Buildings or grass/road first?

Mock up a plan and trace the building footprints, pick them up, do the rest of the scenery and put the buildings back down. Obviously don't put grass in the building footprints. 

Boilermaker1 posted:

Mock up a plan and trace the building footprints, pick them up, do the rest of the scenery and put the buildings back down. Obviously don't put grass in the building footprints. 

The thing is I won't have these buildings for a while. I'm going to buy one building/accessory here and there and it might take me 2-3 years. Do most people in this case just cover their entire layout with turf and scrape it back up after buying a building and getting ready to place it? 

IMO, all that is really important is laying track enough to run some trains. Do the grass and roads, then buy the buildings. So what if the roads aren't quite right. Declare imminent domain and build new roads and plant new grass. 

It's hard to get it perfect the first time. So what if some modification needs done. Run some trains and give it a little more thought.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to do this. Yes, if you lay turf everywhere before buildings are placed you will have to remove it when buildings are put in place. But if you want the real estate to look semi-complete before you have all of your buildings and accessories then by all means do that for your own immediate satisfaction. It's YOUR layout! We all know a layout is a work in progress but I know how you feel about not wanting to see bare plywood. 

I myself have painted my plywood grey. It immediately changed that bare look. I have an around the room layout, so I will start with the areas closest to the walls and work towards the front, scenery wise. I will complete one section at a time and for my immediate satisfaction I will concentrate on that particular section until it has some sense of "completeness". But again, that's my way of doing it for MY layout. I just made sure the track was down with most of the accessories that are attached to it and most of the wiring is complete. 

I would think if a survey was taken on the steps someone has went through to have a relatively complete layout there would be many variations. 

Now that my dissertation is complete, run trains and have fun! Remember one of the most fun parts of building a layout is where you are now. BTW...what was the question, lol.

Thanks, i like the one section at a time idea.

One option is to start by covering the whole layout with brown butcher paper. Then you can put down temporary ground cover with wild abandon. When the time comes to develop a plot, just cut out the paper in the area with a razor knife.

Avanti posted:

One option is to start by covering the whole layout with brown butcher paper. Then you can put down temporary ground cover with wild abandon. When the time comes to develop a plot, just cut out the paper in the area with a razor knife.

Good idea also, thanks.

Just do not do elaborate scenery where you think you will build out in the future.  I usually use foam ground cover.  It can be scraped off and reused.  I have used it to do trees.  Sometimes I soak in water to remove glue; sometimes it's fine  as scraped.  Static grass might also be reusable but I haven't scraped any up, yet.

Brendan

Do a little of this and a little of that. Unless you're having the layout professionally built, you can't do it all at once. I first painted the OSB subroadbed earth tan basically to keep the awful splinters in check. The town surface is green foam board and is bare where there are no structures. The meadows and open land are now terrain and ground cover waiting for the real estate developers to do their thing. The last exposed area is now prepared to receive the refinery project that currently underway. I have buildings slated for construction out a couple of years. Whatever you do, don't glue your buildings down. Make them on their own building boards and make a "landscape socket" that holds the building. This way, you can remove the buildings for repair, mods, or sale without damaging them or the layout.

Trainman2001 posted:

Do a little of this and a little of that. Unless you're having the layout professionally built, you can't do it all at once. I first painted the OSB subroadbed earth tan basically to keep the awful splinters in check. The town surface is green foam board and is bare where there are no structures. The meadows and open land are now terrain and ground cover waiting for the real estate developers to do their thing. The last exposed area is now prepared to receive the refinery project that currently underway. I have buildings slated for construction out a couple of years. Whatever you do, don't glue your buildings down. Make them on their own building boards and make a "landscape socket" that holds the building. This way, you can remove the buildings for repair, mods, or sale without damaging them or the layout.

Honestly, gluing the buildings down never crossed my mind. I figured the Menards buildings are heavy and stable enough on their own just by placing them onto the plywood.

What worked for me on my HO layout and what I plan to do on my 3 rail layout is to simply lay the track in place. I put the main line and passing tracks in place. UNspiked and no wiring.  Mark the center line so you can come back and return the track to that place.  It would be helpful to also mark the ends of the ties so you know the width.  I also put the switches in for industries while marking right of way.

