Clockwork trains with battery lights

Lionel had their 1508 loco from 1934/35 also with a light and battery.  Not to be confused with the 1511.  The 1508 has a Bell, compared to the 1511 which had a whistle.  The 1506 "Mickey Mouse with Stoker" was another with a battery for a headlight. According to the TCA Standard of the World book, the Mickey Mouse tendered cars did not find any with 'Lionel Ives', but did have a 'Lionel Line' lithographed tender.

one version of the Flyer Type VII "Limited" tender held a battery for a version of the Type XV clockwork locomotive along with a few of the transition sheet metal Types.  the #553 power car in the sheet metal version of the 9990 Zepher also was available with a battery powered headlight.

Marx was at least thinking about it.  his long Joy Line tender had a sheet metal configuration in the tender that appears sized for a battery, but the electrical connections were never added before those early locomotive types went out of production.

pretty sure the Lionel clockwork pieces were ex-Ives production.

Google translation says... "Then, the mechanical locos "JEP" are also in kind of electric locos.  But they are the only ones who possess this quality in the world of toys".  not that i completely get it, but sounds more like they are touting their general quality (they are pretty nice!) rather than specifically the battery headlight aspect, though it could be out of context given the small part of what may be a larger description.

cheers...gary

Gary,

A "Qualité" in this context is a feature and not the general JEP quality (which by the way is very good). Here is  a translation of that page made by the British TCS (Train Collectors Society):

Anyway, there are at least 4 manufacturers that made locomotives with this feature.

Regards

Fred

Marx did make some with the headlight. Some prewar Vanderbilts had them as well as the the later large 933.

Steve

Fred, earlier than your model JEP has produced a very nice one with a lamp at the front of the engine and the tender to store a battery. It is the first use of this tender well proportionned with the loco which was a little later converted to be used with the Flechette 440 locomotive for which it looks a little small.  The N°7 set is from 1935.

Daniel

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Marx did make some with the headlight. Some prewar Vanderbilts had them as well as the the later large 933.

Steve

ok, i forgot about the CV, but i thought that was also a case of planned, but never implemented.  i did forget about the later locomotives with the push/ pull stack switches... probably because i don't have any.    thanks for the correction!

cheers...gary

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

... JEP has produced a very nice one with a lamp at the front of the engine and the tender to store a battery....

do you know what sort of battery JEPs used?
still available?

thanks...gary

and finally, noticing something sitting on a shelf pretty much right in front of me...

the Marx Rapid Transit Trolley had a battery headlight version.

along with one of the worst c̶l̶o̶c̶k̶w̶o̶r̶k̶  wind-up drives imaginable.

overlandflyer posted:

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

... JEP has produced a very nice one with a lamp at the front of the engine and the tender to store a battery....

do you know what sort of battery JEPs used?
still available?

thanks...gary

Gary, you can use a 4.5 volts flat battery, manufacturer of your choice of course 

Daniel

Daniel,

Standard 4.5 Volt "flat" batteries do not fit in the JEP tender; you need a special type which is 4.5 Volt but is smaller and is (or was) used in France but not common outside France. According to the TCS measurement are 52 by 47 by 16 MM. One of the type numbers is Philips 3R8P.

Here is the (English and French) instruction sheet that came with my locomotive. Until now I have not found a matching battery.

Regards

Fred

Many thanks Fred for that information, even if it is less nice that i would hope...... I was expecting since some time to try it and was thinking that todays batteries would go. Now i realise that it is going to be a major problem to find the right size. I am afraid that those specific dimension batteries are not availables since certainly a very long time.

When i was younger ... 45 years ago the size of batteries was the same than todays ones. I will check with an electrician next week end and let you know if something is possible.... 

Daniel

with a little searching ...

http://www.piles-et-plus.fr/3lr12

for a 3LR12 4.5V Pile @ 6^{€07 (euros?)} ...  "Piles & Plus"... Fr version of Batteries-R-Us?

i suppose this battery is on the large size... 67mm x 62mm x 22mm.

thanks...gary

I think this might be the correct one:

http://www.pilesbatteries.com/....5V-4-PB01105-p.html 45 x 55 x 15 mm

Regards

Fred

The battery tender used in the AF Empire Express set required a type F4 battery which I have yet to find.

The Wyandotte WR970 and 2000 locos (and Plastimarx versions) had a battery headlight as well. the battery was upright in the front of the engine.

Jim O'C posted:

The battery tender used in the AF Empire Express set required a type F4 battery which I have yet to find.

nice!  i've never seen a Type II tender with the battery holder.  i'm pretty sure the Type VII tenders held a C cell...

one of these days i've got to remember to buy a few C cell batteries when i'm in a store that actually sells C cell batteries just to see.  this is a Limited and solid red version battery tenders, ca. 1934.

cheers...gary

Jim O'C posted:

The Wyandotte WR970 and 2000 locos (and Plastimarx versions) had a battery headlight as well. the battery was upright in the front of the engine.

¡Viva Hafner!
(¿turn your tender around?)

aclamaciones...gáry

another one i had forgotten about...

the Hoge No. 500, an all metal finish, 2-unit train, holds a good old D cell toward the rear of the power unit to light up the single headlight.  not sure if the TL-3 bulb (#222) was original, but that's the way i got it.  i've never given it a chance to stretch its legs, but the spring in this motor is the largest i've ever seen in a toy train.

cheers...gary

overlandflyer posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Marx did make some with the headlight. Some prewar Vanderbilts had them as well as the the later large 933.

Steve

ok, i forgot about the CV, but i thought that was also a case of planned, but never implemented.  i did forget about the later locomotives with the push/ pull stack switches... probably because i don't have any.    thanks for the correction!

cheers...gary

Gary, the 933 is the large loco based on a 994 shell. Like a CV, the battery was crosswise in the front and a knurled screw on the front side was used to activate the light. The 591 variant is the one with the vertical positioned battery. I'll dig out my 933 and photo it when I get a chance. Here is a 591.

Steve

Here's the 933.

Steve

Looking through reprints of old BING catalogues I found that BING introduced electric light in a clockwork locomotive in 1909 which they called a "Reizende Neuheit" (Lovely novelty). The battery was a so called "Lagerelement" which before use had to be moistend with water; I assume a "Lagerelement" was a kind of forerunner of  later batteries.

It is not present in any following catalogue I looked at; the 1931 BING catalogue brought a re-introduction of lighted clockwork locomotives using normal flashlight batteries.

On a German forum I further found mentioning of a Kraus-Fandor locomotive with battery light and also the Czech company Husch made this type of locomotives. So quite a list until now!

Regards

Fred