Auto Racks/Ramp-DONE

Does it matter about the time period.

Here is a photo of a 1979 ICG auto rack with the deck height listed.

 http://canadianfreightcargalle...971detail2&o=ttx

If you are talking about modern cars, the levels are height adjustable to a certain degree and can have one, two or three decks. 

Only in the 1960's some of the open auto racks had fixed height decks. The late 60's to present, the deck heights are adjustable. Except for the bottom deck which usually is the flat car deck the rack is mounted on.

Thanks for the information guys, I am thinking about building a auto ramp and just need to know the height of the lower deck and upper deck so I can figure out the Ram stroke for raising and lowering  the ramp. Of course for models I was thinking something like 1 3/4" for the lower deck and 2 3/4" for the upper deck. If I am wrong please let me know.

Thanks I didn't know that they were adjustable, I learn something everyday. Can you tell me what the max height of the top deck would be?

Mike, it sounds like you're planning using the loading ramp so the ram stroke needs to work with the auto racks you are running, not what may be prototypical heights.

Joe, I have no auto racks at this time, just something to do to pas the time when it rains. I do plan on getting some down the road after the layout ever gets started.

Mike,

Good luck with this project & please keep us updated on your progress.

When I visited Charleston, SC recently, I saw these ramps similar to the ones made by Buck that were being used to load / unload BMW vehicles on / off auto racks & driven on/off a ship, which might have been Wallenius Wilhelmsen. You could get good views of this operation from the upper decks of the Charleston Aquarium which is one of the reasons I keep going back there.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Naveen, Thanks for the pictures, gives me something to think about, Also I will have to see if I can find a truck I can kit bash for the wheels. I will try to  put up some pictures later today.

Naveen, do you have any auto carriers, if so can you give me the height of the top deck?

Mike,

I am into 2-rail & I only have a pair of the newer Lionel 89’ long auto racks that I converted to 2-rail using Atlas-O 70-ton roller bearing trucks. I know that in the past, Lionel made much shorter 3-rail auto-racks with incorrect length compared to real auto racks & MTH also makes slightly shorter 3-rail auto-racks, also having incorrect length compared to real auto racks.

I am not sure which auto rack you plan to purchase & so I will not be able to answer the exact question.

However for real auto racks, here are deck heights from information I found on the BNSF website.

Bi-Level Auto Racks (mainly for SUV, trucks)

Lower Deck: 39 ½”, above rail head

Upper Deck: 89 ½” above lower deck

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/Bi-Level-Specs.pdf

Tri-Level Auto Racks (mainly for cars)

Lower Deck: 31 ½”, above rail head

Middle Deck: 62 7/8” above lower deck

Upper Deck: 62 3/8” above middle deck

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/Tri-Level-Specs.pdf

I am not sure if anyone made Tri-Level Auto Racks in 3-rail yet.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Thanks Naveen, That's what I was looking for. I use my scale calculator to break it down to scale.

Hi All, I took Naveen's information, changed it to scale, but doesn't seem right. Dose someone have a MTH car hauler that can just measure the bottom deck height and the top deck for me PLEASE?

don't the railroads call these "auto racks"?

Yes you are correct. Thanks

The numbers for the tri level are a bit misleading.  The deck of the flatcar, A deck,  is below the level of the end sill. There is a ramp that goes down to the flat car deck.  On the B deck there is a hinged portion that is about 12 feet long on both ends.  This is raised to let the cars onto the A deck.  When the A deck is full the hinge deck is lowered leaving a flat deck for for the B deck.  The first and last cars are not on the A deck, they are sitting on the ramp and space for lowering the hinged B deck is above the hood or trunk.  The C deck is parallel to the B deck when the hinge decks are down.  I do not know if this lower A deck detail is accurately portrayed in the models.  

