ceiling

Do you trust this setup to hold a $1500.00 Big Boy with out it crashing to the floor?  If so, have at it.  if not add some fall protection.

How does it attach to the ceiling? The track has no additional support between the 'suspenders' ? I think it will be unsightly, doubtful engineering, inconvenient to install and service, and very limited operation.

yes by now the design has no additional support between the 'suspenders' as u say, I let it in that way because I don't see any big deflection on the rails when the locomotive passes over, all the other cars are very low weight .

Both the suspenders and the ceiling are hard wood, so it is more easy for me just to screw them...

The part of my Ceiling Central RR that I suspended in front of a brick wall was made of 12" wide shelves, the same material I used on the other three walls that I used wall bracelets.  Mine is good and sturdy, but I do want to put some kind of barrier at the edge just in case.  So far, I have only run inexpensive trains on the outer track for testing purposes.

I like Mark's arrangement with solid boards to support the track. Fewer supports are needed which is simpler to construct and has a cleaner look. If the track does not have solid continuous support there is more chance of the track flexing under a train load and more risk of derailment.

I would only let other people run their own trains on those tracks. 

Interesting design. 36 cm is just over 14 inches in 'murican.  Not very far really, so that might well work. Have you done any empirical testing...say, put a weight over a length of unsupported track for a few days, to see if there is any flex?

What worries me are the curves. Gargraves is pretty stiff, but only when you press straight down on it. It will twist easily, which is what I would be afraid of happening on the outside of an unsupported curve. I think you will have to add something under the curves to stiffen it. Any deflection on a curve is a problem when you are dealing with steam locos, and the longer they are the worse the problem is.

Track joints are weak points, in Gargraves especially. Any unsupported joints will buckle, guaranteed.

As far as needing guardrails? In my experience derailments are caused by four things:

1) Turnouts. Something will always go wrong here; it's just a matter of time. 2) The track is uneven, and the wheel climbs over a low spot - worried that this condition could develop on your turns. 3) A fast-moving train stops suddenly, and the cars derail. 4) One train collides with another. If you eliminate all four of these things, then I would say that you can do without the guardrails.

I think it is a good-looking design whose visual impact is trebled by the lack of substantial benchwork --that is, if you can pull it off! I would say, test, test, test until you are certain that it only looks unsafe. And don't be satisfied until you eliminate all deflection of the track, on the curves especially.

thank u for your comment, yes I have made some test but some more are not bad idea, in fact I can run all the train sitting on a table with the wood bases to see how it works. I agree about the curves... now I'm thinking about using acrylic in all the track but for that it will be better to use wall mounted supports...

I will take some videos and photos on the test...

What about this acrylic profile?:

in this configuration u can see the train from everywhere and not hide the rails that was my first intention, plus the train will never falls. But the profile will be expensive I think... Nobody sells it already?

I've been thinking about this too and found some tempered glass shelves on Google that are 12"x36"x3/16" for $8.48 each. There are also all kinds of bar shelves of different sizes sold. The McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park has a ceiling layout and I think it is see-thru, so I'll have to take a run over there to double-check and find out what they used and where they got it.

Mark Boyce posted:

Hey, what is my train doing up there? Similar to my 1513 set with substitute gray tank car.

I think Dave has the solution I would have used.  Tempered glass shelves have been around for a long time.  I prefer wall support for the selves.  Unless you have a particular design for the ceiling suspension system that you have to have, the wall supports will not be subject to any swaying.  That's not to say that a system suspended from the ceiling wouldn't be stiff enough, it's just my preference.  

Wall bracket that would work well with glass shelves and be un-obtrusive.  

You can find the straight shelves fairly easily, as Dave has shown.  The corner shelves might have to be custom made at any glass supplier.  They would simply be a triangle and shouldn't break the bank.  

I used the closet wiring system and turned it upside down.  I can only run one loop around the ceiling, however, the system accommodates 0-72 curves and two storage sidings and is see-through.  

How u can get the books behind?

Anyway this is the unfinished prototype for the supports:

What about this other configuration ?(again entirely on hard wood):

That's much nicer and I don't think you will have deflection as I see the ties are sitting in a groove. I still would put another "fence" on the other side as a train leaning into a curve would want to be pushing it towards the inside. Otherwise I think it is really nice idea and good looking too..

Of the 3 ideas you posted, the last seems the best.  As for the acrylic one, I'd never trust it.  Sure, acrylic is strong, but like ceramic, it's brittle and fails spectacularly.  There will be little to no warning, it'll just go.

sigi posted:

What about this other configuration ?(again entirely on hard wood):

It provides continuous support for the track and a protective railing. It isn't readily adaptable to curves. Frankly, I think the railing as shown would be visually obtrusive. The track support would be a lot simpler with just a solid plank, with the track at the outer edge for better visibility of the train. I don't see that much is gained by having open space between the ties, although it gives a bridge girder effect.

I'm really not a fan of ceiling layouts because they are inconvenient to access and work on, not the best viewing angle for trains, require a lot of attachments to walls and/or ceiling which will probably have to be patched over some day, typically have limited operating potential with very basic track plan, potential for major damage to trains if they derail, etc.

If you do build a ceiling layout I would start off by running trains of low value until you can be sure the tracking is totally flawless and derailment-free. Train length should be limited according to the minimum radius, to reduce chances of pulling cars off the inside of a curve.

