Basement Layout - Post 2 - Benchwork 6-14-16

I take it that the gray areas on the rendering are walls ?    I don't see the bridges.  I like the track plan.  It gives plenty of choices where to route trains to.  

I believe the bridges are in the bottom right at an angle, the light grey tracks in the last 3D image.

Just for fun, here is a variation on Mike's plan adapted from an old Lionel layout idea. It provides more mileage for the mainline ovals and variable routing with fewer switches, using the same O36 and O48 curves. It probably wouldn't require any custom-cut pieces.

I really like the changes Ace. Using an circle (or oval) instead of a figure 8 is something I have in my design, but it does reduce the number of unattended trains that can be run from 3 to 2 while providing more operation interest and landscaping possibilities.

I appreciate Ace's version.   But the ability to run three trains (original plan) unattended, and I think that Mike is starting from the original layout with the figure-8 on the left (is that correct Mike?), guides me to prefering Mike's version.  Its often easier to expand an existing layout than to scratch that and start with all new.   

Both designs look good in many ways.

If it is possible to shift the figure-8 up or down a bit, then one of the straights with the short "jogs" at top or bottom connecting the figure-8 with the double-track diamond could be realigned for a perfect straight.   Than would result in just one "jog" rather than two.   [with a short fitter track between the two curves of the "job" - with the advantage of making it a bit easier as an "S" curve]

The turnout at the top coming out of the mountain will be a difficult reach, so derailments there will be a hassle, but I don't see a solution that does not radically change the design.

Here's a way to fit in three interconnected circuits to easily run three trains. All FasTrack with standard pieces, no cutting.

Nice work on this latest variation, Ace, there is a cool design!

Can you expand it a bit, for all three circuits, so that the track is a bit closer to the edges and walls?   That would have less track cutting across the corners of the access location (not that it is a big deal) and end up with slightly longer runs for all three circuits.

Ken-Oscale posted:

Nice work on this latest variation, Ace, there is a cool design!

Can you expand it a bit, for all three circuits, so that the track is a bit closer to the edges and walls?   That would have less track cutting across the corners of the access location (not that it is a big deal) and end up with slightly longer runs for all three circuits.

There are a zillion possibilities for this space. I drafted those ideas with the pre-defined baseboard and minimum changes to Mike's design. If Mike hasn't already built benchwork and is satisfied with O36 curves, I would suggest trying to engineer a plan that does not have a duck-under/bridge section for access. But everyone has their own preferences for how they want to do things.

FasTrack is easy to change around on a flat table, if it isn't all stuck down with permanent scenery. I would suggest building a table that allows for future revisions and additions, such as a second level.

Thanks everyone,

Ace, I always appreciate your designs and especially your help with mine. I was thinking about adding a second level down the road. One design I particularly like for the second level is your rendering of the "Clive Ellis Diamond Junction". I made a variation using FasTrack, but let me not get ahead of myself. Because I live in the Chicagoland area, I get to see the "L" regularly. I was also thinking of modifying a bump-n-go trolley to look like an "L" car and to make an elevated path for it that follows the road extensions that you added. You input gives me serious consideration, I am very glad you added the third track. Something I failed to mention is that I was keeping 6 inch centers, but mostly because that is what I got with the back to back O-36 switches and because that matched itself well for the corresponding O-48 curve. I don't intend to run equipment that would require the 6 inch center distance, so more thinking here! While I do like the ability to watch the trains from the center, if you have something in mind for using more of the space let me know. All I have so far for the bench work is the wall mounting lip and I could even adjust that too.

Ken & Dave, thanks for the encouragement. I didn't do a good job with the rendering with the bridge, but it is in that bottom right corner. I intend to make that a lift up for easy access to the center area and to create the around the room type of feel. I did have a figure eight in my prior layout, but that was done using the traditional 90 degree crossing. That layout is all dissembled now so I am wide open with this new design. With O-36 FasTrack the traditional 90 degree figure eight won't fit into my dimension (at least in the manner I started with). That is why I incorporated the 45 degree crossing. I agree on the mountain area "reach-ability". One thing in my plans is to leave that corner under the mountain open from the bottom so that I can reach up and under the mountain to solve any derailments.

Thanks everyone.

P.S. I just re-read a prior post and realized that everyone was assuming the hole had to stay in place. I have not cut any hole yet, nor added the cross beams, so the whole area is open for interpretation from wall to wall.

Thank you for the comments, Mike.

Could you explain your room arrangement with the door openings at two ends? I'm supposing there is another way around so that you don't need to walk through that room for normal access to other rooms?

