And.....then....C-19...throwing a wrench (or Cockney spanner) into both a ripe or financially comfortable old age.  This disease has messed up these positions for some portion? of the population.  It is not cured, still in environment, so it's effect on us is TBD.

I am not sure I understand your choice for the title of this post/thread??

IMO , the reason those of use are interested in the hobby today, is because it was one of the best toys/hobbies you could have when we were kids. 

I'm guessing toy trains probably replaced marbles and Jax. Today, electronic devices have replaced trains, slot cars and whatever else involves plugging a power pack into a wall for real hands on fun.

There will always be an exception to the rule here or there, but I think most kids would rather play on the internet, because it can take you anywhere, a train only goes in circles.

Just try watching a modern cartoon. Most go so fast they are nearly unwatchable when compared to classics like Bugs bunny.  I feel this is due to the short attention span  and need for instant gratification of children these days. They simply don't have the patience for slower moving types of entertainment be it trains or anything else.

I've had 3 children grow up exposed to my layout. None of the ever got past the ,"oh thats neat," and then off to video games or whatever.

I'm not saying its right, its just the natural progression like everything else as technology advances.

Mike Wolf is ready for retirement, but he may have also seen "the writing on the wall".

In my opinion, one of the biggest issues/problems today is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kids don't "play" anymore! When I was a "kid" in the 1940s and 1950s, we played outside in the spring, summer, and fall months, mostly in the dirt. In the winter we had toy/model trains on the floor. Now, "kids" are on their smart phones, etc.. One of the reasons that the National Railway Historical Society is rapidly loosing members (over 50% within the last 2 or 3 years), the "younger folks" would rather be texting one another, rather than attending railroad enthusiasts meets/meetings or other outings, as they would prefer to do things on their own.

@Landsteiner posted:

Are people continuing to get older and even dying,

 

 

Not if you believe what Rich Melvin has written in his signature line.

I posted abt this on another thread...but here's the short version.

No, the hobby is not dying.   40-50% of our customers are ppl new to the hobby, or ppl whove never bought from us before.

Consolidation of manufacturers and # of ppl in the hobby is happening, as with all baby boomer things, the model train hobby is far from dead. far from dead.  And we have a number of customers in their 20's and 30's.   The strongest  growing group is ppl 50-60 , who have spent a lifetime staring at screens, and want to do something tactile.  And as these ppl get older, new ppl will come in as they pass the half way point.   We also see a number of ppl who ride a tourist train, and want to get a model of they train they rode.

I don't think the hobby is dying at all I belong to a large O scale Modular club and we have many young members as well as kids coming into the hobby with their fathers or grandfathers. for the most part the kids seem to stay even as they grow up. I think the Tech end of the hobby is an important draw for them.  

Landsteiner and Beth both gave very well reasoned responses.

"I am not sure I understand your choice for the title of this post/thread??"

Sorry,  didn't mean to be obscure or offensive. It was a humorous attempt to respond to the semi-correct comments that only old people go to York, go to train shows and buy trains, and that,  since old people eventually die, the hobby will die.  That's all true, except for the last phrase. The hobby will change, probably get smaller.  Many people now in the hobby never had a toy train set in their childhood, but have become interested later on.  The editor of Model Railroad Craftsman (Otto Vondrak) is in his 40s.  The CEO of Rapido is about 39 I believe (Jason Shron).  These folks are not only young but leaders in the industry. 

New people are constantly being born, people immigrate, etc. and young people get older and develop interests.  The country's population keeps increasing despite the low birth rate. You don't see people in their 20s and 30s in hobby shops (where they still exist) in large numbers. But that doesn't mean that new people don't enter the hobby.  As mentioned above by Beth.  They enter the hobby full force later in life when they are not building their careers, raising families, and when they enter their peak earning years. 

I was also pointing out that people are spending a lot more years in a healthy, retired old age than they did in the 1940s, 1970s, etc. The past is prologue but not predictive of the future.

I am getting older with each passing minute, so yes people are getting older. 

I'm 78. Got my first Lionel in 1947, age 5. For me, it's normal to have a train running around a Christmas tree. As a kid, I knew no one that had a formal "layout" (best friend had plain plywood with track). I always loved real trains, and watched steam engines in daily operation until they made a exit around 1952 (age 10). Fast forward to 1983 when at  age 41 I decided my kids needed a train running under a tree. I loved it, but the kids yawned. Made a detailed Christmas layout in 1986, which is still in use (see photo). Built a year-'round layout for a new grandson in 2005. He loved trains, and was my Strasburg RR buddy until he turned 7. Now it just me with 2 year-round layouts (O&S), and 2 under Christmas trees. I do take overnight train trips at least once a year.

