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I am contemplating a move to AZ. Since they do not have basements in this part of the country, where do they build their layouts? I do not want to build it in a garage. How big of a house would I need for a 10 x 15 layout? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you.

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TH:

Much would depend on where in AZ you're planning to move. Phoenix and south, most of the year you'll be using AC and that becomes more expensive than heat. Upper elevations, Sedona and Flagstaff for instance, are better in that regard. The bottom line is, living space is at a premium and each square foot has a hansom price tag. Your 10 x 15 would work out pretty good as an around-the-wall setup for a nearly standard bedroom size.

 

If you're talking a metro area, there most likely are clubs that will allow you access to large running spaces - they may be your best bet.

 

Good luck on your adventure!

 

Neil 

 

Last edited by GTW

well all depends on how big of a home you need. are you single ? married? children how many? most of us have a dedicated room be it a spare bedroom an add on room to existing home or a double garage/carport converted to a AC/Heated room and the vehicles sit outside!

or like myself I enclosed both a single carport and original patio. I added a metal carport roof to allow 3 vehicles to park in the shade. 

 

now will the layout utilize all but walkway in and out of layout room? personally I would look for a home that someone has already converted the garage to living space as they will be larger than 10x15 and will allow a workbench and walkways to aid in working/running the layout your call on this.

 

looked online homes in range of 2000 sq ft usually have a room that will accomodate your layout size.

try looking at homes in AZ online not sure what city you plan on moving to.

 

I see your from snow country I suggest you leave long johns there LOL also any dark colored vehicles as az hot summers and dark colors not a good mix car lots here are full of black/dark colored vehicles trust me your arm and backside will appreciate it.

 

StPaul

Last edited by Former Member

They don't have many basements here in North Carolina either - not one in my neighborhood of 63 homes.  A lot of train layouts are built what was once a walk up attic (mine, DGJones', etc.).  Several friends here built "workshops" out back for their trains, with a covered walkway, or build a four or five car garage onto the side of the house and keep only two cars in it - and your trains.  Given that many of the roof-lines in AZ homes are low so there is not much room in the "attic" that is probably what I would do.  

Live outside the city limits, in a area that does not have zoning laws. And build a building the size you need.

100_1923My train room has a full bathroom. A work desk, Small ice box, DVD and TV and Bed. Storage for the extra trains and for the wives Christmas boxes under the layout.

 

Build it for the wife to have an storage area, then it will have to have A/C and heat so not to damage the wife's stiff. And then you will have to build something over her stiff so it will not get dust on it (like a train layout).

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Last edited by CBS072

A - if you have a house built, you can have a basement built under it. I live in

the Sunbelt, also (Southeastern, however), and basements are not common, but neither are they unheard of. The "walkout basement" (split-level home) is the most common here "basement" in neighborhoods with rolling topography. Not really a classic Yankee basement, though.

 

B - I had a 12X24 insulated and air conditioned (window unit) building built in my back

yard 20+ years ago. Not too expensive, and does the job. Obviously, lot size

and zoning regs are important, but a building such as that can solve your layout

issues well - and keep your stuff away from those who don't "understand". Especially if you don't acquire too much...which I have, but that's just me. My workbench is in the building, also. 

 

"B" can be an effective solution.

Last edited by D500

You've got lots of options. In Tucson, where I live, many newer houses feature a "bonus room" that can be used as a spare bedroom, home office, recreation room, pool hall, studio, workshop - or train room. Also, guest houses (commonly referred to as "mother-in-law houses") are fairly common. You can look for one or the other of those.

 

In my case, I got lucky. The first owner of my house was some kind of small-time contractor and he built a 1000 square foot workshop building out back, complete with an overhead garage door, covered porch, built-in cabinets and work benches, a bathroom, and a separate room for a home office. It also has four skylights, three ceiling fans, and a 240 volt outlet in the floor for the table saw. The room originally built as an office is now my train room. The main workshop bay houses woodworking equipment and is where I work on trains, build furniture, etc. Needless to say I love the place. 

 

Here's an interior shot of the workshop. This is from several years ago; the plywood module at far left is now part of my layout.

 

 

Shop_0909

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Originally Posted by TrainHead:

I am contemplating a move to AZ. Since they do not have basements in this part of the country, where do they build their layouts? I do not want to build it in a garage. How big of a house would I need for a 10 x 15 layout? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you.

Ahhh.??? 10x15! (If you want to keep it out of the sun and away from the black widow spiders.)

Last edited by Engineer-Joe

Not sure about all of Arizona but in the Mesa area of Phoenix there are basements if you want them.

 

Unless your garage is insulated and has its own AC/Heat the garage temperature in the Phoenix valley can go over 110 in the summer. During monsoon season (July-Sept) the humidity jumps up too.

 

My garage is my business workshop which is one reason I recently moved to Prescott. Being over one mile high it is always about 20-25 degrees cooler than Phoenix.

 

Most friends w/o basements have built their layouts in what we call Arizona rooms (different from bonus room D500 talks about) that have been walled in, insulated and hooked up to the house AC. Others have had new 'garages' built. As long as the structure qualifies as a garage it does not count in the total footprint of the home so ones property tax does not increase. Apparently to qualify you simply need a garage door. Insulate it, keep it closed and build the structure like any other room in the house and like one friend you have a 60x20 layout.