Here are some quick drafts with your original baseboard outline, designed for convenient walk-in access and no duck-under or movable bridge. It should be possible to fit in additional tracks for more trains, perhaps with tracks at different levels.

Thanks Ace, based on your prior work I feel a track easement in my future.

I also realized via one of your drawings I didn't adjust the baseboard at some point in my work, but moved the walls over the edges of the baseboard. There is only 80.5 inches wall to wall, the base board at some point was implying more space.

The access to this room is via either door and this room doesn't provide access to any other room.  The door on the left is just for mechanical ease. It doesn't serve any traffic purpose and is only for the back-side of the mechanical. There are not any serviceable area's from the back-side so distance is not critical. The 28 inch by 9 inch area next to the water heater is part of the concrete footer for the basement that sticks out into the room. The doorway on the right is also for access to mechanical, this time electric, phone, etc. So I have full right of way in-between. Overhead is all of the duct and conduit for those mechanical systems.

In the process of answering your questions I made some more detailed measurements and gave myself 150 inches along the top concrete wall (it was at 127  before). I also extended the baseboard fully to the right doorway and from there made a 45 degree angle to intersect with the 150 inch mark. So I gave us some more area for track & landscape (or walk in space).

Opening or access hatch, the reach issue needs to handled. The hatch can have scenic items on it. Here is a concept of two 30" square hatches also showing 30" lengths (in red) to demonstrate the reach to help locate the hatches.

I think that you would still be a little short of accessing  the wall area using a topside creeper.

Handling the reach will also help you set the layout height. How low do you want to crawl under?

Mike, your room outline is very handy for a starting point. My goal here was to trial a walk-in plan for easier access. It uses all standard FasTrack pieces with no cutting.

Minimum curves are O36 on the end loops, but other curves are wider with easements as much as possible. The mainline circuit is about as large as possible for an easy-to-build single level plan. The dogbone route is long enough for two trains to cruise around in the same direction. It's heavy on track to provide parking spaces for additional trains of moderate length.

The main spaces for scenery are the end loops. A shelf/viaduct might be built over two or three tracks at the back, to accommodate city buildings and backdrop.

Of course there are many ways to modify the plan. Switches could be changed to O36 if you want to use your existing inventory.

A multi-level plan is possible for a longer mainline run or independent circuits but it would require a fair amount of hidden track for stacked loops, and be considerably more work to build.

Hi Ace, I made myself dizzy thinking about my train operators in my house (3 sons) each following one another as we zig-zig across that layout. But I kept thinking about the layout you did with the circle as the turnaround. I got it to fit into the triangle corner on the right. Everyone please excuse my sloppy SCARM work this evening, I was in a hurry to get this idea out here. It isn't the "walk into" and I am back to a lift-up, but now I moved it to the left side (not really shown on this plan). When I get a minute tomorrow I will leverage the turns to put the switches into, instead of the straights as shown here. As we discussed previously, I don't need as much spacing between tracks so they can get closer, but I can also give a wider turn to get my scenic area's setup. More to come!

I did some revising to get all the tracks lined up with standard uncut pieces, using your existing inventory of O36 switches with O36 and O48 curves. The track spacing is going to be a bit wide with O36 switches for crossovers. The crossovers are arranged to let the inner trains reverse with fewer conflicting movements and fewer S-curves.

Ace, I think this is the one. I was going for the same concept, to add the turns into the corners. I was having difficultly with the one in the bottom right, but as usual, you came to the rescue. I added my circus, city, residential, farm and industrial area's. With the industry I made it as a platform above the track. I also, just for visual fun, raised the outer track up an inch in the bottom left corner.

I can't wait to start building. I will update as I start.

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay, but as you will see I have been busy. After settling on that last design I leveraged SCARM and adding some framing plans to help make sure I had all of the lumber I needed. I already had some 2x4's from the old layout and a significant number of 2x3's that I got cheap. I wanted to get some more "full length" 2x4's to span the area from wall to wall such that I wouldn't need too many legs and would have plenty of under table storage. The 2x4 will be the main "load-bearing" and the 2x3 will span the gaps between. My goal is to have no more than a 10 inch area such that a train car will always be on-top of a piece of lumber.

