Installing Kadee Couplers using Mario's( CentralFan1976 ) Shapeway products: update 27 Oct MTH GP30

I'm currently working on a MPC GP9.. I think I've got it figured out!! Once I'm satisfied with the install, I'll post some pictures..

Woodson posted:

I'm currently working on a MPC GP9.. I think I've got it figured out!! Once I'm satisfied with the install, I'll post some pictures..

Looking forward to seeing it.

Mario

Just took delivery of a MTH GN U25B. From looking at the pilot and position of the kadee mounting holes. GP9 mount unmodified as it looks to be Improved tooling of the Weaver pilot. Easy conversion, should tack about an hour. I  will post pics tomorrow.  Here something that should give you a smile.

Been working on this all day.

  PT 8 is the MTH GN U25B

Mario AKA  CentralFan1976   ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, and GP40s. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35.

The purpose of this thread , is to show how adapt his products for other then their intended uses.

A couple of things to note. If you plan on fixing the pilots you will need to mount a spacer between the frame and the pilot.  You will also have to remove the coupler mounts from the trucks.

Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox

Lionel O scale EMD GP7/GP9 pilot Kadee coupler mount
https://www.shapeways.com/product/GF...ionId=57308322

I used the GP9 mount as it sat flush with the pilot face using the predrilled holes in the pilot. I still had to reduce the width and ad an extension on the bottom of the mount in order to fill the gap. No additional shimming was required for the height of the coupler.

1st thing I had to do was modify the GP9 mount by sanding down the side until it fit the space in the pilot.

 next I added a 3/4 in strip of Plastruct 0.40 187/1mm x .48. and glued it to the bottom of the mount inorder to fill the gap below the mount.  Then sanded to match width of the modified mount.

 I then  the sanded down the edges where the Kadee is inserted. I then filled in all gaps and rough edges  with green putty. Once dried,  rounded out the front of the coupler mount and sanded face until even. I found that using the green putty was easier to spread, then what I had been using before.

Reinstall mount into the pilot. Once satisfied with fit. I screwed down the mount to the pilot using the MTH predrilled holes for mounting Kadees.   Then it was off to be primed and painted.

I reattached the pilots to the trucks. You will note that by using the Kadee 743s there wasn't any need to remove the coupler mounts fro the trucks.

The finished engine.

CNJ #1601 liked your topic reply.     CNJ #1601,  Thanks. 

Also made a correction in the parts list.

Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox

Lionel O scale EMD GP7/GP9 pilot Kadee coupler mount
https://www.shapeways.com/product/GF...ionId=57308322

How cool is that?

You totally found something that I never knew would happen, it would sit flush AND the holes would line up!

You are dragging us into the next evolution of this hobby; kicking and screaming. 

Great job!

Mario

MTH does the same thing as Lionel. The same Pilot part number is used in several engines. You still have to do alittle sanding to insure it's flush. In this case very little was needed. I also found that the mounts bow at the bottom once you install the draft gear box. If your not going to close the gap at the bottom, it not an issue. Because I am closing the gap, a little sanding is required to make it flat so I could add the strip of plastruct. I messed up and forgot to do the measurements, so you could produce these.  Later today I will  pull the MTH GP 35 mount and do a quick comparison and do the measurements for you. I will do the same thing with the Weaver  pilots for the U25B/U30B and RS11. As for narrowing the the opening were you install the draft gear box. Personally I leave it. It allows me fill in and round of the front to make it more prototypical. Where would be the fun if all the work was done for me. If you look at the pilots of the prototypes. You will notice that most couple boxes are not squared off. To be honest, the hardest part, is tapping the guide holes in the pilots that don't have them and getting them equal distance and perpendicular to the front or face of the Pilot. Same as for the holes. Three across the front is good and gives you options. The rear hole not so much as I have found in most cases that section had to be removed anyway. The MTH pilots that have the pre drilled holes are perpendicular to the front of the Pilot anyway.

Doug

Where did you get your green putty?? Also what type of glue are you using?? I found Testors didn't work very well.. Basic questions I know, but don't forget I'm the newbie on this work.. lol

Woodson posted:

Where did you get your green putty?? Also what type of glue are you using?? I found Testors didn't work very well.. Basic questions I know, but don't forget I'm the newbie on this work.. lol

We all have been wet behind the ears at one time.    To answer your questions

Squadron Products  Green putty. I bought it at HobbyTown in Brandon( MacDill East). I sure most hobby shops sell it or just go to their website to order. I like it because its more like using bondo, especially when I am filling in seams and gaps. The other putty I was using is good but this spreads better.

For Glue I mainly use Plastruct Bondene. Which is made for Styrene and ABS plastic. You apply it to both pieces that your gluing. Let it soak in. Then reapply and stick them to gather. What it does is loosens up the plastic and makes it soft. When you stick the two pieces to gather it welds the plastic.  It works real good with the material that shapeway uses for the Mario's coupler mounts.

Thanks for the information!! Unfortunately, I don't have any hobby shops nearby.. I need to place an order with Plastruct anyway...

I am updating the conversion to Kadess of the MTH GP35..

When I initially published I had stated That I used the GP9 mounts.. That was an error. I had used the GP30 mounts.  I also pulled them to round off the front of the mount and filled in all the gaps. Since this is an easy bolt on conversion. It was just a matter of unscrewing and make the changes.  

