Grade Crossing with gates and flashers advice

O Gauge Guy posted:

... I read an old thread that talked about joining Lionel tubular O gauge track to FasTrack using transitions pieces 6-12040. I guess this would require some adjustment to the height of the tubular track...

They are essentially the same height.

Here' the 6-12062 in action. Included are two 5" insulated track sections, so the total length is 20". Add to that two FasTrack to tubular transition pieces. Has a switch to turn off bell. On a short run loop, does get a little annoying. Anyway, this video may help you decide. TW

Thanks for the video. I really appreciate being able to see it in action. I like it! It looks good and you don't have to worry about individual components moving out of location in a temporary layout.

I guess if you want the boom gates to activate earlier, it's just a case of adding more insulated track before the crossing? I read the manual online and it says "If you would like your trains to activate the accessory earlier or to prolong the operation of the accessory, you may choose to purchase Insulated Track sections (6-12027)." I suppose it would be challenging for this extra insulated section to be made out of tubular track?

Insulated tubular track isn't real difficult. Here's a way to do it. insulated track. Or you can buy a piece or two. 

Thanks again TEDW. I'm pretty clear on making insulated tubular track sections. I was wondering if I had insulated tubular track each side of the crossing whether it then required a small section of isolating FasTrack on the outside of that? Couldn't quite imagine it from the diagram in the manual and I didn't want to be converting to and from FasTrack more than once.

In the diagram below, are the isolated FasTrack sections with the break part of the actual crossing or separate pieces joined to it?

Two pieces. 

Thanks for this photo TEDW. That helps. I can see the breaks in the outside rail closest to the camera. So if I didn't use these outside pieces and substituted FasTrack transition pieces to minimise the amount of FasTrack, I could then attach insulated tubular track as far away from the crossing as I wanted to achieve earlier and prolonged activation.

I have been pondering your project. Using an approach that takes individual parts would create a lot of work and would not have the bell. There are other parts and systems available, the link is just one. It would also complicate the temporary setup requirement.

So, let's stay with this Lionel crossing.

Let's remove the 5" pieces, like you are thinking. next problem - how to join the pins of tubular to FasTrack without the transition piece. This is not a tough project.

When you access the underside of the crossing section, you'll see tabs holding the rails on - like all FasTrack. Bend those straight and the rail can be lifted up. This permits removal of the joiner pins. Then, push/ hold the rails down and rebend the pins. example here

The next step is to use a 7/64" drill bit. Align it to the inside top of the rail and clean out the plastic in the end about 3/16" inch deep. Mark the bit with tape.

(See attached document from LCCA Modular specs appendix, steps 4 & 5)

Now you can insert an O gauge pin into the FasTrack crossing section.

Next use the insulated O rail tubular track and create the approach/trigger tracks of the desired length.

Now, there should be only the grade crossing section in FasTrack that is triggered by an O tubular rail in a compact package for temporary setups.

Moonman posted:

So, let's stay with this Lionel part. The 5" sections are the Lionel 6-12060 Block sections. There are removable jumper wires for each rail. 

Carl, I might be quibbiling here, but the 5" sections on the crossing aren't the 6-12060. They have no jumper and no part number. Just says "5" isolator". Barely readable on the left side of picture.  Your process should work the same however. 

Thanks, ted. So, it's a specialized piece for the crossing trigger. he won't be using them anyway.

edited the post.

Carl, now that I have climbed down off my high horse, I have modified and placed a 5" FT section and curve section in place of the isolator section and get no results. The crossing only triggers when it hits the crossing itself.  Put the isolator section back in and it works per normal. Neither of my modified pieces extend the trigger of the crossing.  I must be doing something wrong here. 

TED,

The approach with all FasTrack is a little different when you want to extend the trigger area.

It is between the two cut rails in the factory arrangement. Notice there are no groundstraps connecting the outside rails on the bottom of the 5" isolator piece.

The technique is to lengthen the space between the main crossing piece and the 2 1/2" to the cut in the rail.

Remove the groundstraps from the pieces that you want to use as extenders. Don't remove all of the pins. This is the same as putting the paper under one outside rail of tubular track. This requires straightening the tabs, removing it and rebending  the tabs.

Then, on the last piece of the extension, farthest from the main gate piece, you remove the pin from the outside rail only, cut the outside rail or put the 5" isolator as the first straight. This creates the longer trigger rail section connected by the wheels.

Now, the trigger will happen farther from the gates.

Capice?

Capisce!  Put two pins back in works fine. Had removed pin n cut outside rail on corner. Brain fart, trying to remove too much.  Thx again. 

To: Carl,  Arctic Railroad

I must be having more than one brain fart!~

Please take a look at my posted question about extending the trigger zone over a Fastrack 90 degree crossover.  Heck I even removed the crossover and tried it without the crossover.  Still could not extend my trigger zone.  Only the section before the grade crossing with flashers activated anything.  I thought I had extended the trigger zone. 

This is the order of my efforts: 

curve, curve, 90 degree Fastrack crossover, 10 inch straight FastracK, Fastrack grade crossing with flasher.  (The other end of the crossing does not need to be extended so I am working on extending only the "south side" of the crossing.)

The same rail was isolated on all sections of track.  The pins of the isolated rail were removed from all sections of track.  On the underside the crossover plates connecting both outer rails was also removed on all sections of track.

