Benchwork deck availabilty

Tom, I'd have to drive 100 miles or more to get AdvanTech branded flooring. Are you specifically recommending AdvanTech or is that just the product you are familiar with?

Thank you for the info, looked it up on line will have to check it out.

Thanks, Tom, I figured it was just another branding of flooring. I'll be near a lumber yard that sells it in a couple of weeks, so maybe I'll take a look.

Tom,

I just visited the Advantech site last week and checked their "where to buy". When I saw 84 lumber, I wasn't sure which product of Advantech's they would carry.

I'll be stopping by my local 84 Lumber in the next week or so to see if they do indeed carry the flooring sheathing.

The reason is that I just visited a layout on 2" x 4" framing with 3/4" product and commercial carpet with O tubular track fastened directly to the deck. No rubber backing on the carpet.

It is an extremely quiet layout running scale conventional trains. 4 at once!

I had used 1/2" MDO (Medium Density Overlay) for my layout.  We had used this material for exterior signs.   Relatively good ply strength and has a cedar surface material/Overlay that is smooth and accepts paint well.  Designed for exterior use.  Relatively expensive, most likely, even better lumber yards, would have to order this material.  It can be purchase with one side of overlay or both sides.   Considering, all the moisture associated with detailed ground cover, and landscape materials, seems like a good choice..

Also note that Exterior Grade A/C plywoods are a good choice, IMO.  (A) side, (no voids or flaws), would be layout deck side with the C grade side, underneath the layout. 

Also note that layout framing tends to dictate the deck quality.  Premium grade framing lumber, in most cases, allows the deck material to lay true and flat.  You may find that 16" on center a better layout than 24" on center. 

Framing

MDO board.

Looking good.

Tom Tee,

Thank you for the information.  Fortunately we have an 84 Lumber just 10 miles from my home.

I just found out there is an 84 Lumber across town in Chandler, so I sent them an email to see if they stock AdvanTech.

DoubleDAZ posted:

I just found out there is an 84 Lumber across town in Chandler, so I sent them an email to see if they stock AdvanTech.

Wow!  I didn't know 84 Lumber from little Eighty-Four, Pennsylvania was clean out in Arizona!!

Mark Boyce posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

I just found out there is an 84 Lumber across town in Chandler, so I sent them an email to see if they stock AdvanTech.

Wow!  I didn't know 84 Lumber from little Eighty-Four, Pennsylvania was clean out in Arizona!!

I didn't either. I searched for AdvanTech and came up with Prescott and Payson, but when I saw you and Carl mention 84 Lumber was near you, I decided to check for it. If they carry AdvanTech locally and the price is reasonable, I'll run over there with the truck and pick up the 3 sheets I'll need. I might run over there anyway just to check it out. The website mentions Tiny Homes and it'd be interesting if they have a model or 2 to look at.

Dave,

Tiny homes.  I have seen those on TV.  Someone who moves a lot could build a layout in one of them!

Woo Hoo, I have a place 3 miles away that carries it!

Mark Boyce posted:

Dave,

Tiny homes.  I have seen those on TV.  Someone who moves a lot could build a layout in one of them!

Yeah, my wife and I have both said that a few times while watching the shows that feature Tiny Houses. I just can't imagine living in our back bedroom that is 10-21 (210 sf).

Let me be clear. You are recommending the sheathing as opposed to the flooring? The flooring appears to be tongue and grove; the sheathing appears not to be. Also the sheathing appears a little lighter.

I see Tom hasn't answered yet. I found out the dealer near me doesn't stock it, but can get it next day from Boise. They want $31 for a sheet of the 3/4" T&G flooring and don't carry the sheathing. I can section my layout to make use of the T&G for a nice fit all the way across the main level.

Thank you for the list, Tom Tee!

Just curious about the moisture comments above.  Do these train layouts see large amounts of moisture or humidity that cause the layout to warp, delaminate, or change shape?  If so, what is the effect on the trains and accessories?  I understand the moisture concern on household or industrial flooring.

Dave, I noticed I dropped the ball with this thread,  did you go with  the Advantech?

Tom, unfortunately, several issues, including a change in space and redesign, have kept me from starting a layout and I'm still undergoing physical therapy for the latest medical issue. I have a final design for the new space, but I've decided to use 1x3s for framing and 1/2" plywood for decking due to my current physical limitations. Even then I'm going to need help putting things together and since I can only stand for about 30 minutes at a time right now, it's going to take awhile.