I think that my current "toy train" interest is 90% nostalgia for the "good old days". I kid people that my layouts are "dioramas of the 1950s with tracks". Good luck with the other 10% affording a bright future for the hobby. 

I'm in my 20s, and I know a lot of people from social media who are the under 30 crowd that would disagree with you.

Most younger people use Instagram versus traditional online forums. Out of the ~1200 followers I have for my Model Railroad Instagram account, about 55-60% of them are under 30.

Bryce

@NYCGreg68 posted:

I am getting older with each passing minute, so yes people are getting older. 

Spot on

I stopped getting old the second I retired......!!!!

"I'm in my 20s, and I know a lot of people from social media who are the under 30 crowd that would disagree with you."

I think if you read my second post you'll see that we agree that there is little or no danger to the hobby disappearing any time soon. My title was meant tongue in cheek.  People are,  of course,  getting older and dying. But the present generation of 50, 60 and 70 year olds will largely still be around in 20-40 years in many cases, and young people like yourself are joining the hobby at various stages of your lives.  Hence my example of the editor of RMC, who is not much older than my kids,  and the owner of Rapido, one of the more innovative and successful new companies, who is not even 40 yet, I believe.  These are people who are not only interested in the hobby (not necessarily three rail O gauge) but making careers in the industry.

Sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat or misled some readers.

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

I'm in my 20s, and I know a lot of people from social media who are the under 30 crowd that would disagree with you.

Most younger people use Instagram versus traditional online forums. Out of the ~1200 followers I have for my Model Railroad Instagram account, about 55-60% of them are under 30.

Bryce

Curious about your thoughts as a 20-something on the use of smartphone apps as part of model railroading. My thought is that the move from standalone remote control devices to smartphone apps was done, in part, to bring in the younger set. I use a TMCC remote, a DCS remote, and a LC+ remote, but have thought about buying the DCS Wifi controller so my youngest daughter, age 12, could run trains with me using her phone.

I ,for one, will not be purchasing  any trains after I'm dead! (My wife won't let me)

@Landsteiner posted:

I think if you read my second post you'll see that we agree that there is little or no danger to the hobby disappearing any time soon. My title was meant tongue in cheek.  People are,  of course,  getting older and dying. But the present generation of 50, 60 and 70 year olds will largely still be around in 20-40 years in many cases, and young people like yourself are joining the hobby at various stages of your lives.  Hence my example of the editor of RMC, who is not much older than my kids,  and the owner of Rapido, one of the more innovative and successful new companies, who is not even 40 yet, I believe.  These are people who are not only interested in the hobby (not necessarily three rail O gauge) but making careers in the industry.

Sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat or misled some readers.

Nope, I got it. My apologies if my comment came off as a little blunt. It is very hard to convey very heavy sarcasm from the written world on an online chat forum. I read your second post but I just wanted add to the fact that the younger crowd is alive and well! 

@raising4daughters posted:

Curious about your thoughts as a 20-something on the use of smartphone apps as part of model railroading. My thought is that the move from standalone remote control devices to smartphone apps was done, in part, to bring in the younger set. I use a TMCC remote, a DCS remote, and a LC+ remote, but have thought about buying the DCS Wifi controller so my youngest daughter, age 12, could run trains with me using her phone.

I personally like to use the DCS & TMCC remotes compared to the apps (easier on my eyes). But a good amount of people I converse with run everything off their smartphone or tablet, they like how they can run everything from something they already have. I have used the MTH system at a friends house, and I understand why he loves it. I like how apps are a way of connecting us "young-ins" to a classic hobby through the use of modern technology.

Bryce

@Grampstrains posted:

It would be nice to believe that but the last guy I know who made that statement died in February.

That guy was on the wrong tail of the distribution.  I plan to be rebuilding toy trains for another 20 years and I began running Lionel trains 1942.  I've told my children (3) and grandchildren (6) to be sure to not make commitments for 2038 before my wife and I set the date for our 100th birthday party.  Never too old to play with trains (but only with no electronic stuff) :-)

@raising4daughters posted:

Curious about your thoughts as a 20-something on the use of smartphone apps as part of model railroading. My thought is that the move from standalone remote control devices to smartphone apps was done, in part, to bring in the younger set. I use a TMCC remote, a DCS remote, and a LC+ remote, but have thought about buying the DCS Wifi controller so my youngest daughter, age 12, could run trains with me using her phone.

