Different Shims for Different Cars

Mario,

Yes I have noticed that too when mounting Kadee couplers & in extreme cases where the shim thickness would be excessive you could be forced to use those Kadee 742 Overset couplers in combination with the Micro-Mark Kadee shims. I faced this situation when I was trying to convert a K-Line 21” passenger car to 2-rail.

At the other extreme, I had to use the Kadee 747 Underset couplers on the Lionel Husky cars to get to the correct coupler height since the cars rode so low.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

That's great information!

 

I'd love to see install photos to see how you did those, especially the husky stack cars.

 

Thanks,

- Mario

Mario,

The thread where I documented the conversion was accidently deleted along with some other posts like the Intermodal Primer, last year. Here is another post that has some images of the converted cars. I will search for the old photos on my PC & post some of the steps later.

https://ogrforum.com/t...48#35499619164949648 

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

 

I've had cars that required 1/4" shims, but usually you'll find you can use a thinner shim if you replace the trucks with a different makers truck.  Problem is you can't always know if a truck will need replacing or how thick the shim should be until you start taking the car apart.

 

Shims, underframe, and body heights are all over the place.  One maker will copy anothers efforts, right down to the same car number on a model, yet some of the things that would make these toys look better are all over the place.

 

One thing that hurts us in 3-rail is the oversize wheel flanges and resulting tread diameter, you have to leave room under the car for the flange to clear things.  If a car is made for 2 and 3-rail (like Atlas) then it will sit higher/lower, depending on the type of trucks used (2 or 3-rail).

 

It's called "STANDARDS", something we'll never see in O scale in my lifetime

Agreed...

 

All over the place is right... the steel reefers are .160" thick, the Atlas' are in 0.040", 0.080" and 0.120", the PS-1 (again, my fave!) are 0.120"...

That is why I have a large supply of Evergreen styrene in .500 wide and various thickness from .040" thru .120".

I refuse to use under set and over set Kadees because real couplers don't look like that. The main reason for swapping to Kadees in the 1st place is for looks, so why not just use a spacer and the center set coupler. Those off set couplers just look goofy to me.

I agree. I had one car that I simply could not get the coupler height correct on only one end, so I tried one of those "offset" head couplers. Ddin't like it at all. I'll go back and re-fix the darned car, and take that off.

Some of the cars I have (MTH I think) had fairly large dimple "bolsters" on the bottom side of the sheet metal floor.  Turning these upside down so the dimples are on the inside significantly lowers the car, then you have a big dished area to cover.

 

I covered mine with squares of .030 aluminum painted black, used the 2 mounting screws at each end of the car to hold them (and the floor) in place, and tapped the aluminum for the Kadees couplers.

 

I knew I had a photo or 2:

 

 

You know what I could use Mario? Kadee adapters for 3 rail Atlas H21 hoppers! I don't think I've ever seen them converted come to think of it.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, this is cool.

Just finished the install on the Atlas cars, and Norm would something like this do? See attached photos.

There's a 20 minute install video where I do these cars. Look for it soon, I took it tonight but still need to edit it.

Thanks,
Mario

Hi Mario, here's what's going on with the H21 hopper:

 

 Looks like a roughly 1/16" gap..

 

 

Thx Dave, I wonder if the 3 rail trucks put the frame a little higher.

I did a few of those 3R cars for someone awhile back. It took 2 of the MicroMark shims which are .025" each.. so .050 total to get the height correct. I do believe the 3R trucks/wheels make the car sit a tad higher than the 2R version.

 

Mario, because of the lack of width on the frame, you will have to use the center moutning holes. They just need to be moved back so the draft gear box is flush with the end of the car, like Dave has shown. 

Unless they've recently changed, Atlas uses the same trucks for two and three rail, and only the wheels are different. I think one reason shims are needed when installing Kadees on Atlas cars is the considerable difference in Atlas's draft gear box (factory-installed on two-rail models) and Kadee's. The Atlas box is a lot thicker on top where it mounts to the car, and Atlas presumably designs for this. Put a Kadee, with its much thinner draft gear box lid, on the same car, and you are more likely to need to shim to bring the coupler to NMRA height.

 

RM

I'm on it. 

What took you so long?

Mario,

 

I'm so glad you are doing this!

 

Dave

 

Just my opinion, after putting kadees on Atlas. All cars so far sit way to high and no difference between 2rail and three rail trucks. I usually change trucks to one that sits lower, like Weaver or Athern. Then may still use thin shim. I go by photos of real cars.

 

Clem k

All great stuff! Thanks guys.

Anyone know if the war emergency hoppers have the same under frame? I do have those.

Thanks,
Mario