Would Mianne benchwork be a helpful route to consider in light of your situation?  The Advantech is fantastic  but rather weighty.  Mianne is very light weight,  screws together ala Ikea stuff and is of sufficient strength for the average RR.

Something else to consider, at an actual lumber yard (not HD/Lowe's) you can order light weight 1/2" plywood. I use it for portable modules

I am in the process of adding a fifth level above my RR and the Advantech works well at 12 to 15 inches in depth as a plain shelf on brackets spaced 32".

It would, Tom, but I have a hard time getting past the price. I can buy a lot of 1x3 and 2x3 material for the $1,000+ Mianne would cost for my meager 16'x16' L-shaped layout. And although can't stand for more than about 30 minutes to do things like trim bushes with the trimmer, cutting wood on the ShopSmith, etc., isn't as problematic because I'm not bending over in the same way. Plus I'm hoping my therapy and followup exercising will help with that as my back gets stronger.

This probably won't make much sense, but my construction is going to be pretty simple too. There will be 12 modules that are 24" wide and 36" deep. Two of these will have extended rails, a 60" on one side and a 48" on the other side, to support the O54 reversing loops on each leg of the "L". It will take one of these and 5 other modules to make each 12' leg of the "L". At the apex, there will be an angled cross-section to connect the 2 legs and it will be removable for annual access to the water heater in that corner of the garage. It's not ideal, but it'll be better than the RealTrax oval floor layout in the craft room.

And since this is a garage layout in Phoenix that will be pretty much just track, I'm not sure I want to spend the money on Mianne. I know 1x3s will hold up to the weather because I had a temp 6x10 table layout using 1x3's with 2x4 legs in the garage for over 2 years.

I looked at Mianne, and even talked with them at York last fall.  Definitely a super product!!  I too, just can't be putting that much money into benchwork for a 12 x 19 "C" shaped layout.  I got a local source for free 1/2" plywood anyway.  Free delivery to boot!  Can't beat that deal with a stick!! 

Dave, I hope your back gets stronger and is less painful!  My wife and I are getting along okay on the bad knees.  Now we have the dog with two bad ACLs.  We got one repaired at about $1600, and she is about up to normal on it.  We did get verification from our regular vet that she should get the second one done.  She is not quite 9 and will have to be doped up all the time if we don't.

Be watching the OGR For Sale section for some MTH engines and various freight cars!!    It's okay, I have more than I can run or even find shelf space for in our little house.  

Mark, I recently had an MRI to see what caused my first-ever bout with sciatica and it just showed normal age degeneration in the spine. Unfortunately, it also showed a possible aneurysm in the abdomen/lower aorta area, so I have an ultrasound scheduled for June 26. If it is an aneurysm, it'll probably mean surgery to repair it and that could mean weeks of downtime. These ongoing medical issues that keep popping up are mostly why I haven't started the layout yet this summer. The design is ready, but I want to be more physically prepared.

The therapy is for the sciatic pain and that will be finished on Friday. After that, I'm going to continue those exercises and add several more to try to strengthen the muscles in my back now that I know there's nothing seriously wrong with my spine. Once I get the ultrasound results, I'll make some decisions on how to proceed. It might help me justify the cost of Mianne, so I haven't completely ruled it out, though it'll be a lot easier given the space/obstacles if I can make my own custom modules.

Dave, Well I'm glad they found the possible aneurysm before it was too late!  Good idea to keep up the exercises.  I totally agree that your medical concerns certainly may justify Mianne.  That would rule out the most physically demanding part of your layout build!!

Dave, sorry for your health issues, I hope everything turns out well. I was thinking about your last statement of building your own do it custom shapes might be needed. Is there anyone around there that can help you build the bench work?

Thanks, Mike, but I don't think my health issues are going to be that big of a problem. At most I'll just have to take my time and rest when my back starts to talk to me. They've just made me think about weight more and make the decision to go with 1x3/2x3 construction over more robust materials. Up to now the problem has been more psychological with not knowing what was going on and not wanting to make things worse. The pain that started all this is almost completely gone and I'll just keep up with my exercise routine. Given that it's almost July, I may not start until it cools off in late September. We'll see once I get the ultrasound next week.

I understand Dave! Good to know that tings are getting better! Where are you in AZ?

Mike, we live in the Peoria suburb of Phoenix, just due south of the Peoria Sports Complex just to the east of a county island of 5-acre farms.

Dave, we use to live in Peoria, just north of the Peoria Sports Complex, West Brook village.  I loved it, after 10 months the wife hated it so we moved back!