I would encourage you to consider other alternatives for layout space that is more conveniently accessible. An O27 layout can fit on a long shelf 30" wide along one side of a room over existing furniture, and it would have space for buildings and scenic enhancements and side tracks.

I agree with Ace's comments.  I would not have built one except when we bought my mother-in-law's house, I didn't have  room for a regular layout until our girls left home.  The ceiling layout was my wife's idea.  A good idea.  Better than nothing, but it is a pain.  I have to keep a small step ladder nearby, and it is tough on the neck.  Once our one daughter married, I put a 4x8 layout in her old room, along with guest furniture.  Once our other daughter gets married this summer, I will get a whole 12x12 room for my new layout.  My guess is I will only run some postwar trains once in a while on the Ceiling Central RR.

lionel89 posted:

I used the closet wiring system and turned it upside down.  I can only run one loop around the ceiling, however, the system accommodates 0-72 curves and two storage sidings and is see-through.  

 Great idea,
I do not have a lay out but have a lot of trains and was planning to do a ceiling type track in a 8' X 12' shed that I built (built like a house not a shed). I was going do do a wood angle brackets with a 1 by 6 pine board with plywood ends/corners.
This is a lot cleaner and will go up a lot faster, plus easy to clean as I would open the door and window turn on a exhaust fan and use a leaf blower. Plus turning the shelf over give a nice guard rail.
I see that the longest shelf is is 72".
How did you join the two together?
Do they make a coupling to join the two together?
What is the width of your shelf?
Like your display custom are they custom made?

I agree, If I had it to do over again, I would definitely run this idea by my wife.  Much easier.

SIGI,

I have always liked this acrylic rod/copper fitting ceiling layout. I think it's proof that your method will work. This layout has no side protection, except near switching areas. Obviously, the engine speed and operation must be careful.

RonH posted:

lionel89 posted:

I used the closet wiring system and turned it upside down.  I can only run one loop around the ceiling, however, the system accommodates 0-72 curves and two storage sidings and is see-through.  

Great idea,
I do not have a lay out but have a lot of trains and was planning to do a ceiling type track in a 8' X 12' shed that I built (built like a house not a shed). I was going do do a wood angle brackets with a 1 by 6 pine board with plywood ends/corners.
This is a lot cleaner and will go up a lot faster, plus easy to clean as I would open the door and window turn on a exhaust fan and use a leaf blower. Plus turning the shelf over give a nice guard rail.
I see that the longest shelf is is 72".
How did you join the two together?
Do they make a coupling to join the two together?
What is the width of your shelf?
Like your display custom are they custom made?

Thanks Ron.  My ceiling layout is over 14 years old, so I am not sure what type of hardware is made now.  However, when I did mine, they made plastic coupling pieces (see pic below).  My shelf is 12 inches in width.  Feel free to email me if you have any questions.  Please see the following forum thread regarding my custom display cases:  https://ogrforum.com/t...y-first-display-case

Moonman posted:

SIGI,

I have always liked this acrylic rod/copper fitting ceiling layout. I think it's proof that your method will work. This layout has no side protection, except near switching areas. Obviously, the engine speed and operation must be careful.

the initial idea was based on your system... 

thank u all for the comments...

based on ACE comment now I'm on a crown style, something like this:

At least I will see some part of the ties... only problem now is to choose the fall protection mounted on extensions from the down side of the plank, maybe wood, fishing line, Enamel Insulated Copper Wire (interesting because it is like red wood)... 

In my fireplace we have 5" crown but I think for this it is too much...

Moonman posted:

SIGI,

I have always liked this acrylic rod/copper fitting ceiling layout. I think it's proof that your method will work. This layout has no side protection, except near switching areas. Obviously, the engine speed and operation must be careful.

why u use cables under the tracks?

And finally from this:

to this:

and the bridge...

running...

Video says it's Private, so can't view it.

fixed.

Gorgeous wood work...  Looks good with the door and ceiling. 

SIGI,

If you have wood walls to attach them, I recommend 5" large brackets and 10 inch wide pine that is mounted as shown.  You have to cut out the corners and dowel them like you see all the guys have done.  A backdrop hides the bracketing which provides plenty of support.  All the long boards are doweled to each other.  I would stain and seal it to match the walls as best you can.  The idea is to make the track boards look like the supporting walls.  When silent, newcomers may not even notice there is a layout up there.  Also, my opinion is to double track it.  No sense in going through all that work for just one main line.   The added action stirs a lot of interest from the fans.

As for running, you have to keep an eye on them.  I've had this overhead for over a year now, 7 1/2" from the ceiling.  I run two DCS trains on each main line for a total of four trains running all at once.  They will catch each other from time to time, so make sure your units are protected with fuses/circuit breakers.  The only time one fell was when I was yakking during happy hour and forgot to start one of the engines.  Bang.  Four cars fell, but all were repaired quite easily.   Make sure that Gargraves is solidly screwed down, and your derailments will be quite minimal.   Collisions are rare.

Good luck with your project.  It will be a lot of fun.

Jerry

Sugi, Jerry,

They both look great!

Thanks, I can run the train @ full speed and I don't see a minimal chance to fall but fishing line will not work as a "murphy's law" fall protection, a non elastic line is needed for that purpose, so I will go for the enamel insulated copper wire...