I once read that the isolated rail needed to be filed down a bit so as not to tough the adjoining rail.  Do you agree? 

The 10 inch straight track immediately adjacent to the crossing track activates the signal ---but that's it.  The other tracks even with an isolated rail do nothing to trigger.

This is a new layout and a totally new experience with Fastrack for me.  I grew up in the 1950's and was totally a O gauge tubular track guy.  

I have been trying to solve this problem for three days --and it is really holding up the completion of this layout.  I rally need your help and advice.

I would think it wouldn't be a bad idea to isolate the isolated rail from the adjoining piece of normal trackage. Filing it down to let there be an air gap on the end would work to that end as well is using a dremel or similar tool to cut a slot further in allowing use of a normal pin to be preserved.

bmoran4,  thanks. 

Since my furtherest track from the crossing will be a curve I cannot use a straight 5" isolator track or any straight track.  If I remove the pin from that curved track that is furtherest from the crossing do I still have to cut the rail?  Carl of Arctic Railroad says to another member, "cut the outside rail or put the 5" isolator as the first straight." I am not sure what he means by "cut the outside rail." (In my opinion I made all the tracks isolated so I do not even need to use the 5" isolator track.)

I did remove all the pins from the isolated rail on all pieces of Fastrack in the "trigger zone."  Maybe I should only do that on the piece of track furtherest from the crossing in the "trigger zone."

Maybe my curved track, minus pins, is still touching adjoining pieces of track??? And that is my problem. And I need to file the end of the isolated rail (only on the section of track furtherest from the crossing) to make sure "contact" is not being made.

Wizzer 

You can make your own fastrack isolated sections on curve tracks just the same as straight tracks by removing grounding straps on the underside.

Some videos on the subject:

You keep all your pins on all the rails within the isolated block, but you do need to isolate the isolated rail at the transition to normal track on each end. This is done by ensuring that an isolator (such as an air gap) keeps the isolated rail form touching the normal track rail. This may be accomplished by removing the pin or by cutting a slot through the entire isolated rail as described above. Sometimes removing the pin isn't enough and you can get stray contact.

Also, looking above, it seems that there is confusion about the 5" track sections (that you can't always use as you point out).

http://www.lionel.com/products...ivator-pack-6-12029/ - used for activating accessories like this scenario.

http://www.lionel.com/products...ock-section-6-12060/ - what you don't need in this scenario. This is for creating track power blocks/districts.

They are easy to get confused.

Not to muddy the waters, but the Z-Stuff crossing gate kit comes with two gates and two remote IR sensors and eliminates the need for any track modifications. It's easy to set-up and is a very well constructed and a good looking kit. It also has an adjustable delay. I was even able to put the bell on a switch so I can turn it off if it starts to get too annoying.

I only used one at this location on the layout and buried the base in the layout, but you don't need to do that. The IR sensor (looks like a low track signal) is a couple of feet off camera.

It doesn't have the grade crossings, but those can be purchased separately.

Thanks to all.

bmoran, I did replace the pins I had removed.  But I think I am still having a problem "going through" the Fastrack 90 degree crossover. For one I discovered that if you remove both cross over plates on the backside of the crossover you might be creating a total dead spot in the line.   But I have to use the 90 degree crossover and need it as part of the "trigger zone."

So are you saying that all pins, including those in the grade crossing with flashers should be left in and that the ONLY pin that needs to be removed is the one in the furtherest isolated track piece?

I will work on this and get back to you ASAP

I think the 90 degree crossover IS the problem and it is acting like a block and cuts off power to the engine.  Either stops it totally or reverses it or kills it totally.

I had removed both of the outer rail connecting plates from the underside of the 90 degree crossover.  As I see it that is the only way to truly isolate even one line going thru the crossover--the one line I need to have isolated to increase the length of my "trigger zone."

If I am going to keep the 90 degree crossover I guess I will just have to accept an isolated zone that is way too small and looks stupid.  I have another grade crossing that does not have anything that's activated on it.  I might have to use that and box up the flasher.

Now I know that the 90 degree crossover is the problem. I substituted a piece of 10 inch Fastrack, with an isolated rail, for the cross over and all works fine.

SO, I am back to my original question.  Can you or How do you insulate a rail on a Fastrack 90 degree crossover?  Even if you take out the underside plates that connect the outer rails power still goes to the "insulated" rail from the crossover track going in the 90 degree direction from this insulated track.

The outside rail is actually only split about half way and then is bent in a 90 degree "L" shaped angle.  So power is being directed in two directions from that one side rail itself.  IF I was to remove that "L" shaped outer track and cut it all the way through would I then be creating a dead stop?  OR would that be the solution?

I have another 90 degree crossover so I am willing to "experiment" if anyone knows if this is a workable solution.

There would still be power to one outer track and to the center rail of the 90 degree crossover.

Or should I go to bed?

See the reply here where you were instructed to cut the rails at the corners: https://ogrforum.com/...6#149239177544217386

It won't directly create a dead spot because the rails will still get power through the pins of connected track where necessary (however, there are some configurations where if all track paths must go through the 90, additional power taps will be needed, but don't see that as a bad thing - it is best practice to have multiple power taps to the track on a layout)