab some and try it out.  I think it would reduce Fastrack noise significantly.

Looked up that sound absorbtion product for metal cabinet, it's actually made for PCs.

At the prices listed you would go into a big expense to do track work!

The foam and a similar type of vibration reducing tape work fairly well.  They are expensive though, and I think to get good effect you would probably have to put some on the underside/at strategic places on the benchtop, too. 

Looking back, though, it probably would have been best to use the tape or foam on those reefers I filled with Great Stuff, instead. 

As most are aware, the topic of quieting FasTrack comes up on the forum on a regular basis.  The ideas compiled by forum members to do additional work in making the track quieter just shows how ingenious members are. 

As far as my experience with FasTrack, I have a small to medium size layout which is 11' X 14' and it has been in use for over 5 years now.  I laid my FasTrack down on 5/8" homosote on top of 5/8" plywood.  I ran my scenery material up over the sides of the track roadbed (as one member suggested some years ago) and it really helped with the plastic reverberation mentioned above. 

I run my trains rather slow, a more realistic way I believe, especially on a smaller layout and the only thing I here is the sound from the train and the click-it-e-clack of the cars.  If you use any locomotive which has engine sounds, it overpowers any track noise anyway.  I am very happy with my installation of FasTrack, the looks, the great performance of the switches and after weathering with brown/black washes, it looks good also.

Choosing a track is a personal preference matter.  We are all fortunate to have so many choices of track today.  No matter what anyone says, it is up to the individual O gauge hobbyist to choose what he or she likes best.  No body is WRONG when it comes to an individual choosing what track to use on their layout. 

TEX

Steve

I think Steve hit the nail right on the head with this observation.  And with so many Forumites having elaborate layouts running several engines at once, I can't imagine the track noise is going to overpower the sound of all that high-end "chuffing" and diesel power!!

It did on my layout, quite a lot.  But there are several factors:

My benchtop design probably magnified sound more than others.

I always have four trains running with a total of probalby 45-50 rolling stock.  

I set volume on chuffing and diesel sounds about halfway down, so that I can't quite make out the sound across the room (25 feet away) but can hear growing more clear as each loco comes by where I am standing.  Done right this really adds a remarkable dimension to watching and enjoying the trains. 

The last is a big point with me.  I really do not want to run the trains at top volume, so I have worked to quiet things down.  

I covered my layout with a very low-profile dark green carpet from Home Depot... thought it would serve as a good base for the layout AND mitigate the Fastrack noise issues. 

Frankly, I'm stunned at how little difference it has made.  When all four trains are running, two people shouting at one another from eight feet away can barely be heard.  It's the only disappointment I've felt with Fastrack.

So I DON'T recommend carpet over plywood.

Yeah - my situation exactly.  Originally when I was running four trains two people could not communicate even with raised voices if only five feet apart. 

I can't complain though.  I chose Fastrack because of the quality and durability of switches, knowing the problems it brought otherwise.  I've been happy with it overall.

I also did some experiments in the store one day to see if I could quite Fastrack down and what I found was there are 4 basic issues;

First as Lee mentioned the main problem is the hollow base of the Fastrack. I started with cork and foam, both soft and hard, but nothing helped. Then I filled a 30" piece with silicone and that did the trick.

Second, as someone pointed, out the hollow rails. Nothing you can do about that. Solid rails will always be quiter than hollow rails.

Third, as Texspl pointed out, speed as a lot to to with it. If you ran HO or N at warp factor 9 like a lot of us o-gaugers do then they would protest loudly also.

Lastly and most interesting to me was that it seems that the older wheels are quiter than the newer "fast angle" wheels. On a given test track (after being filled and set on foam) the new rolling stock was still pretty loud, but the Post-war stuff was a lot quiter.

I would invite Lee or someone to do a more scientific test and post the results to see if they noticed the same as me.

As a side note on filling boxcars with foam, I think that would be a great idea. But I think instead of expanding foam I would get chair padding foam and cut it roughly to size and then seperate the bottom of the car and stuff it in and then reassemble. You are filling the void without do something irreversable.

Tim

Nice breakdown and ideas Tim.  I experience the same thing between my postwar and newer rolling stock.  One thing I noticed is the post war trucks are heavier than the newer die-cast trucks, quite a bit heavier.  I believe it has to do with different alloy metals used today in manufacturing the trucks and the amount of metal material making up the wheels.  Over the years the newer wheels seem to be made with less metal.  Anyway, thought you might want to know this as it may pertain to the noise problem.

TEX

Steve

It is has been my experience, Midwest Cork glued to the underside/inside the roadbed will reduce the sound substantially. To my ear, the sound (noise) is reduced 50%.

Regards,

Frank

I wonder if stuffing the underside of the train table with soft fiberglass insulation would reduce noise enough to notice.

Let us know how that works out.

Make sure you have all the wiring complete before you do it!

Here's a pic of the layout in it's early stages. When I originally built the benchwork, I was aware of the "Fastrack" noise issue, so another attempt to mitigate the sound was to use 3/4" plywood for my upper level. I think the heavier the base is, the less it will have the propensity to tansfer the "drum" effect noises. Additionally, I installed a sill gasket material on the top of all supporting wood pieces prior to installing the plywood.

I really don't know how much the sill gasket plays into the noise suppression, but that along with the carpet/hardwood floor underlay, it works for me. Again, as another poster pointed out, everyone is different as to what amount of noise is acceptable to them

Since this 1st pic was taken, the upper level actually passes through the wall at the right, and onto another benchwork extension of about 7'. Also covered with the green underlay pad. The 2x4 supports you see between the upper an lower tracks, are attached to another 2x4 which has the sill gasket material sandwiched between it and the 3/4" plywood base.

rev

Roadbed for your roadbed? Much of this sounds like going around your elbow to get

to your thumb, as the old saying goes. Uh, no.

About six inches of it seemed to have a very slight effect, not nearly as much as putting acoustic tile on the top or rubber or foam on top, etc., nor even as much reduction as putting that carpet shirt all around it.    I judged this to be effective in small measure but not worth the effort because:

a) measure that work best (see my earlier note- basically try to stop the benchtop from reverberating by either limiting its ability to or stopping sound getting to it, etc., whereas this (insulation underneath) really was just insulating against sound leaving the underside and traveling down underneath. 

b) once the benchtop reverberates or has a source of noise it transmits that noise sideways, to the braces, legs, etc.  I thought it impractical to cover everything with insulation so I felt the noise would 'escape" somehow. 

Thanks, Lee. My layout was built with 2" ridged pink foam panels under the FasTrack, and it does little to nothing to quiet the noise.

The common "pink" foam is to dense to absorb sound waves, you need something soft like regular foam padding. If you look at an aqustical room it is covered in that "eggcrate" looking gray soft foam. I don't know if it is special or not but that is what it looks like.

It is funny though, this is nothing new. I was reading an article in one of the model railroad magizines from the late forties and they were duing the same tests with HO track. What they found was the track must "float" inside the roadbed to maximize sound absorption. No I don't have the article.

The quitest layout I have ever seen (not that I've seen them all) has been tubular track with the rubber roadbed.