Chicago April Show?

Would love to go, but just can't afford to do so. If you E-mail them, they would probably send you a vendor list.

Have a nice time.

Simon

Where did you read Atlas is attending the Chicago meet, I don't see it on their calendar.  York is less than 2 weeks later and they always attend York.

Yes, Sunset will be represented by both Scott and Bob Heil.  Key has always attended in the past so I would expect Dave to attend this year.

rdunniii posted:

Where did you read Atlas is attending the Chicago meet, I don't see it on their calendar.  York is less than 2 weeks later and they always attend York.

Yes, Sunset will be represented by both Scott and Bob Heil.  Key has always attended in the past so I would expect Dave to attend this year.

I've attended Chicago for many years but I seldom see Atlas there.  Correction, they were there last year (thanks Hot Water)  eh, I'm getting senile.

Key is always there and either Dave DaVita (or Roger Lewis) is manning the KEY  tables.

Stephen, please be sure to enter some of your models in the contest.  You've shown your work here and it is very nice.

For my own edification: by "Chicago Show" are we talking about the monthly Great Midwest Train Show at the DuPage fairgrounds in Wheaton?

JTrains posted:

For my own edification: by "Chicago Show" are we talking about the monthly Great Midwest Train Show at the DuPage fairgrounds in Wheaton?

No, not at all. The is the annual "March Meet", which has been organized by the Hill family, for many, many years, and is NOT held in Wheaton at the DuPage County Fair grounds. This has been one of the, if not THE, largest 2-Rail O Scale meet in the U.S..

Hot Water posted:

JTrains posted:

For my own edification: by "Chicago Show" are we talking about the monthly Great Midwest Train Show at the DuPage fairgrounds in Wheaton?

No, not at all. The is the annual "March Meet", which has been organized by the Hill family, for many, many years, and is NOT held in Wheaton at the DuPage County Fair grounds. This has been one of the, if not THE, largest 2-Rail O Scale meet in the U.S..

Maybe if everybody had the web site handy..........

http://www.marchmeet.net/

mwb posted:

Hot Water posted:

JTrains posted:

For my own edification: by "Chicago Show" are we talking about the monthly Great Midwest Train Show at the DuPage fairgrounds in Wheaton?

No, not at all. The is the annual "March Meet", which has been organized by the Hill family, for many, many years, and is NOT held in Wheaton at the DuPage County Fair grounds. This has been one of the, if not THE, largest 2-Rail O Scale meet in the U.S..

Maybe if everybody had the web site handy..........

http://www.marchmeet.net/

Ah, perfect - thanks to all for the clarification and web site (I hadn't found it when Googling for it).

rdunniii posted:

Where did you read Atlas is attending the Chicago meet......

Atlas is listed as running a clinic on Saturday afternoon featuring the California Zephyr.  It mentions the free DVD offer in the clinic description.

big train posted:

rdunniii posted:

Where did you read Atlas is attending the Chicago meet......

Atlas is listed as running a clinic on Saturday afternoon featuring the California Zephyr.  It mentions the free DVD offer in the clinic description.

Jerry Kimble himself was there last year, with a very nice set-up in the outside lobby area, just before entering the "ballroom". I would expect him, and some staff, to be there again this year, representing Atlas.

Didn't realize this was close to me, it's literally right down the street. Looks like I know where I will be on the April 2nd.

Vendor list from last year, from memory, not all-inclusive by any means.

Key, OST, Rails Unlimited, Caboose Stop Hobbies, P&D, Des Plaines, Kohs, Sunset/3rd Rail, Baldwin Forge, Altoona Model Works, Bill Davis/American Scale Models, Midwestern Model Works, O Scale Resource, Union Station Products, Atlas, Mike Deberg, Protocraft, Keil-Line, Right-of-Way, Hill Hobbies, Mullet River, Berkshire Valley, Rich Yoder......

Unknown vendors include somebody selling Marcway turnouts, a book and photo vendor, the guy that does the CNW passenger cars, and several others I can't think of at the moment.