 

 

Joe

I live in a 1700 sf house with a wife and two daughters in Florida - certainly no basement and not enough room for a train room. So i built a 12 x 12 shed for garage stuff, am adding a nice deck, and will then enclose 1/2 of the garage to living area - 1/2 for a laundry room and 1/2 for a train room. A lot of work to go through, but I think I will end up with a 12 x 12 space.

 

The garage is 10 feet high so I plan to have two or three levels of shelf trains with storage below and over head. I sure hope it works out. If you have a two car garage you might be able to pull it off too. 

There are many opportunities for layouts in Arizona, and a whole bunch of wonderful people involved in trains.  Arizona is a big state with a varied climate.  Within each climate areas you will find a multitude of housing and therefore layout options.

I would suggest visiting some of the different areas and checking out the train clubs as part of your adventure.  The members of any of the clubs would be happy to share their experiences and suggest possibilities.

Consider visiting McCormic-Stillman Railroad Park in Scottsdale (Phoenix area).  The Paradise and Pacific Railroad is an O-Gauge club with a permanent layout.  Our web site is www.pandprr.com

The Gadsden-Pacific Division Toy Train Operating Museum has multiple gauges in Tucson.  Web site www.gpdtoytrainmuseum.com

Read what Joe said, he has good advice.  There are many homes in the Phoenix metropolitan area that do have basements, bonus rooms, etc.  My main suggestion is never hope to use your garage, or a portion of it.  Most are not air conditioned and in any case will leak dust as well as heat.  When you make your choice, just make sure there is an inside room that meets your needs.

 

Or just live in Northern Arizona as Joe and I do.

I line in N Phoenix and am on a 1/3 acre horse property with no horses. These are common types in my area.  Anyways these type properties often have a seperated building that can be insulated or already are.  In my case it is a garage converted to a closed room with french doors and very sizeable window AC unit built into the wall. It is 24' x 24' which will give an excellent around the wall layout and plenty of space in middle to play.

I have a 16x20 "storage building" that was built on site in my back yard in central Oklahoma...very few basements but lots of storm shelters.

 

My building is insulated with electric baseboard heating and a window air conditioner.  Floor carpeted.  Walls and ceiling covered with sheetrock, mud, tape, and painted.  The AC window is below the benchwork so I don't have to work around it. 

 

I (will) have an around the wall layout using O-72 3rail.  I pulled the track to do some benchwork. 

 

I also have a peninsula down the middle of the room with industrial tracks extending out onto that 4ft x 12ft peninsula.  Plenty of room for a guy like me...my nickname is Fat Tony. 

 

By using around the wall 30 inch shelves, I can reach everything and I can follow my train.  I have room for a main, passing track, a couple of industry tracks and almost all of my structures are "building flats". 

 

On the peninsula is where I have several full "3-D" structures including one 4 story industry complex that will be slightly over 4 ft long that acts as a view block as well as my major industry.  Thus adding to the illusion of distance and space.

If you want to live in the greater Phoenix metro area you absolutely don't want to put your layout in a garage. Keep in mind daytime temperatures can frequently exceed 115 degrees and overnight LOW temperatures of 100+ are not uncommon. The temperature in the garage will frequently exceed 120 degrees in the summer. Beyond being miseralve to be in there is a very real chance of seriously damaging any electronics in your trains. Also all that "it's a dry heat" crap goes out the window when the temps go north of 105. I grew up in the Phoenix area but also spent summers in North Carolina, Georgia and Kentucky when I was in the Army. Summer in any of those places was still better than Phoenix even with the humidity. Basements do exist, especially in older homes. Before the advent of air conditioning basements were more common because they're so much cooler in the summer. In the 70s there was even a bunch of houses made that were almost entirely below ground or which had dirt plowed up against the walls. One of my friends lived in such a house and even at the height of summer they didn't need to turn on the AC! Downside is digging into the ground to build a basement or subterranean house is really difficult as the ground in the valley is only slightly softer than concrete! This is also why the Phoenix area is so prone to flash floods - the water simply doesn't absorb into the ground. Northern Arizona is completely different. People think AZ is all desert but the entire upper half of the state is on a big plateu and it's mostly pine forest.  Prescott is a pretty amazing place about 90 mins north of Phoenix. Flagstaff is an awesome little college town even further north that is worth looking into. 

I was lucky in that the small house I just bought in Mesa has a room that was added on to the back, and that'll be my train room once I can get to finishing it.  There were some home with basements we looked at, but sadly all were out of my price range (1st time home buyer, so money I have not.  My realtor told me I got a really good deal on the house I did get.  I think the fact that it was summer when we were looking and that the AC didn't work kept many people from considering it.  I've been to St Paul's layout, and it's a nice job.  To an untrained eye, you couldn't tell that it wasn't part of the house to begin with.  Many do that around here, enclosing carports and garages.  My sister-in-law's parents had a basement added to their house to make room for the large family, so that is an option.  Also, many house have a living/front room and a family room, so you could always make one the train room.  Also, of note about Arizona rooms, most I've seen are full of windows, big windows.

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