The important dimensions to the railroads are the height of the roof, which use to be 18' 6" for Ford racks and 18' 10 1/2" for all others, and the clearance between decks, as this determines what kind of autos can be loaded.  I never understood the 18' 10 1/2" height dimension as all railroad clearance dimensions are rounded up to the next full inch.  Deck clearance for Fords was 59 1/2" and GM cars were 62".  About 1985 a study was done of the routes for the Ford racks and what ever the obstruction that result in the Ford racks being shorter, it was gone.  So we worked at getting all racks up to 19'.  This was possible since double stacks were resulting in improved clearances everywhere.  Now some racks are up to 20' 6".  The load mix continues to move away from cars and toward SUVs and Pick ups, so these days I would assume that the bi level is king.  

mike g. posted:

Hi All, I took Naveen's information, changed it to scale, but doesn't seem right. Dose someone have a MTH car hauler that can just measure the bottom deck height and the top deck for me PLEASE?

Mike,

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the dimensions I posted were for the real auto-racks. I used to have an MTH auto-rack that rode very high, right out of the box. I guess MTH had to raise the entire car for the tall flanges on the 3-rail wheels to clear the underside of the car. Since the car rode so high, it was even taller than the real auto racks which are 19’ tall, while MTH’s auto-rack advertised as being 5 1/16” tall would be 20’3” in 1:1 scale. So if the MTH car is higher than the real cars then the deck heights most likely would be incorrect too. That along with the length of the MTH car, scaled would be 13’ shorter than the auto rack lengths from the BNSF website influenced my decision to sell the car I had. I am not saying Lionel cars are prefect but at least the length scales to the 94” & the height looks good after converting it to 2-rail with 70-ton Atlas trucks.

I have also read a few years ago that some 3-rail hobbyists on these forums found these cars were taller than expected preventing them from running these cars through tunnels in their layout. So if the MTH car is higher than the real cars then the deck heights most likely would be incorrect too.

So are you planning to get these cars for a 3-rail or a 2-rail layout? If you plan to use an unmodified 3-rail car on a 3-rail layout, then I second Coach Joe’s recommendation to measure the decks of the cars when you get them to decide the ramp heights.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Thanks Naveen,

I do plan on getting MTH 3 rail auto racks and running them on 3 rail track. The reason I was asking if someone had the heights is because I am in the middle of building the ramp cause that is what I can afford and do right now. It will be awhile before I get any auto racks, but I can do this for free right now. I am just trying to keep motivated by doing things I can afford so I don't lose intrest and walk away. By reading this forum and doing my little projects it keeps my head in the game.

You are aware that the MTH autoracks don't have opening end doors (and may not even have interior decks as a result), correct?

The only Premier-level MTH auto carriers that have opening doors and interior decks are the 75' CN-style Auto-Train autoracks.

---PCJ

Hi RailRide,

No I didn't know that, but thank you for the information. Now I know what Auto Rack to look for when the time comes.

mike g. posted:

Thanks Naveen,

I do plan on getting MTH 3 rail auto racks and running them on 3 rail track. The reason I was asking if someone had the heights is because I am in the middle of building the ramp cause that is what I can afford and do right now. It will be awhile before I get any auto racks, but I can do this for free right now. I am just trying to keep motivated by doing things I can afford so I don't lose intrest and walk away. By reading this forum and doing my little projects it keeps my head in the game.

Mike, 

As the shorty cars lack interior detail, I'd build it to work with either the Atlas or Lionel Auto Rack. Keep us posted on the progress. I'd guess piano wire is strong enough to raise and lower the deck without being really visible to the eye. My next project after twisting a certain fellows arm to allow Toys for Tots at a large gathering we are attending this winter is building a sign for the layout.

David Johnston posted:

The numbers for the tri level are a bit misleading.  The deck of the flatcar, A deck,  is below the level of the end sill. There is a ramp that goes down to the flat car deck.  On the B deck there is a hinged portion that is about 12 feet long on both ends.  This is raised to let the cars onto the A deck.  When the A deck is full the hinge deck is lowered leaving a flat deck for for the B deck.  The first and last cars are not on the A deck, they are sitting on the ramp and space for lowering the hinged B deck is above the hood or trunk.  The C deck is parallel to the B deck when the hinge decks are down.  I do not know if this lower A deck detail is accurately portrayed in the models.  