I used the concrete corner (in the circus area) as my zero point. I expected that the wall between the doorway's wasn't 100% parallel to the concrete wall but I had drawn the original plan knowing that and had used my shortest distance to make my plan. So by going from the concrete corner the industrial area gained about 3/4 of an inch. I also found out the hard way that in the same circus corner, the floor isn't level. I was measuring from the floor up to install the 2x4's by which I would use joist hangars to span the 7 ft distance. But after a level showed an unexpected uphill to the circus corner I realized the mistake. It isn't that bad (only about 1/2 inch) since the train doesn't go all the way into the corner so we have a small uphill climb.

As you look at the pictures my DT&I switcher is sitting in the "Circus" corner and in the background you can see the furnace area which is on the left side and the electrical / storage area on the right side. I envy those on the forum who organize their work before starting. I managed to drop a 2x4 at least 3 times onto my collection which was underfoot. So I have a door to put back onto a boxcar, a railing to re-attach to a tank car and another unnamed part to attach to something else when I find out what it got knocked off from.

A to Z (Mike) ,

That's certainly some solid framing. You may still be able to recover some leveling with the legs, if they are the low area.  Take them off and drill into the bottom and install a 1/4"-20 T-Nut and a 1/4"-20 carriage bolt for a leveling foot.

Now, would also be a good time to prime and paint the walls sky color and also pull the primary track power wires. Use a 3/4" speedbore bit to make holes in the crossmembers and chamfer the edges with a half-round file.

Are you utilizing the layers in SCARM to keep the various parts of the layout separated? That provides the ability to have a clean view for working on a plan element.

Like Carl said that is some beefy bench work. 10" clearance might make it hard to get a drill in there to drill holes for wiring unless you have a 90° attachment. I once did 12" spacing and regretted it, so I won't go any tighter than 16" with the layout. I did drill holes before assembly, so that wasn't an issue. Of course you can use other techniques to run the wiring and keep it out of the way when you're moving around under the layout.

I don't think a 1/2" variance in height is going to make much difference in operation, but it's never a bad idea to add leveling feet. It looks like some of the layout is anchored to the wall, so you might have to shorten the legs a bit before adding the T-nuts and bolts. With only 1/2" variance, you might be able to just add some shims, but if that's a concrete floor in a basement, I think it's generally recommended to keep wooden legs off the concrete.

I still like this layout design and I think you're going to have a lot of fun running trains, or just watching them run.

Thanks guys, you will start to see some clarity to my madness on bench work! It's all about leftovers.

Carl, I had never used the layers in SCARM, which is funny considering how much I use Photoshop and other products that do use layers. After your comment I went back into SCARM and cut away my pieces only to paste them into a new layer. I didn't add the framing for two reasons; one I was already done, and two since it seems you can't turn off a layer in 3D mode (which I am addicted to viewing) they were not necessary. As to the "high corner" there are not any legs except for the two area's where the 45 degree angle meets on each side. As Dave guessed the majority is anchored to the walls, including the high corner. I looked at running my circular saw set at 1 1/2 inches to trim it level, but I just let it be. It adds "character" to the layout.

As to painting the walls I agree. After I put on the table top, I leveraged it as my drop cloth and used a "leftover" blue paint on the walls. I think I will sponge in some clouds over the lumps in the poured concrete walls. As to the wiring I work with a lot of low voltage computer network cables and other low voltage control cables at work. So I have lots of wire race way and J hooks to hold up the power cables. I intend to have a cable channel along each wall and jump over to the track with a J hook holding it up and out of the way. I think I will setup 12 drops 1 to each loop of track with a couple back by the reversing circle.

As to the top, again I also have some 1/4 inch plywood that will be the start of the top that is another leftover. As I started I thought that I might have enough to give it two layers, therefore a full 1/2 inch, but not quite. On top of that I am adding a 1/2 inch layer of foam panel. This way I can "dig in" some building or stream scene as well as adding some sound deadening capabilities. I know this isn't as thick as most recommend, but I have my beefy bench to help keep it all level.

On top of the foam I have a cloth "camouflage" material sheet. I used this on my original 4x8 and liked the look. When I bought it as (you guessed it) a leftover from JoAnn Fabrics (before they closed up) I knew it was big. With a quick test sizing tonight it looks like I have enough to cover the whole thing. I want to use this as my starting foundation for adding in more scenic elements but it gives me time to not rush and not look at plywood or foam board.

Mike,

I get the "use what you have" approach. You are moving right along.

I didn't think the layout plan was madness. Just pointing out the layer tool.

AtoZ Lewis posted:

I didn't add the framing for two reasons; one I was already done, and two since it seems you can't turn off a layer in 3D mode (which I am addicted to viewing) they were not necessary.

