HELP DAVE OLSON WITH PROGRAMMING THE ACELA SET PLEASE.

It’s best to tag him in the post. @Dave Olson

Hope Dave is able to provide clarification, I’d be interested in learning for my set as well.

not sure how keith I have never done it.

Roger, my honest impression is that it's working just as intended.

In order to get the special sound coming from the end in forward is handled by the firmware of the engine. Thus to get that function, they must be programmed as one ID letting the engine firmware communicate and handle which engine the sounds come out of. When you force 2 IDs and use the train link function of the CAB2, it is not a dynamic configuration as the remote is commanding the engines no longer allowing the firmware to make that sound decision.

So, the solution is, program the engines as ONE ID, the diner as another ID, and then train link the 2 different IDs.

That way, the train works as intended and the engines play the sound out of the lead engine based on direction. Then, because it is a train with an added diner, then it works as you are asking about.

The manual for the Diner car from the expansion pack states this. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Expansion%20Pack.pdf

page 8-9 cover building the train- notice there is ONLY one engine ID- giant hint.

Page 10 covers using trainlink to switch back and forth between the engine(s) and the diner car for what you are controlling.

Full disclosure, I don't own the new Acela set, just the old one. That said, I do use my Legacy 990 set quite often and have a fair understanding of the Legacy command structure, firmware actions, and so forth.

What I'm seeing between the 2 thread topics here.

The manual more or less directly states what I said- program the engines as one ID, the Diner as another, and Trainlink them using then the Trainlink button to fast switch between what the remote is displaying and you are commanding (engine controls VS diner sound controls).

In @Bruce Brown's thread  https://ogrforum.com/...c/162475945267053380

Regarding the engine programming:

• With top hatch cover off, it is critical to set engine as a pair, not a unit, using the same engine ID for both engines. Lionel Support now recommends this approach even though it differs from the manual included in the set.

Regarding the Diner programming:

• Do not attempt to add as a LASHUP or assign a TR number.
• Do not attempt to use TRAINLINK.
• During operation, go to ENG and type in ID number. Rotate speed control to bring up sound options. The Bistro Car sounds will then be controllable,
• To switch control between Acela Engines and Bistro Car, simply double-click the ENG button.

My take is the functional difference is that if you use Trainlink to link the diner, then you single tap that button to switch what is controlled.

If you don't do Trainlink, then because you recently accessed both the engine and the diner car IDs in the CAB2, then double tapping ENG button switches between the 2 as a function of just how the CAB2 works.

What I didn't see, was there a specific problem when using Trainlink  as the diner manual states with the engines programmed as one ID, and the diner as another ID? Again, what was the logic or reasoning in Bruce's post that made him say do not use Trainlink for the Diner to the single engine ID?

Last, again, it seems very clear to me, the best mode for the engines is run as a pair letting the engine firmware do the heavy lifting, and only 1 ID specifically for the engines. That makes sense because if you use LASHUP or TRAINLINK with other normal diesels not sold as a set or pair, only one typically should be making the warning signals (horn, bell, announcements) and the other(s) just prime mover sounds.

vernon I follow what you are saying and agree 100 percent. I thought the way you described would work,but it did not. I cant recall now what happened it was late and I had tryed multiple ways after trying the way you stated. I have to wait to get off work to try theme again.

full disclosure I was using a tmcc sounds dinner car to test this out as my add on set has not arrived yet. I thought that the car would be ok maybe its the car giving me the issues here.

like I said I will try this and this time I will document what happens. thanks for the reply and good advice. you like me are thinking the same way. I just could not get it to work somehow as you and the manual described.

vernon, got off work early. I tryed it this way as you and the manual sugessted.

step 1 programed both engines to the same ID# both set to paired.

engines functioned as they should. sounds playing appropriately with direction changes.

then went to train builder. added the engine first then the station sounds dinner car I have. then hit set to make the train.

now running the train goes as this.... both engines go in opposite directions of each other regardless of direction changes. head lights are both red in reverse and white in forward.

when in forward the sounds come from the lead engine. when in reverse sounds come from the rear engine.

when train link is pressed the station sounds car works as it should. when pressed again it goes back to the engines as it should.

engines still doing the same thing. no change at all there. still run in opposite directions.

now when I go back to the engine softkey to run the locomotives they act just like in the train builder. running in opposite directions and all.

now when I go back to the train builder and delete the train. then go back to the engine softkey and run the engines. they behave as normal again.