I can imagine why she hated it. She’s probably talking about the heat, but Westbrook Village has had a bad reputation for a number of years. I think they must have had some changes in the HOA board though because it’s been pretty quite the last couple of years. We looked at homes there when we moved back to Phoenix in 1994, but decided against it. My father-in-law would have put his name on the house so we could have gotten in, but we felt we were just too young at only 47 and I’m glad we chose where we are. I first came out here in 1968 after my 18-month tour in Okinawa and I love the Southwest, but I can’t deny there are times I miss the Green Bay area. How long ago did you leave? We came through your area a few years ago when we took the ferry out of Port Angeles to Victoria.

You world travelers!  I've been as far as Sallisaw, Oklahoma!    My international travel consists totally of Niagara Falls in 1982, a five hour drive.  All the fellows getting shot up in Vietnam scared me to death!  My number was 256 or 265, I forget.  Thank you for serving, Dave and Mike!    I prayed for all of you in Southeast Asia every night while in high school.  

And I appreciate those prayers, Mark. Believe it or not though, the worst part of the whole ordeal was coming home to derision. And it was even worse because I was stationed just down the road from Berkeley. And I'll admit, I joined the Air Force to avoid being drafted into the Army. It wasn't being afraid, I just wanted to work with computers and I eventually got my wish.

As far as travel goes, the Air Force certainly planted the bug and I wish the world was less dangerous so we could do more, but outside of Canada, my wife's international travel days are over. I'd like to go back to Vietnam, but she won't even go to Tokyo, so there's no chance she'll go to Vietnam.

Dave. we left back in 2013, we moved down there because out daughter and grandkids were moving to vegas. So we sold our house moved there and 2 months later the daughter called and said guess what we changed our minds! LOL I think it was a mixture of no grandkids and the HEAT! 

So after 10 months we moved back, after I got a job with Maricopa County Driving truck! Good county job and just give it up LOL

Yes, I know the derision was bad, especially there.  I ended up going to college with some returning GIs.  We looked up to them here in conservative Western Pennsylvania.

Mike, I think to be closer to children and grandchildren would be the only reason we would move out of the area.  For now, everyone is here in Butler County, USA!

Mark, I'm sure it was that way in a lot of places, I just had the bad luck of ending up in uber-liberal California, the Berkeley area no less. It didn't help either that most of those returning had to pass through SFO (San Francisco airport) in uniform. And, of course, those lucky enough to avoid the draft and go to college faced some unfair derision too, especially those who actively tried to avoid the draft. Heck, even I avoided the draft by joining the Air Force. I didn't mind going, I just didn't want to go as a soldier. It's hard to believe it's been 46 years ago next month for me and unlike most, i see positive things that I attribute to our involvement in Vietnam, but time marches on and that's all in the past.

We learn from the past, but often it takes a generation to get there.

On to benchwork.  In the HO world, 1x3s are considered the norm.  Building with 2x4s is considered overkill.  However, sometimes 2x4s cost less than smaller lumber.  Even in O gauge, I think 1x3s are fine especially if you aren't climbing on it.  In HO, that was taboo.  I had to climb up on a lot of stuff during my work career, I certainly don't want to climb up on a layout!!

First i want to THANK ALL of you that Served for your Service. I to had 2 very high lottery numbers.

Been following this thread and thought I should add some thought to this subject. My last layout was U Shaped 20'x20' built on 2"x3" framing every 4 feet covered in 7/16 OSB and then homasote and it stood with my 300 pds climbing on it for 20 years with no problem. My current layout in the new house will be U shaped 18'x40' with a 2"x4" frame work as I could not find 2"x3"'s in any length but 8'. It to is covered with 7/16 OSB and homasote and my still 300 pds climbing on it so far no issues. Photos have been posted under the  thread What have you done on your layout lately. I fill like using 2"x4" is over kill but it is what it is when you want lumber in 12' lengths. I use 1" dry wall screws for the OSB and 3" decking screws for the framework.

Part of the reason I'm going with 24"x36" modules is to minimize as much warping as possible with shorter lengths of material. However, even though I don't need 12' lengths, etc., I may still use 2x4s. I've thought about ripping 3/4" plywood into 3" strips too, but that's even more work. Truth be told I could lay 3/4" decking on top of the cabinets and shelves and be happy with essentially a raised floor layout.

Dave: I am a little confused. Do you have a problem with warping or are you just foreseeing an issue with warping? Living in AZ I would not think moisture/warping would be a problem! Living in Central PA with a basement layout I never had any issues and heated with wood which really drys out the air.