I haven't used SCARM as extensively as I have RR-Track, so I never noticed you can't limit the layers in 3D mode. I use different layers for hardware diagrams, wiring diagrams, alternate track designs, even the same track run using a different brand of track, and I don't want to see all that stuff every time I view the layout in 3D. My hardware and wiring diagrams take up the whole work space and if they were all visible in 3D in RR-Track, they'd cover most of the track. So, I put together some examples and sent a note to Milen to see how much trouble it would be to add this function. I can work around it by using separate files, but it never hurts to ask.

Mike - your bench work is looking good.  I think you will appreciate the walls being painted before you start laying track.

FWIW, don't be surprised if you don't see the ability to limit layers viewed in 3D mode in a future update to SCARM. Milen has added it to his To Do list, so thanks for pointing out the deficiency.

The camo pattern doesn't look bad. Interesting.

Thanks Dave, in my "day job" I always like working with the smaller software development companies as they react in the same way to enhancement requests. Carl, you should see me in the layers now, it was very easy to print out my track only plan. Thanks Louie & Jim.

OK, I have got the table all covered. I have actually made more progress than the pictures here show. I stretched out the cloth to figure out my least number of cuts. I then pulled back the longer side and applied some multi-surface adhesive (carpet / tile glue) to the top of the foam and carefully folded it back over and ran a board over the top to smooth out the bumps. I trimmed the edges and let the glue dry. I wasn't worried about overlap since I plan to add scenic treatments over top, plus it's camo so it "blends". Then I used the small vacuum cleaner (the blue handle that keeps photobombing me) and just ran it over the top. The glue held very well and in one corner where I missed that it had folded over itself I was able to peal it back and apply again.

After that I took everything from under the table and put it on top. So, check, the table passes it's stress test. Then I cleaned out under the table. I managed to clog the vacuum twice, so I took it apart and cleaned and assembled. I have since then laid the track out. I didn't have a very good inventory, just rough guesses as to what I had on-hand. As we all know guesses are expensive in the track world. I discovered that I had an unusual high number of right hand switches (two extra). So I had to order some lefts to get the right amount. I was able to setup the side that runs between the circus and the city to check my spacing for all three lines with their curves around the middle and; as we all know, it looks like SCARM is dead-on. I was able to get the full inside loop running so I sent a train on it's never ending journey while I was putting the empty boxes back under the table. I'll have to move those just 1 more time as I add the wiring to the track. The new switches should be here Thursday or Friday, so maybe a full track session this weekend.

Mike,

I was ready for a video of the first run after reading the write-up. Small disappointment. Nice work.

Now you need a can of ACME camouflage paint to cover the inside of the access hole. It paints all of the colors in a pattern at once.

Carl, I see you qualify in the "Super Genius" category! Sorry I disappointed on the video, I'll correct that soon.

I do want to add a Velcro strip and black skirting around the inside and the outside as a nice finishing touch later.

I was only teasing you about the video. I am with Jim, the camo could end up looking real good with buildings and stuff on it. If I were in any genius category, well...

I guess I watched to many cartoons - still do with the grandkids - and they always have paint that does the pattern in one shot. Meeska, Mooska, Mickey Mouse!

Well especially for Carl, but also for Dave & Ace as well as everyone who has commented and read, the second inaugural running. The video is a little grainy as I have not installed the new florescent light yet so it isn't at a video brightness level yet. Photo's as well.

I don't have a player for that movie file. I sent it my iPhone. I'll check. audio only.

It looks better with track and trains. The camo is really growing on me.

The camo is a different look on the layout that I like. That camo in particular has the variations  present in real life.  It would be interesting to test different patterns, especially WW II German patterns which were excellent.

The forum didn't seem to like the video format from the camera. I converted and updated the video above.

Dear Mike

Very nice, I love the way you used the space. We are currently house hunting and we are look at all kinds of houses. After all the major consideration have been looked at I ask the wife if I could have a part of the house for my train room. Depending on house and space she states yes or no as she has other idea your that part of the house. I have seen two or three house that had that kind of space and I wonder what would fit in that room, thank you for answering that question with a live layout.

Ok. First run looks good.  Thanks. One needs an iDevice . Quicktime isn't supported for Windows.

Mike,

After all of the work to arrive at version 22a, there is one area that bugged me.  The 2 O36 crossing over on the outside line make such a terrible wiggle.

You can build it that way because of the Given of working with the track that you have. But, it would perform much smoother with two O72 switches. You could change it later if you like.

Visually, look at the 3D of 22a and this 3D and it becomes obvious. This is really nice track plan for this area. So, this change would put the topping on it.