Now my pencil scratching gave me something similar to a trackplan, so now I had to find where the structures would actually fit AND leave room for another industry on the opposite side of the track between the switch and the end of the spur, thus two shippers or receivers on each track...some of the time.  If you do not have the structure, it helps to at least know the footprint of that structure.  Cut out a piece of cardboard and lay it on the layout top where you want the structure.  Make your track go to there and have some "fudge factor" to juggle as needed.

Now simply paint the "non railroad area" with a grass green.  If you KNOW where you want roads, go ahead and paint them black or dark gray or even brown for dirt.

You can always paint over the first color of paint should you realize later that the road and structure will not fit in the same area between tracks.

You want more realism?  Fine, simply scatter some ground foam and ground cover (appropriate colors for soil and grass, etc) on the WET paint.  If you need to add some more, hold it in place with a spray of warm water and matte medium (less "sticky than Elmer's white glue" but stone simple to mix a small amount of matte medium to a spray bottle with water.  Shake well...FREQUENTLY.  I try to make enough for this project today and then rinse and clean everything after I am done.

I painted hills with a brush and/or latex paint and water mixed in the same spray bottle (which is why I washed it and cleaned it frequently).  A "water soluable approach" that I stole from Dave Frary and Bob Hayden's book.  It worked so well, I was surprised at my success...you see I do not consider myself "artistic"...and while nothing I did would convince anyone that I WAS artistic, it impressed ME and that is all that counts.  No offense, but NO ONE BUT ME is registered to vote in my own EGO elections.  (smile)

You get the basics.  I would mention that I used a view block down the middle of the table/bench work/shelf so I could get twice the modeling without the visual distraction of someone switching behind me.  When I operated that layout, I got lost in the reality of switching specific cars to specific industry spots, pulling cars designated to be picked up and keeping my cars "to be spotted" in proper order.

I am comfortable with painting the Homasote or the top of your layout as a stop gap measure.  You can dress it up if you elect to do so.

About the same time I was reading Frary and Hayden's scenery book, I was also reading Allen McClelland's V&O Story where I picked up the concept of Good Enough.  That phrase means something different to everyone who runs model trains.  While green carpet or layout mat does not make ME feel like it is a realistic scene...the ONLY person who has to be happy is the person who owns that layout.

Once I get to that mystical place (good enough) I know it and stop.  Is my work good enough to be in a slick magazine with high quality photography...of course...it can always serve as a bad example.

Just like in the real world, everything has to fit...track, roads, pastures, buildings, industries, yards, hills, ponds and lakes and streams....

My current layout has a Homasote layer on top of all the plywood. The Homasote was painted a flat black color.  Over the past few years that paint has been absorbed and oxidized to the point it is a dark gray.  The whole idea was a darker background color would help to hide the center rail on my Atlas track.  When I am satisfied with my track plan, I will go thru the entire process listed above.  But I already know about where everything will go and fit.  Then I will fine tune the soil and grass and roads and building plots and ballast for the tracks.

I hope something in the above rambling nonsense helps more than it confuses.

Tony Wright posted:

What worked for me on my HO layout and what I plan to do on my 3 rail layout is to simply lay the track in place. I put the main line and passing tracks in place. UNspiked and no wiring.  Mark the center line so you can come back and return the track to that place.  It would be helpful to also mark the ends of the ties so you know the width.  I also put the switches in for industries while marking right of way.

Now my pencil scratching gave me something similar to a trackplan, so now I had to find where the structures would actually fit AND leave room for another industry on the opposite side of the track between the switch and the end of the spur, thus two shippers or receivers on each track...some of the time.  If you do not have the structure, it helps to at least know the footprint of that structure.  Cut out a piece of cardboard and lay it on the layout top where you want the structure.  Make your track go to there and have some "fudge factor" to juggle as needed.

Now simply paint the "non railroad area" with a grass green.  If you KNOW where you want roads, go ahead and paint them black or dark gray or even brown for dirt.

You can always paint over the first color of paint should you realize later that the road and structure will not fit in the same area between tracks.

You want more realism?  Fine, simply scatter some ground foam and ground cover (appropriate colors for soil and grass, etc) on the WET paint.  If you need to add some more, hold it in place with a spray of warm water and matte medium (less "sticky than Elmer's white glue" but stone simple to mix a small amount of matte medium to a spray bottle with water.  Shake well...FREQUENTLY.  I try to make enough for this project today and then rinse and clean everything after I am done.