Glenn with Mullet River retired, Lou Cross with Right-of-Way passed recently, the owners of Berkshire Valley retired, and John Keil with Keil-Line passed away.  I know Right-of-Way will continue on, but won't be at this show due to required California legal terms when transferring the company.  Somebody bought Berkshire Valley, but I don't know if they will be at the show.  Glenn Guerra will likely be with O Scale Resource, but I don't know if he will have any Mullet River product with him (or if he even has any left).

big train posted:

Somebody bought Berkshire Valley, but I don't know if they will be at the show.   

The new owners were at the meet 2 years ago.

I'm hopeful that the new owners of the Keil-line products will be at the meet.

If I could attend only one O scale show a year this is the one I'd choose for reason of size and scope.  The Hill family runs a fantastic show.  In addition to being able to meet and talk with the importers and large dealers, I particularly like the many "non-dealer" tables with lots of unexpected finds typically at reasonable prices.  Unfortunately I can't make the meet this year due to a prior commitment.

big train posted:

 the guy that does the CNW passenger cars,

Eddie Wichman, I believe.

Simon

mwb posted:

big train posted:

Somebody bought Berkshire Valley, but I don't know if they will be at the show.   

The new owners were at the meet 2 years ago.

I'm hopeful that the new owners of the Keil-line products will be at the meet.

Martin,

I spoke to the Milners at Cleveland last October and they said they would be there at the same table location that John and Martha had. Also said they would be at Strasburg.

rheil posted:

mwb posted:

I'm hopeful that the new owners of the Keil-line products will be at the meet.

Martin,

I spoke to the Milners at Cleveland last October and they said they would be there at the same table location that John and Martha had. Also said they would be at Strasburg.Outstanding

Outstanding.  Good to know as I need to talk to them.....  They were one of the past Strasburg shows which is where I met them.

I just finished one of their kits (laser cut structure) and started on a 2nd one (resin cast structure) a few days ago.

I've always enjoyed this show. Funny that they're still calling it "March Meet" when it's now in April. I'm going to make a weekend of it and go see some of the layouts this year.

- RICH

richtrow posted:

I've always enjoyed this show. Funny that they're still calling it "March Meet" when it's now in April. I'm going to make a weekend of it and go see some of the layouts this year.

- RICH

Yes, well this appears to be only a "one time occurrence", as a result of some big "high roller" renting the entire hotel at the same time frame as all previous Mach Meets, plus Easter falling on Sunday March 27 this year.

Hot Water posted:

big train posted:

rdunniii posted:

Where did you read Atlas is attending the Chicago meet......

Atlas is listed as running a clinic on Saturday afternoon featuring the California Zephyr.  It mentions the free DVD offer in the clinic description.

Jerry Kimble himself was there last year, with a very nice set-up in the outside lobby area, just before entering the "ballroom". I would expect him, and some staff, to be there again this year, representing Atlas.

Big year for Atlas with the F7s, Gundersons and now full Cal Zep sets, matching Fs I am sure they will be at every big venue this year,just saying!

rattler21 posted:

Jack,   We were in Berwyn Trains yesterday, Tom has Atlas Zephyr cars on the top shelf.  Priced per car, not as a group.  John in Lansing.

Yes, I know as I visit there every Saturday morning. I have already purchased the two CZ cars I wanted. Thanks.

I'll be there...with my wallet....

I told that Sunset will be there along with Atlas Kohs and Midwestern Model works. But Key will not be there this year and is his website is not active to get in touch with him.  If this is different than what I am told please let us know. Tom Marsh was at the Indy show. I hope he will be at the Chicago O Show too. Shows mean a lot more to me when the big guys are there. Does any one else know of other "BIG GUYS" that will be there? Maybe Erik or Rodger could give us an answer why Key may miss this show.

Stephen

Norm from Norm’s O-Scale & Norm from Protocraft will be there.I made arrangements to pick up some track related stuff from them at the show.