I thought this was funny and apropos:

My 14 year old asked me to get a Roku or Amazon fire stick for her television.  I told her "I have a spare Google Chromecast.  Just use that". 

She said "I don't want to use my phone.  I want something with it's own remote". 

How many thousands of Forum members are there presently? I don't recall how recently this number was posted, but the last time I saw it, it was very impressive. And this would represent a huge minority of those into O gauge in some form or fashion, many of whom don't even know the Forum exists. Lionel reported their best year ever last year. The Polar Express keeps kids' imaginations alive every year, as does Thomas the Tank Engine, and keeps of their parents digging into their wallets to purchase a train, and plant a seed.

Nice to hear Beth Marshall's report from Public Delivery Track; certainly an upbeat report from an O gauge retailer. So there's plenty of evidence to support the belief that the hobby is doing just fine. (I also think this many times when I look for items, and discover that none can be found - sold out. That's good news for the hobby.....though not always so good for me. )

My considered opinion is that people are continuing to get older and even dying. Who knew? 

Sorry, couldn't resist. I know the title was in jest. As long as there are trains, there will be model railroaders. Certain aspects will wax and wane, like postwar Lionel collectors who are thinning out now as their specific demographic ages out (and yes, dies). But then just about all of the current prewar collectors (myself included) are too young to have actually had prewar trains. So who knows?

And that is what is wrong with your title.  We are all sure you were not seriously questioning your premise.

Well, some are not privileged to get old before they die, but I am sure that is not what you meant.

"Well, some are not privileged to get old before they die, but I am sure that is not what you meant."

True, and that is a sad fact.  

But the next time someone writes that all the people at train shows have gray hair and this means the hobby is doomed, hopefully someone else will point out that this is an inadequate way to analyze the situation.

I'm 61.  As a kid my older brother had Lionel O-Gauge that got set up once in a while as it took up a lot of room.  My Dad had an N-Gauge layout that he said was ours (the kids) but we weren't allowed to touch it unless he was around.  In my teens I participated at a RR museum operating prototype (mostly electric) equipment and working on restorations.  It's where I picked up some of my better woodworking skills and tool knowledge.

I went without trains for most of my adult life - from my 20s into my 50s - and only just recently got back into the hobby.  I am the sole source of income in my household and, at current pricing, it's taken me some time to get to the point where I had both the time and the discretionary income to "play" with trains.  Still don't have a layout but can at least set up a loop/figure 8 from time to time when I want to play.

The point I'm trying to raise is that younger generations don't always lack participation in a hobby, any hobby, because there isn't interest.  Many are busy raising families and putting their dollars towards things that most would consider "more important."  Judging the interest in the hobby by those who attend shows is really limiting.  Plus, I've been to a couple shows and have seen some of the people that attend.  There are some I'd rather not be around.

@NYCGreg68 posted:

I am getting older with each passing minute, so yes people are getting older. 

Speak for yourself.  I've stayed 43 years old for the past 3 days straight. And if history is any indicator, I'll be 43 for at least another several hundred days.  Some of us just don't age like the rest of you.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

I am not sure I understand your choice for the title of this post/thread??

ROTFLMAO!  You aren't kidding!  I suspect the everyone is getting older and the sad fact is, we're all going to die at some point.  My mission is to postpone the inevitable as long as possible!

Remember, the good Lord heals all of your diseases except the last one.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

ROTFLMAO!  You aren't kidding!  I suspect the everyone is getting older and the sad fact is, we're all going to die at some point.  My mission is to postpone the inevitable as long as possible!

Yep....that is why I asked...I am in denial...!!!

@NYCGreg68 posted:

I am getting older with each passing minute, so yes people are getting older. 

.....and we all come with an expiration date.

I'm NOT dead yet!

lol

Al

Life style and genes, parts of longevity.   Always good to check-in here each morning. The health of  Aunts, Uncles, Mother, Father, siblings are an indication of our direction.   Sad to say most of my immediate group was gone before 70.  

One of my mission trips to Haiti, I mentioned/and showed pictures of my hobby to Ferdinand, my assistant.  ??? What is a hobby???   

I am alive and well, death is always at your doorstep so live every blessed day as if it is your last and not only will you fell better but you will have more to look forward to for the days to come.