I tryed one more thing also. I started over in the train builder. I only added the engine and left out the station sounds car. so to be clear the only thing in the train was the paired engines.

they still went in opposite directions as before and sounds as before. removing the car made no difference.

seems I have maybe something in the firmware programming messed up maybe not sure, what are your thoughts here?

I'd have to look and see if we could diagnose with Legacy System Utility and monitor the exact commands sent. I don't even know if that would tell us at a technical level what is going on, but maybe a shot in the dark. https://www.lionelsupport.com/legacy-control-software

The engine side of this isn't making sense to me, but since I don't have one, I cannot test or validate.

Again, what I don't understand is the behavior change just because you hit train builder. But maybe this is leftover from your previous tests and like you said, the engines need reset. In other words, the engines still remember the lashup.

Hopefully @Dave Olson can help.

I was just thinking, the nearest thing I could test with, I have the Army Sharknose set. That is 2 independent engines meant to run as a pair back to back not unlike the Acela. Then I I don't have a legacy diner car, but I do have the legacy freight sounds cars.

I'll try to make a train and see what happens. They too use the LCP2 boards found in your Acela, so on a basic hardware level this should be somewhat similar and all recent release Lionel Legacy.

The TrainLink button only works in TR mode, not when you're controlling engines separately.

The point-to-point operation used in the Acela is the same as the F40PH/Cabbage and the LIRR Cab car we did. The dialog/horn/bell will only switch units when the units are programmed as the same TMCC ID and not operated in a train. Plus the switches need to be set to "pair" and not "unit".

In TRAIN mode, the engine code will ignore the position of the "unit/pair" switch, and program the engines as standard Legacy engines, with the dialog/signals playing from the assigned unit, which by default is the front unit leading the train.

I recommend running the engines as the same ID, and switching to the Bistro car using its unique TMCC ID; not using the TrainLink button. It's an extra button press, I know. But the functionality you get is worth it to me.

Well, right, wrong, or indifferent, I just got basically the same result using 2133280 Legacy Army Sharknose set and Lionel 2126390 Missouri Pacific #41260 Vision Boxcar.

The engines were programmed using a single ID and ran fine in the correct direction. I followed the basic instructions from the above linked manual for the Acela expansion pack diner car.

Basically this

The result was that the engines tha dd work together before building the train now fight each other in opposite directions.

So then I just now cleared that TR train ID and now under the original address the engines both work together.

Note my CAB2 is running 1.70 and base is 1.60

Update, so I could build a train, properly set each engine with different IDs, then build a train after sorting directions ensuring the second A was reversed and then adding the freight sounds boxcar.

But he problem is apples to oranges. The Acela, you want the mode of single ID so that the sounds work correctly with directional control. And it appears building the train does something that somehow, even though the engines are the same single ID, now they work differently and incorrect direction.

So yes, in my own way, I could duplicate the problem you are seeing, but since my engine pair only one has sound, I don't replicate the sound issue, but I see in the motion control what happens.

Sorry, I know not the answer we wanted, but again, at least I can see exactly what you mean in behavior change.

well there you have it, thanks dave for the clarification. no more pulling my hair out and racking my brain to jelly.

dave or vernon does my remote need to be on the latest software version? its one version behind.

vernon thanks for using the engines you had. kinda glad you got the same results as I did. now I know now at least I was adding the engines in right.

still not crazy aout not being able to use the train link feature. oh well it is what it is. thanks again vernon and thanks again dave for clearing up how to set up this set. I thought I was doing something wrong. turns out I was not.

@Dave Olson posted:

I recommend running the engines as the same ID, and switching to the Bistro car using its unique TMCC ID; not using the TrainLink button.

And this was our original recommendation at the top of the Acela Improving the Odds message thread! (Found by trial and error)