Bill from O-Scale Turnouts will be there. He plans to introduce some new turnout related stuff along with a 66” display for turnout detail parts.

These are just my opinion. Thanks.

Naveen Rajan

Uh oh. Also tried to ring up Key's website yesterday........zero.   Hope not an ominous sign.  

Mark: That is what is said. No one has corrected this nor has Roger or Erik responded. I hope this is not true, as I had items ordered from Key for customers. I was really looking forward to seeing the big boy prototype model again  in Chicago. I thought it was a very highly detailed model.

Stephen

If any of them (especially Dave, who lives in California) have allergies like I do I can understand.  I haven't had them this bad since I was a kid 50+ years ago.  This wacky California El Nino has just had plants growing their behind's off to catch up after the past 4 years. 

Roger's Wasatch Models website is up and his update says he is reordering the Cudo 3 axle passenger trucks.  Don't know what this means as far as Key Imports but I am taking it as a good sign.

VGN64: Actually with Key not attending the Chicago show and the Key (not Wasatch) website being down for a long period of time  with projects supposedly coming looks to be a not so good sign. The Zephyr cars delayed now for more than six years and no updates on the projects does not sound good. I do hope that there is a change and Key does show at the Chicago O meet. Now that Overland is no longer doing brass, it would sad to lose another importer. Tom marsh said at the Indy meet that the Key Early F2& 3 projects or now on hold as there are not enough orders.

Stephen

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

VGN64 posted:

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

 

I do not believe Atlas introduction of these sets affects Key at all, bear in mind if delivered within the next year or two  a 12 car set from Key would probably fall in the 15K +/- range [truly serious collector level] F units on the other hand might feel some impact although they sold out all their last runs. JMO Unfortunately the quest for the ultimate detailed model continues to push this collectors market ever higher. As an aside I had heard just recently that Key was having some builder problems [talking a very high level of hand built craftsmanship on the part of the builders] There has been nothing out there from Key saying they are shelving these models, I do believe in recent years it has been much more difficult for importers to get models built to these detail levels. just saying!

VGN64 posted:

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

 

Not sure that Atlas or 3rd Rail are in the same league as Key (or Kohs or MMW) nor are they trying to be.

Atlas is nice (as is 3rd Rail) but they are far from state of the art in accuracy and ultimate fidelity.   They can't be at their price point as well as the need to make some compromises to make the models for both the 2 rail and 3 rail markets.

Key/Kohs/MMW are state of the art in accuracy and fidelity and have a price to match it.

With that said, the injection molded kits from San Juan Car Company and most recently the SP GS gondola from Jimmy Booth at Glacier Park Models are state of the art. 

http://www.glacierparkmodels.com/ACF_GONS_1.html

At the end of the day it's still the same issue whether brass or plastic.  Assembly and painting take time and time is money.

Rule292 posted:

..........the SP GS gondola from Jimmy Booth at Glacier Park Models are state of the art. 

http://www.glacierparkmodels.com/ACF_GONS_1.html

At the end of the day it's still the same issue whether brass or plastic.  Assembly and painting take time and time is money.

That might be one of the most detailed kits I've ever assembled and for the money it's very hard to beat.  As for time & money...if you don't have a lot of the latter, spending the cost & time on this kit to get a few of these cars is a bargain vs. the comparable brass.

VGN64 posted:

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

 

Yes, but the brass industry is changing as well (or should be).  Prices to produce high end brass models should not reflect the labor intensive craftsmanship as they once were.  High end 3D wax printers are available (a nice jewelry quality 3D wax printer runs around $50K) so rapid development of lost wax components is available.  A whole labor-taking step of making the rubber mold can be skipped, if you want multiple copies of a part, then just print more wax copies.  The wax pattern quality will be better as you do not loose any detail by going from master pattern to rubber mold to wax copy.  Now the wax copy is the 3D printed master pattern.   Pattern makers now draw the part to the exacting level of detail they desire in 3D software instead of hand crafting a pattern from some construction material, like brass, styrene or wax.  MMW's recent posting of their 3D truck renderings are a perfect example of this.  The only thing that changes is the skillset and time to produce.  Modifications can easily be made to the drawing to match road specific details, as well, without having to remake an entire new pattern from scratch.  If the same use of technology can reduce the cost of making an injection molded model, then so too can that same (or similar) technology reduce the cost and time-to-market  of making a brass model.

