How Serious is MTH? Or even "Big L"?

Last word was the MTH S catalog was due out in summer sometime.  As far as Flyer, I think Circle L's gonna wait and see how the FlyerChief Polar Express and Berkshires do.

I myself, intend to keep on breathing.  Meanwhile, I've ordered a pair of RS11's from American Models.

It'll be interesting to see which shows up on my doorstep first, the RS11's or the looooong awaited MTH F3's...

Rusty

More than one post beating up on MTH for sending us catalogs.

MTH has brought out some nice freight cars from the MTH dies. Locomotives are next. They don't fully understand the market and are probably cautious.

Lionel was doing well, and then we got the "can't-use-this-out-of-the-box" cylindrical hoppers. Definitely had some internal communication failures there to release out of gauge scale wheels with AF couplers. And they choked on them, and now have retreated to what they know, 3 rail O.

It was an unprecedented era, and too much happened too fast, and now, a regrouping. 

I'm sure we'll see neat stuff from both of them. It just won't be next year. Give them time.  

quote:

How Serious is MTH? Or even "Big L"

Not very.

You should see how it's been in G gauge!

It can be frustrating waiting for new product. In G scale they have great running engines and are the best value made. I have a new Dash 8 on order for a long time. Seeing they run so well, I will wait.

When they dive into something, it's been great, once they get it going.

They probably just have not updated the R-T-R catalogs yet. I think that same page has been in there since I got back in the O gauge hobby in 2011. I do believe they said a new S catalog was in the works as others have said above.

I also think the dust is still settling from the big changes in Asian manufacturing plants everyone has had to make in the last few years, and some may still be making changes. This has slowed everything down.

One of life's great mysteries to me is why S scale is not more popular than it is? It seems to me to have the most going for it of any scale available. I guess I should talk here, selecting O gauge for myself just a few years ago. To be honest though, I actually like having 3 rails, selection was much better in O gauge, and it was so good in fact I still can't believe it. Maybe MTH and Lionel will pick up the pace with their S gauge lines soon?

Casey,

My posting was not complaining about receiving catalogs, I found the offerings inside quite interesting. What I am complaining about is the complete lack of any mention, let alone promotion, of their S gauge line. How do you expand a line and get new customers by only marketing to the current users? I've been in S too many years to want to admit to (nearly 60!) and We've always been "the little guy" but some of us are tired of being considered "second-class" when we are actually in the First Class Gauge!!

I've heard some say, "It's because of the China manufacture's shake out" but that was over three years ago, how hard is it to change the text on ONE page of a catalog??? Shows me that marketing just doesn't care, or doesn't get it.

Lionel has been offering the Polar Express for 10 years in various gauges.  The movie runs on TV a number of times each Christmas season.  It is a Christmas tradition like Frosty the Snowman now.  Look for Lionel to produce them in S for many years.  

There is no "down economy" any more so people need to let that die as a reason for anything.  We just need to buy what comes out that pleases us and not over expect from Lionel or MTH. If we except that I think we will be more happy with our hobby.

Companies that produce trains have to target the existing market because it gives them the best return on their investment in new tooling and other expenses.  I don't think we can expect them to broaden the market through advertising.  I think it is the people like us in S that have to get new people in our gauge.  

Thanks for the discussion.  

Here's a little model train economics:  While disappointed with the delays from the S manufacturers, I've been able to use that time to sock away 20 bucks a week for the things I do have on order.

The good news is everything has cash allocated for when they finally arrive sitting in a dusty envelope in an undisclosed location.  The bad news is I expect some unavoidable  lifestyle changes occurring in the next few years and will be less likely to be ordering much, if anything, from any new catalog, particularly big, honk'n technology-crammed, big-buck locomotives. 

I won't be destitute, but I'm growing more conservative lately about cash outflow of "expendable income" while the crystal ball is so murky.  I'm becoming one of Aesop's fabled ants.

The AM RS11's were announced just under the wire.  Ordered and paid for.  Anything new from either MTH or Lionel is really going to have to blow my socks off.  Then I'm also going to have to expend some income on a new pair of socks, too...

Rusty

 I go back to my original question: HOW LONG can S SURVIVE if the manufacturers continue to market to the existing S folks? Somewhere in all this, NEW S people have to be found! I was hoping the S Polar Express sets would find their way into the general marketplace, as they aren't priced badly for a starter set & a few years ago would have been VERY popular. Showing the movie on TV every year is not the same buying incentive that having it in the Theatres with little Johnny & Suzie seeing it on the big screen and leaving The hteatre wanting to Believe and the nearby store has some trains just like in the movie on the shelf. . ."Daddy!! Mommy!! PLEASE!!!!!!"

THAT's one way to get more S train folks!!! I would say that 90% of us didn't start out as "Model Railroaders" but as kids playing with trains (of course, I realize that I'm just a Bigger Kid still playing with trains, but if you wish to believe you are doing something different, I won't argue with you!).