BTW I was detected with esophageal cancer in 2016 did radiation, chemo and surgery followed may 2017.  Cancer matasicied back on chemo july 2019 for rest of my life , them mantle cell lymphoma showed up , so now I have 2 phase 4 cancers that I am being treated for. I won't let this hinder my daily life or outlook on the future.

Live everyday to the fullest, my glass is always full and I drink the lords blessings from it everyday and it is always being refilled to the top by him.

As for the hobby in general, I think it's a mature audience that prefers the intacatcies of a modeling hobby such as ours, a lot of thought goes into building layouts, even the most basic design,  and that takes time, money and dedication, something a video console won't give you.

Thats my soap box 2 cents worth! 

“We don’t stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” – George Bernard Shaw

Don't know about others, but I have a plan to live forever... so far it's working! 

When I was a kid back in the late 70s, slot cars, Hot Wheels, and Evil Kenevil toys were the hot items. Few kids I know played with trains and fewer were into prewar and postwar stuff like myself. In the early 80s, train shows were mobbed and prewar and postwar prices were sky high. It was mainly guys in their 40s-50s buying trains they had, or could not afford in their youth. They now had the disposable income to buy what they wanted. When I was in my 30s -40s, I had a good job and was able to buy some of the prewar/postwar stuff I wanted in the 80s. Fast forward to the present time. I still buy trains, but I also buy the Hot Wheels and toys of my youth. Many people now collect vintage Hot Wheels, but also have interest in the newer models since they came back into the hobby.

Now, attendance at train shows is a fraction of what it was in the 80s.  When I sell at trains shows, vintage slot cars sell like hot cakes. I sell some trains, but the demand is not great. There are now toy shows which specialize in 80s, 90s and 00s action figures as well as some newer models. The shows are packed. IMHO, this pattern repeats itself and will continue to do so. Some people like myself will continue to but things from my youth, but may purchase some modern items as well. As I get older, I suspect that over time the number of people interested in trains, Hot Wheels and slot cars will diminish and the demand for "newer" toys will increase. My son is 14 and has no interest in trains, Hot Wheels or slot cars. When he is in his 40s, he will probably be interested in "vintage" iPhones, Xbox and Playstation items.     

My great grandfather, grandfather and father all died at 78. As a result the day before my 78th birthday I considered walking backwards all day hoping to put off the inevitable. Anyway I am now rushing downhill to 89 and every morning thank my maker when I can stand and again when I can take steps(trusty cane assisted). My model railroading consists of riding the stairlift to my small dormant attic layout, flipping on the power kill switch, picking up the TMCC remote and energizing the dust covered Tennessean on the dust covered track for a short back and forth.

Folks it just don't get no better than this(at least it ain't going to). 

@Jushavnfun posted:

I am alive and well, death is always at your doorstep so live every blessed day as if it is your last and not only will you fell better but you will have more to look forward to for the days to come.

BTW I was detected with esophageal cancer in 2016 did radiation, chemo and surgery followed may 2017.  Cancer matasicied back on chemo july 2019 for rest of my life , them mantle cell lymphoma showed up , so now I have 2 phase 4 cancers that I am being treated for. I won't let this hinder my daily life or outlook on the future.

Live everyday to the fullest, my glass is always full and I drink the lords blessings from it everyday and it is always being refilled to the top by him.

As for the hobby in general, I think it's a mature audience that prefers the intacatcies of a modeling hobby such as ours, a lot of thought goes into building layouts, even the most basic design,  and that takes time, money and dedication, something a video console won't give you.

Thats my soap box 2 cents worth! 

Hello Jushavnfun,

I'm so very sorry to learn of your illness.  May God grant you the needed strength and blessing to get through this ordeal.  You indeed have the right attitude to life and perspective of this hobby.   

Personally I'm not going to worry whether this hobby stays viable after I'm gone as it is only a hobby.   There are people though that do earn a living from it and they in turn will adapt to any change needed to stay afloat.   

As in all things, it will pass away.  And in its place something else will fill the void.    We on the other hand must try to live our lives in such a way so as not to cause harm to others and to enjoy the blessings God has bestowed upon us.

Let's enjoy our fanaticism of modeling trains while we are still able and think positive about the future.  All of us have been blessed to live within an age that offers a rich variety of options to enjoy a hobby with as much complexity or simplicity as we desire.   

What's the old joke? 

"God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things.  At this rate, I'm going to live forever!"

OK, back to the layout!!!

George