The important dimensions to the railroads are the height of the roof, which use to be 18' 6" for Ford racks and 18' 10 1/2" for all others, and the clearance between decks, as this determines what kind of autos can be loaded.  I never understood the 18' 10 1/2" height dimension as all railroad clearance dimensions are rounded up to the next full inch.  Deck clearance for Fords was 59 1/2" and GM cars were 62".  About 1985 a study was done of the routes for the Ford racks and what ever the obstruction that result in the Ford racks being shorter, it was gone.  So we worked at getting all racks up to 19'.  This was possible since double stacks were resulting in improved clearances everywhere.  Now some racks are up to 20' 6".  The load mix continues to move away from cars and toward SUVs and Pick ups, so these days I would assume that the bi level is king.  

David,

Thanks for your reply. I was interesting to read how vehicles are loaded in these auto racks. I also had questions on the lower deck height difference between Bi-Level & Tri-Level Auto Racks when I first saw the drawings on the BNSF site. But a closer examination of the end view on the pdf drawing showed the lower deck below the end sill as you mentioned.

Would you know if it is possible to drive a vehicle through the cars while loading / unloading? I ask because the auto racks at Charleston port seemed to be arranged in groups of 5 with a Buck ramp at one end. There were 4 – 5 sets of these 5-car groups on straight parallel tracks. 1 Buck ramp seemed to be repositioned at 1 of the ends of each track for loading / unloading. I was not sure if they switch each car after loading / unloading or if the vehicles are driven though the cars from one car to the next.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Here is where I spent a good amount of time! 29 Palms! Go TOYS FOR TOTS!

I will post some pictures later today.

naveenrajan posted:

David Johnston posted:

The numbers for the tri level are a bit misleading.  The deck of the flatcar, A deck,  is below the level of the end sill. There is a ramp that goes down to the flat car deck.  On the B deck there is a hinged portion that is about 12 feet long on both ends.  This is raised to let the cars onto the A deck.  When the A deck is full the hinge deck is lowered leaving a flat deck for for the B deck.  The first and last cars are not on the A deck, they are sitting on the ramp and space for lowering the hinged B deck is above the hood or trunk.  The C deck is parallel to the B deck when the hinge decks are down.  I do not know if this lower A deck detail is accurately portrayed in the models.  

The important dimensions to the railroads are the height of the roof, which use to be 18' 6" for Ford racks and 18' 10 1/2" for all others, and the clearance between decks, as this determines what kind of autos can be loaded.  I never understood the 18' 10 1/2" height dimension as all railroad clearance dimensions are rounded up to the next full inch.  Deck clearance for Fords was 59 1/2" and GM cars were 62".  About 1985 a study was done of the routes for the Ford racks and what ever the obstruction that result in the Ford racks being shorter, it was gone.  So we worked at getting all racks up to 19'.  This was possible since double stacks were resulting in improved clearances everywhere.  Now some racks are up to 20' 6".  The load mix continues to move away from cars and toward SUVs and Pick ups, so these days I would assume that the bi level is king.  

David,

Thanks for your reply. I was interesting to read how vehicles are loaded in these auto racks. I also had questions on the lower deck height difference between Bi-Level & Tri-Level Auto Racks when I first saw the drawings on the BNSF site. But a closer examination of the end view on the pdf drawing showed the lower deck below the end sill as you mentioned.

Would you know if it is possible to drive a vehicle through the cars while loading / unloading? I ask because the auto racks at Charleston port seemed to be arranged in groups of 5 with a Buck ramp at one end. There were 4 – 5 sets of these 5-car groups on straight parallel tracks. 1 Buck ramp seemed to be repositioned at 1 of the ends of each track for loading / unloading. I was not sure if they switch each car after loading / unloading or if the vehicles are driven though the cars from one car to the next.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

At auto loading facilities the rail cars can be in long lines and the autos are driven all the way through with the ramp at only one end. This is frequently a fixed ramp.  Some times the speed of the cars going through the racks is quite high. They are loaded one deck at a time, first the A deck, then B ad C decks.  At unloading facilities the rail cars may arrive with the autos facing either direction. The cars are only driven forward in the racks.  The rail cars either have to be sorted by the direction the autos are facing or spaced out so the Buck loader can be driven to either end of the rail car.  The design of the loading and unloading facility is largely determine by the shape and size of the land available.   Getting the drivers from the autos to the rail cars is an issue as the autos need to be unloaded quickly. This speaks for many short tracks and parking near the cars. At assembly plants cars are usually parked in a lot and cars are driven from the lot to the rail cars.  Trying to get a mix of autos the dealers want is important. Autos arriving by ship usually drive off the ship and right on to the auto racks. Sorting for dealer loads is done at inland reload lots where autos are reloaded onto trucks for delivery to dealers.