Maybe, it's just less expensive to have the decoration done in China rather than spending a quarter ton of money on new painting equipment.  I'm pretty sure if AM

still has their old painting equipment, it couldn't put out the same quality of decoration modelers have come to expect today.

There's a world of difference in the quality of decoration between 1980/1990's decorated AM products and today.  I finally located a tiny bit of overspray on my recent T&P GP's, whereas my Santa Fe GP's of yesteryear have somewhat fuzzy lettering, stripes and the yellow ends were so pale I repainted them.

Rapido Trains (Canadian HO & N manufacturer) was once asked why they don't do everything domestically.  Their response was to the effect that while they could have the products assembled in Canada, nobody produces the quality of decoration like the Chinese.

Rusty

As for new hobby participants in S gauge, I am far from young, but I seriously considered going with S when I got back in the hobby a few years ago. As I have said before it seems like the perfect scale to me. However, the selection of product just is not what it is in O gauge. I went with O gauge because of selection and I actually like having 3 rails. I think it would be difficult to attract new people when the selection in other gauges/scales is so much greater. As for the 3 rails, I grew up with them and I guess it just seems like that is the way it should be.

In the few years I have been back in the hobby, it does seem like my LHS has more S gauge in the store now? This could be because they had just opened about a year before I got back in the hobby and have been slowly building inventory since then. The do have a lot more stuff all around now. Or maybe there really is more to offer in S gauge than there was 3-4 years ago? Personally, I would like to see the S gauge part of the hobby grow.

 "I seriously considered going with S when I got back in the hobby a few years ago. As I have said before it seems like the perfect scale to me. However, the selection of product just is not what it is in O gauge. I went with O gauge because of selection"

   This is what the manufacturers can't understand, there's lots of folks who would choose S scale as their perfect scale if there was just more product available, but they move on to HO or O scale and are lost forever. I guess Lionel and MTH would lose some O sales if they made more S stuff but Lionel could gain more present HO buyers which should be an incentive. MTH has the HO line developing so they might be dogging their S development to avoid cutting into their HO sales? More manufacturers like AM and the old SHS with no conflicts of interest would help the situation, but deeper pockets and long time horizon would be most important. New modelers need to feel that the scale is growing and wants their participation and is not just a relic of the 1950's Flyer days, it takes experience that these new folks don't yet have to see the true possibilities of S scale and right now the manufacturers are not getting the right message out......DaveB 

I cannot speak for AM officially, but Ron told a number of us at the Spree that the company in China is known for its paint work, and they're the best.  Nothing said about price or regulations.  And after seeing the new items compared with the offerings a few years ago, there is indeed a difference.  Model railroaders are expecting better and better detail and paint.  All in all, the new RS-11s are a good deal. 

That being said, Lionel and now MTH have too much "sparky stuff" in them for my taste.  Proprietary systems don't excite me.  A simple AC or DC locomotive suits my taste just fine.  If I wanted to go with more fancy electronics, DCC would be my choice.  The addition of TMCC, Legacy or MTH's system just adds more to the price.  As far as I'm concerned, AM's stuff is better priced. 

Just my opinion...

Stay on topic guys...no more economic/politic posts.  I got too many alerts and spent too much time editing and deleting....

Alan

Perhaps it's time to admit that S is just a niche scale and will never be anything more. If I had my way HO and S would swap places, but nobody asked me...

I too would love to model in S, but between the division between Scale/HiRail/Flyer and the lack of products that I'm really interested in has caused me to look elsewhere. A few years ago things looked much brighter and I thought things might get "on track". That has quickly faded though. As someone newer to S I decided I couldn't commit to a scale that didn't have the kind of MFG support that the other scales (HO, N, O) had.

Having said that, I can't say I blame them. They need to do what is best for their business or they won't be around in the long run.

That is a good idea, IMO. More people should ask you! I have said before that S seems like the perfect scale, if there is such a thing, but it just isn't very popular and I don't get it? Maybe it's the old catch 22, people don't get into S scale because there is not enough selection and the manufacturers won't increase the selections because not enough people are getting into the scale. Wonder how the manufacturers would do with a 'build it and they will buy' strategy? They probably know a lot about the S market that I don't though?

We just are adding a small S gauge layout in our Houston Tinplate Operators Society location at Memorial City Mall and are waiting for turnouts from MTH to complete the track work.  It has been a long wait, but I see the same thing happening in O gauge from both Lionel and MTH.  That will be the can with the manufacturing being done overseas.  But we will get our items sooner or later.

Except for my childhood AF days, I have only been engaged in s scale for the last 6 years or so.  I know that compared to the rest of you that makes me a rookie.  But, based on my internet education of the history of s scale, I would observe that s scale has been dying since it was invented in the 1930's.  While I agree that it would be great to have more selection, I especially miss SHS, I have a feeling that it will continue to die out for the next 20, 30, or who knows how many years. Long may it die.

PHM