German O Gauge Question

Hi Timbo,

Besides Lenz, Brawa und MBW make some very nice pieces. They are designed for two rail operation, which is what I do with mine. Beautiful models at a good price, especially with our strong dollar and lots of German dealers will send to the US. 

Couplers are either the standard Lenz type or the realistic link type, harder to work but They loom great.

As per replacement wheelsets, that is the one I cannot answer but I am sure someone has done it, should not be too hard.

All the best, Miketg

The trackwidth will not be a problem; I tried the Brawa freight car on Lionel track and it goes well. However I assume that with switches/turn-outs there will be a problem. Since I run all makes of trains I just did not put any switches/turn-outs in my layout. See also the next videos showing Brawa and Lionel running on the same track in the garden:

Regards

Fred

GO FOR IT , zumindest werden Sie ein paar schöne Autos auf oder sehen genauso veröffentlichen sie auf EBAY

Hi all,

I operate both Lionel/MTH etc. and European stuff on my 3-rail layout. European stuff is converted concerning the wheelsets to 3-rail operation from NEM-Standard.

My experience:

- NEM wheelsets can be operated on Fastrack, Atlas 0 and Gargraves,

- NEM wheelsets will fail on the switches of Lionel and Atlas at different Locations

- NEM wheelsets can be operated sometimes on Ross Switches.

For explanation of the different wheelsets in use I refer to IMG_5819

"1" is a NEM-wheelset once sold from Rivarossi with a distance between the wheels

     of 28.4 mm

"2" is a taylormade wheelset for conversion to 3-rail operation with a distance between

     the wheels of 27 mm regarding the distance of the guardrails at the frog of the

     Lionel/Atlas 0 switches

"3" is a taylormade wheelset for conversion of a brass US scale car to 3 rail operation

     that fits in beween the truck sideframes

Recently offered European cars for 2 rail operation have wheelsets closer to FS(finescale) standard.

For comparison the distances of an NMRA wheelset.

In IMG5820 you can see how the NEM wheelset fails already at the beginning of the switch rail in a Lionel turnout. 

In IMG 5821 a NEM wheelset passes thru the Atlas 0 turnout at the beginning of the switch rail,

however in IMG 5822 it fails at the frog , because the guard rail location  is oriented to the meterings of 3 rail operation.

So, if you want to operate European cars (and engines) with wheel standards based on NEM or FS on layouts with switches for 3 rail operation, conversion of the wheelsets is necessary.

European vehicles from MTH offered for 3 rail operation have already the apprpriate wheels

Regards

Albrecht

Germany

Fred,

What a great outdoor layout!  You have given me ideas.  And I love that you have that cement car that I featured in my original post.

Thanks for the great videos!

And Steve, my German is a bit rusty.  But if I am reading your post correctly, you are offering to donate all of your German freight cars to me? 

- timbo

Wow, this is amazing information!  Thank you for the detailed response.  Very helpful.

So if I am reading this right, I need to pursue Tailor-made wheelsets? I wonder if MTH sells their wheelsets separately? I'll have to do some digging.

Thanks again.  Detailed responses like this are why this forum is great!

timbo

Timbo,

before you start to order MTH wheelsets for conversion, have a look at applied standards for wheel diamenters and axle shape. I assume, These are different.

Finally, a picture of the MTH Br44 with a unit coal train( cars are from the 1970ies)on my layout

Regards

Albrecht

 ---

In 5820 above, it looks like the NEM wheelset actually split the switch. It doesn't look at all like it attempted to take the diverging route. Is this what happened, and would it behave any differently with the weight of a car atop it?

Not that I'm planning on doing anything like this, just curious. 

---PCJ

Albrecht

Incidentally, what coupler situation did you decide to go with in this MTH BR44 scenario?

timbo

PCJ,

the wheelset fails, because the wheel flange is too small(look at the dimensions in the first picture) and the switch rail is at the touching point just below the flange. Adding weight would not help.

Just an assumption: maybe the change of the flange angle could help, but I did not test that, as that would require anyway production of a new wheel.

Regards

Albrecht

Incidentally, what coupler situation did you decide to go with in this MTH BR44 scenario?

Timbo,

this MTH Br44 has the nuckle coupler, applied with all US 3 rail products. The first car in this train has a dummy nuckle, all other ones are coupled with coupler rods(it´s unit train).

To operate European trains, I have created some intermediate cars with a dummy knuckle coupler at one end.

Regards

Albrecht

So, the Lionel switch points are lower than the railhead at the critical point needed to engage a NEM wheelset. Fair enough--FasTrack switches were made for tubular-compatible wheelsets anyway.

As for the Atlas switch that derails the NEM wheelset at the frog, is there any room for a "compromise" shim on the inner face of the guard rail that would pull a NEM wheelset flange away from the "wrong" flangeway of the frog, without disrupting the passage of regular 3-rail wheelsets?

On a related note, I've noticed that heavy trains often overcome the natural tendency of the wheel flanges to ride outward on a curve, and all flanges (at least in the forward part of the train) are pulled up against the inner railhead, contrary to what happens with a single wheelset (or in real life). Could NEM wheelsets behave in a similar manner passing through an Atlas frog as part of a (heavy) train? Not suggesting that this is anything someone could/should rely upon--it's more idle speculation than anything else.

---PCJ

Timbo:

My suggestion would be to start with an MTH 2 rail 2 axle freight car -- say, a Swiss Epoch III van ] and see what is necessary for your track and [ especially ]  turnouts to accomodate 2 rail scale wheels.  It might be easier to modify your turnouts slightly -- but still retain hirail capability -- than change the wheelsets of the imported vehicles.

But I also should warn you:  Once you get one of those Brawa cars like the one you have illustrated -- it is a superb model --  you may just go completely over to 2 rail. Consider yourself warned !

With best regards, SZ

As for the Atlas switch that derails the NEM wheelset at the frog, is there any room for a "compromise" shim on the inner face of the guard rail that would pull a NEM wheelset flange away from the "wrong" flangeway of the frog, without disrupting the passage of regular 3-rail wheelsets?

PCJ,

indeed, there is room for a "compromise" shim on the inner face of the guard rail. That would help to overcome the difficulty at the frog for the NEM or even FS(fine scale) wheelset

Regards

Albrecht