Scott Kay

Austin, TX

Keys website is back !!!!!!!!!!

nw2124 posted:

Mark: That is what is said.

By who?

The Key website is back up but it has not been updated in 6 months [no news is no news] JMO

mwb posted:

Rule292 posted:

..........the SP GS gondola from Jimmy Booth at Glacier Park Models are state of the art. 

http://www.glacierparkmodels.com/ACF_GONS_1.html

At the end of the day it's still the same issue whether brass or plastic.  Assembly and painting take time and time is money.

That might be one of the most detailed kits I've ever assembled and for the money it's very hard to beat.  As for time & money...if you don't have a lot of the latter, spending the cost & time on this kit to get a few of these cars is a bargain vs. the comparable brass.

Does the kit price [100.00] include trucks and decals, also are all components plastic [like Red Caboose]?

Scott Kay posted:

VGN64 posted:

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

 

Yes, but the brass industry is changing as well (or should be).  Prices to produce high end brass models should not reflect the labor intensive craftsmanship as they once were.  High end 3D wax printers are available (a nice jewelry quality 3D wax printer runs around $50K) so rapid development of lost wax components is available.  A whole labor-taking step of making the rubber mold can be skipped, if you want multiple copies of a part, then just print more wax copies.  The wax pattern quality will be better as you do not loose any detail by going from master pattern to rubber mold to wax copy.  Now the wax copy is the 3D printed master pattern.   Pattern makers now draw the part to the exacting level of detail they desire in 3D software instead of hand crafting a pattern from some construction material, like brass, styrene or wax.  MMW's recent posting of their 3D truck renderings are a perfect example of this.  The only thing that changes is the skillset and time to produce.  Modifications can easily be made to the drawing to match road specific details, as well, without having to remake an entire new pattern from scratch.  If the same use of technology can reduce the cost of making an injection molded model, then so too can that same (or similar) technology reduce the cost and time-to-market  of making a brass model.

Scott Kay

Austin, TX

What you are saying is no doubt true today, I suspect due to very low production numbers most of these potential savings are at best very limited, as an example MMW has yet to produce a finished model and must rely on his builder to produce finished painted shells and running gear which is then to be assembled and lighting and power installed here, lots of steps to a finished product. just saying!

hibar posted:

VGN64 posted:

The industry is changing as injection plastic molds are less expensive to do.   Time is money so the amount of time spent preparing for a brass model gets higher and higher as the customer demands more exacting rivets, bells and whistles.  Judging by the success of Sunset/Golden Gates latest passenger trains and Atlas's Zephyr the world of $800-$1000 passenger cars may be disappearing.  I can understand Key shelving the Zephyr and F units seeing what Atlas is doing. 

 

I do not believe Atlas introduction of these sets affects Key at all, bear in mind if delivered within the next year or two  a 12 car set from Key would probably fall in the 15K +/- range [truly serious collector level] F units on the other hand might feel some impact although they sold out all their last runs. JMO Unfortunately the quest for the ultimate detailed model continues to push this collectors market ever higher. As an aside I had heard just recently that Key was having some builder problems [talking a very high level of hand built craftsmanship on the part of the builders] There has been nothing out there from Key saying they are shelving these models, I do believe in recent years it has been much more difficult for importers to get models built to these detail levels. just saying!

As hibar has stated the he heard of Key having builder problems, I am very nervous if the projects I and my customers will get made. In my opinion the Big Boy is a safer bet ordered with Kohs due to The builder problems. Could someone explain about the builder of Key's very detailed Big Boy sample And why the dealer is no longer doing the project. Again I was hoping to see it at Chicago. Stephen