I painted hills with a brush and/or latex paint and water mixed in the same spray bottle (which is why I washed it and cleaned it frequently).  A "water soluable approach" that I stole from Dave Frary and Bob Hayden's book.  It worked so well, I was surprised at my success...you see I do not consider myself "artistic"...and while nothing I did would convince anyone that I WAS artistic, it impressed ME and that is all that counts.  No offense, but NO ONE BUT ME is registered to vote in my own EGO elections.  (smile)

You get the basics.  I would mention that I used a view block down the middle of the table/bench work/shelf so I could get twice the modeling without the visual distraction of someone switching behind me.  When I operated that layout, I got lost in the reality of switching specific cars to specific industry spots, pulling cars designated to be picked up and keeping my cars "to be spotted" in proper order.

I am comfortable with painting the Homasote or the top of your layout as a stop gap measure.  You can dress it up if you elect to do so.

About the same time I was reading Frary and Hayden's scenery book, I was also reading Allen McClelland's V&O Story where I picked up the concept of Good Enough.  That phrase means something different to everyone who runs model trains.  While green carpet or layout mat does not make ME feel like it is a realistic scene...the ONLY person who has to be happy is the person who owns that layout.

Once I get to that mystical place (good enough) I know it and stop.  Is my work good enough to be in a slick magazine with high quality photography...of course...it can always serve as a bad example.

Just like in the real world, everything has to fit...track, roads, pastures, buildings, industries, yards, hills, ponds and lakes and streams....

My current layout has a Homasote layer on top of all the plywood. The Homasote was painted a flat black color.  Over the past few years that paint has been absorbed and oxidized to the point it is a dark gray.  The whole idea was a darker background color would help to hide the center rail on my Atlas track.  When I am satisfied with my track plan, I will go thru the entire process listed above.  But I already know about where everything will go and fit.  Then I will fine tune the soil and grass and roads and building plots and ballast for the tracks.

 

I hope something in the above rambling nonsense helps more than it confuses.

That was a good read, thanks. I just have to figure out now if I want more scenic buildings on my layout like the Menards buildings or if I should do post war Lionel accessories.

So many different choices there are but I'm hoping if I decide on a particular building and leave space for it that it doesn't get discontinued as Menards did with their barn building.

For what my 2 cents is worth...I would note that unless you are trying to relive YOUR youth or impress your grandkids...you can get a little more mileage out of a warehouse with a dock and "who knows what inside the warehouse"...it gives you the freedom to declare the red warehouse as the local fresh produce distributor for 3 counties and the gray warehouse as the shipping department for the local furniture manufacturing.  Thus you run different cars to the two tracks or the two customers on one track.  Now add a storage tank on the same track as the other two warehouses...and you could have a plastic manufacturer where you require a tank car, a covered hopper (empty for loading) and box cars from the other side of the country with machine parts or chemicals and material for the manufacturing process and other box cars bringing in the materials for the boxes for packaging some of the plastic products which are shipped out ONLY by "home road" boxcars.  (Home road would be YOUR railroad reporting marks...like UP or NYC or ATSF or PRR or ?????)  But a barrel loader unloads barrels into a gondola because that is all it can do.

After all, this is all a game in our own minds.  We imagine these are real freight cars bound for customers someplace...or they are shipping things that we need to let us manufacture our product that needs to be shipped out...or delivered locally to waiting customers.

And in the case of a team track, you don't have to have more than a dock and perhaps an overhead crane to off load merchandise and material for customers located "off the rails".  Could be a tractor and implement dealer off loading a new tractor or combine...or the same dealer could have 3 new heavy construction tractors delivered for that new arena they are building for that NBA franchise in downtown OKC.  It could happen.  You knew that Chesapeake Arena is one block from the ATSF main from Chicago/KCMO/OKC to Ft Worth/Houston/Galveston, right?  And on an older era, OKC had one of the largest livestock auction houses in the nation with three large packing plants.

(Of course, my hometown is on a dead end of a former ATSF branchline now operated by a shortline.)

Again, just my 2 cents.

Now go to bed!

My approach, not very original, was to use temporary scenery for areas that I wasn't ready to install final structures.  With a shack and a bunch of cut up dyed dowels on dirt were used to make a pulpwood lot in an area slotted for a factory.  The future site of a store in town temporarily was decorated as a parking lot.  Future home sites were dirt footprints with a "For Sale-Home lot" sign by the side of the road.  All of these involved minimal efforts and could easily be undone when I was ready to actually do the planned scenery.