Hi Dave, That is some great information you shared. I never knew that the cars were only driven one way, but it makes since. Less damage that way! Well I am almost done with the ramp Photos to fallow later.

Well Dave, Naveen, and anyone else who would like to comment, here is why I was asking about Auto Rack deck heights.

Here is my tale, I seen one on here for $200 of which I don't have for a Ramp. The big money I spend is on a Z4000, Track, and maybe an engine. If I cant buy it or build it I figure I don't need it.

It all started with a little ramp from my grandsons toy that our bulldog chewed up and this was all that was left . Then with a little plexi glass, some model parts tree, some super glue, and yellow paint. Here is what I have so far. I still nee to paint the cylinders and come up with the top of the cylinders and weathering. I hope you all will comment so I can learn where to improve. 

Auto racks, bi levels and tri levels..

Mostly we just call em autos now, bis and tri. Really ony makes a difference when you spot the cars.  Can't< line a tri up with a bi For multi car -unzloading

Mike, that is a nice looking ramp. It is typical of what would be seen at a loading facility years ago when I was working for the railroads. At an unloading facility most of the time the ramps have wheels so they can move to the end of the rail car where the autos will drive out forward.  Probably a little steep, but in model trains we tend to shorten things to make them fit the space we have.   There would be a pair of hinged deck plates at the top of the ramp that would be lowered when the rail car was spotted. 

Mike, You asked for comments so you know where to improve your ramp, and I can't think of a single improvement on what you've got so far.  As for the cylinder tops, can you find a small rubber grommet that fits the bill at a local hardware store or home improvement center?

Thanks for the input guy's.

Dave, I am looking for a truck to kit bash for the wheels to install, then I will have to put stabilizers on the base, the ramp at the top is hinged and I will reposition it in future pictures so you can see. The ramp is made so I can adjust it from the base to the highest deck on any car it is positioned behind.

Coach, Thanks for the comments I was looking for something to put on the top of the cylinders, I just wasn't sure yet as I am trying to build this with everything I have laying around my garage. There might be something on the truck I kit bash for the wheels. I will let you know.

Thanks again guys!

Hi All, I finished the auto ramp today, its as good as its going to get. I added wheels and stabilizers, lowered the deck a little, tilted the end ramp down to meet any train car, and yes I know they don't have RED LED's on them. but it is my layout its going on and I thought it would be cool. So here are the final pictures.

If someone has an idea of what I should try next please let me know. Also please all say whats on your mind when you see the pictures.

Nice work Mike. A lot of time and effort and it shows. 

Thanks Jameszz, 3 days of work and a weeks worth of planning. I might weather it, if I do it would be the first time for that also.

Looks like a great job to me! Nice work. Whatever you do next, please keep sharing! Thank you.

I like the LEDs

GREAT WORK!!! Nice to see things built!!!!

Thanks Dave, It means a lot coming from you, I am always impressed with all you do whti the free trucks you get and all the flatcars you redo. I check out everything I can of yours.

Mike G.

Truly outstanding job on both the light plant and the auto-loader.  Personally I like the LEDs on the auto-loader prototypical on not. One of those things when on the layout that will draw your eye right to it.  Are they static or do they blink?

bd

Wow Mike, that is flat out terrific. Thanks for sharing the steps.

We also have cars (Audi's / VW's) unloaded by the thousand here at Quonset Pt. RI. The size of the ships are impressive in Narragansett Bay. The unloading is one heck of a choreographed operation. The drivers taking the cars from the docks to the immense parking lots are most cautious. The Seaview Railroad runs Quonset and interchanges with the Providence and Worcester who then hands them off to CSX.

I'm there all the time, will have to get pictures to share.

Paul