Control Lionel conventional via DCS remote and TPC?

Don,

can I use my DCS remote to control conventional trains via a 15-amp capacity Lionel TCP 300, so I can enjoy the advantages of the Lionel TPC/Powermaster waveform with those three open frame motors and still use that one DCS remote?

Before you invest in a TPC, see how well you can operate your conventional postwar engines using DCS's Variable Channels. It's all explained, in detail, in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

I use the TIU to run conventional stuff.  It doesn't offer the granularity that the TPC will offer, but it works.

Barry,

I already have two TPC 300s and both Lionel and MTH command components.  No new investment needed.  Full wave AC does not offer smooth starts for the prewar motors in my Pride Lines COD.  Will the DCS remote via a TMCC link cable and all the same hardware as for using DCS with TMCC, also allow me to control conventional output from the TPC?  If not, or regardless as clarification, what advantage does a variable TIU channel offer compared with straight fullwave AC for such motors?

Thanks, Don

Don,

In your initial post you stated:

"Lionel Powermaster or TPC in conventional mode puts out a "chopped" waveform with the high and low ends of the sine wave chopped off, and open frame motors (Pullmor or prewar either one) respond better to that waveform at low speeds."

I merely noted that the Variable channels chop the sine wave in the same manner as does the TPC, and suggested that you operate your engines using the Variable channels to determine if that would do it for you. If so, you could then use the TR screen on the DCS Remote to control your postwar engines.

The only issue with the TIU control is it's in .5V steps and starts at 5V.  It would be nice to be able to reduce the size of the steps.

I know about reducing the input voltage, but for many AC motored locomotives pulling some cars, that's not a real good idea, you need the voltage.

To the best of my knowledge a TPC can not be controlled via a DCS handheld.

Since you can program the TPC as either a TR or ENG, why can't you use ENG and address it from the DCS remote?  I haven't tried it yet, but it seems possible.  Obviously, this assumes you have the TPC correctly installed and connected to a TMCC or Legacy base via the serial cable.

Why not just first try using the Variable channels before you complicate things and waste an engine slot or two? If you're not happy with the results, then pursue the TPC approach.

Just because you have the TPC doesn't mean you have to use it.

Thanks fellows, all of you.  Helpful comments.  When I've had a chance to try the options will post whatever I learn.

Don

Hi guys,

Don, I gree with Barry that it's worth trying the TIU variable channel first.  If the performance with your City of Denver is acceptable on the variable channel I would go with it.  The user interface on the DCS remote will be much more straight forward.

If the performance on the variable channel is not satisfactory you can indeed program a TPC.  As John suggested, the TPC must be programmed as an engine.  You can then add it to the DCS remote as a TMCC engine.  You need to set the DCS remote to "REL" speed steps.  You won't get a readout for voltage or speed steps (you will with the variable channel) but you will have full 200 step voltage range on the TPC.

To connect both the TIU and the TPC to the TMCC command base you will need to make your own break-out adapter that provides pass-through to the DCS/TMCC cable and has separate DAT and COM wires.

I have my TIU hooked up to a AIU. Can I take those wires off the AIU and use them to connect the TIU to the Lionel Command Base? Do I need more wires? The TPC is already connected to the Command Base.

I would then set the TPC too 200 speed steps. I assume I would have Whistle/Bell and Direction control. Can I switch the TPC to command mode via the handheld?

I have a TPC feeding power to a fixed channel on my TIU because the variable channels are used for something else.

Anyone know the code on a TMCC handheld to switch the TPC from conventinal to command and change the speed step setting. I think it has something to do with the 3 buttons under the cover on the bottom.

I haven't done this but have had an early  TPC(IC controls) but think this is how it would go.

You need the MTH cable that goes from the TIU to the Lionel command base, not to an AIU. The dcs remote talks to the Lionel command base via the special cable, the command base talks to the TPC.  The cab-1 also talks to the Lionel base so you can use the dcs remote or cab-1.

Yes under the Cab-1 cover there's 3 buttons L...M....H . I forget which one does what to the TPC..one  sets it to command. other to conventional and I believe the other one set the max voltage. Anyway Hope this helps abit,

DO NOT try to connect the TIU and Command base using any wires related to the AIU.  That is a totally different connection.

Yes you do need more wires.  Right now you probably use Lionel's cable to connect the Command Base to the TPC.  The red wire on this cable is the "DAT" (data transmit) wire, the green wire is the "COM" (common), and the black wire is the data receive wire used with the ARC.

The problem is you need to use the same serial port on the command base to connect the TIU/TMCC cable.  You essentially need 2 serial port connections at the Command base.  You can accomplish this with either a breakout adapter (mentioned earlier) or a serial Y-cable such as this one: 1M/2F serial Y-Cable.

Yes, you can switch between conventional and command modes.  As Gregg alluded, the "L" button sets the TPC to command mode, the "M" to conventional mode, and the "H" sets the max voltage in conventional mode.  The DCS remote has had access to these functions since the release of v4.00.  Pressing the LOW, MID, or HI, on the DCS remote also sends the "SET" command.

Thank you for the information.  

To Dave Hikel,

Dave, above you stated for using DCS remote with a TPC, "To connect both the TIU and the TPC to the TMCC command base you will need to make your own break-out adapter that provides pass-through to the DCS/TMCC cable and has separate DAT and COM wires."

Will the "9 Pin Serial Splitter Cable DB9 1M / 2F RS232" (that's the item in the Amazon.com link mentioned above) work here also?  Is there need for separate DAT and COM wires then, when using the splitter cable?

Feel like I know just enough to be dangerous here, so forgive naive questions!

By the way, the C&NW passenger terminal is taking shape on the level above the initial work you did a few years ago for me.  Those Atlas switches have been a challenge, but I believe we have them anchored, re-jumpered, etc. as you advised me.  Almost ready for testing trains through those puzzle switches...

Thanks, Don

Hi Don,

Yes, the Y-cable will substitute for any home made breakout adapter IF you also have the Lionel cable shown above.  You still need the Lionel cable to connect the correct serial pins to the TPC's "DAT" and "COM" terminals.

A little confused. I thought the cable between the Command Base and TPC will stay as is. I would connect a MTH product per Greggs post to connect the Command Base to the TIU. I would use the splitter from Amazon if I still connect the AIU to the serial port as both wires need the same port.

No Jim,  the AIU's never connect to the serial ports on any device.  The AIU's plug into their own port (RJ-25 telephone type plug) on the TIU.  To run a TPC with DCS you need....

1) MTH #50-1032 cable

2) Serial Y-cable

3) Lionel #6-14192 cable

Start with the MTH cable.  One end is labeled "TIU."  Connect that to the TIU's serial port.  The other end is labeled "Legacy."  Connect that to one of the female ends of the Y-cable. Connect the male end of the Y-cable to the Lionel Command Base (either TMCC or Legacy).  Connect the other female end of the Y-cable to the serial end of the Lionel cable.  Connect the red wire on the Lionel cable to the "DAT" terminal on the TPC.  Connect the green wire on the Lionel cable to the "COM" terminal on the TPC.  That's it.  Hope it helps.

Dave, I thought your picture from the other thread was great, and describes it perfectly.

Dave,

If someone is connecting legacy and dcs using this method with a TPC, can you still use both remotes to control trains? Is there anything special one has to do to get this to work? I have seen your diagram and it makes since, but not sure if there is anything else that is required.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Chris,

can you still use both remotes to control trains?

Yes, you can.

 Is there anything special one has to do to get this to work?

No, there is not.

Barry,

Thanks for your quick response.

Chris