Next I want to cover how I determine which of Mario's Kadee mounts I use with the MTH pilots.  

The MTH premier pilots come with holes already predrilled for the Kadees since most of the later production is 2/3R capable. These engines will have the predrilled holes.  The position of these holes will determine which one you use. The GP30 and the GP40 holes are in the same location. The GP9 holes are set farther back. On the picture below: left is the GP 30 Mount and on the right is the GP9 mount. Note the difference in the hole location. The simple way to determine what you need is to simply align the holes on the mounts to the pilot. The front of the mount needs to be( where it starts angling down) lined up with the top of the pilot. Once you have determined which one you will use,  you can start your conversion.  

The other thing I have been doing now is rounding out the front of the kadee mount at the point were the coupler/draft gear box is inserted.  I do it because it looks more prototypical. You don't have to do this.  

I hope this helps.

Part List MTH GP35 Updated part  list

Part List: #740Type E Couplers Change to Kadee 743s

Lionel GP30 Kadee mounts   https://www.shapeways.com/product/43...ionId=57308314

MTH GP35 Modified GP30 mount  I had to modify the mounts the same way I did the SD45. Sand both sides down until they fit the gap in the pilot. The next step  

The next step I installed the 743s into the mount and then sanded off the angles. Using the green putty, I filled in the gaps then sanded to desired shape. 

I then mounted them on to the pilots using the MTH predrilled holes for Kadee couplers. After I used the green putty to fill in all gaps. Let it dry and sanded. Then off to paint.

Now because I had originally used 805s. I had to do this in order to make everything fit. By using the 743s you will eliminate this step.

OK, humor me, which is the narrower mount?? Still trying fitting options, and working with some MPC GPxs, and taking pictures, in case someone is interested.....  I'm still gathering up stuff.. Proper glues etc.. As I said earlier, no hobby shops close by to rely on.. Have to get a lot of things off Evil Bay... Nice work BTW!!!!!

Wood

The GP9 and 30 are the same width as purchased from Shapeways.  The GP40 mount is wider.  For pilots without the predrilled holes. You will actually have to test fit first. Which is an easy process for non lionel engines. So far, the only nonlionel pilots are the Weavers U25B and RS11. In both cases I have gone with the GP30 mounts.  Later today or tomorrow I will cover the pilots that I have to drill holes for the mounts.   Please bare with me as I am still learning how to do How to stuff, unlike Mario and Doug( Laidoffsick ) who have made it an art form.  The one thing I did do and this is what led me to try them on the nonlionel pilot was this.  When I ordered the mounts from Shapeways for my Lionel GP30s and GP9s. I had ordered extra mounts of each.  When I discovered with modification I could make it work for the MTH GP35s and the SD45s. I started to order more. At that time I also ordered the GP40 mounts, so I could see what they work in.  I would recommend that you order a couple of pairs of each. Then when you are able to determine which works best with the Postwar and MPC pilots. Then you can order more. The less modification to the mounts the better. Its a lot easier to add styrene to the sides and bottom then it is to have to sand down sides to fit. That is in keeping of Mario's intent of being a simple bolt on conversion.  Unfortunately this is unavoidable so far with the MTH pilots. Since you are doing this conversion with Postwar/MPC/027 equipment. You are defiantly breaking new ground and I am looking forward to seeing how you do it. Normally this thread would be in the 3RS forum, but I chose to put it in the  Hi-Rail, O27 and Traditional 3-Rail O Gauge for more visibility to the Non 3RS crowd..

Please bear with me as I am still learning how to do How to stuff, unlike Mario and Doug( Laidoffsick ) who have made it an art form.

Looks like you're doing a fine job to me!! I've watched Doug's U-tube videos.. He does a great job and makes it look easier than it really is, of course he's working with scale equipment too..

You are defiantly breaking new ground and I am looking forward to seeing how you do it. Normally this thread would be in the 3RS forum, but I chose to put it in the  Hi-Rail, O27 and Traditional 3-Rail O Gauge for more visibility to the Non 3RS crowd..

Not sure about "breaking new ground", but thanks for the compliment!!  I hope I'll help generate some interest in upgrading some of the less expensive and readily available items.. Some people say, why.. I say, why not...

Update to SD24/SD45 Earlier Premier SD24/SD45/SD9 had the same powered trucks that can be found on the RK SD9 and RK SD45s You could do one of two things. Order from MTH the current Premier pilots only for the SD24 or drill out the holes for the Kadee mount. With 743s you do not need to do anything else as the Pilots will mount without any issues on the older style powered trucks. For the RK SD9/45 and older Premier SD45. They share the same pilot assembly.  Same process as above for the SD45, Lionel GP30 mount modified. I apologize for not having pics of SD9/RK SD45. Only did a test fit in response to another thread.   

Below are Pics of earlier Premier SD24 modified. All has been updated in the SD24 section. 

Have you run any of your newly converted diesels in an multi unit consist? I'm curious about the results with those 743 couplers.

Laidoffsick posted:

Have you run any of your newly converted diesels in an multi unit consist? I'm curious about the results with those 743 couplers.

No issues at all so far.  But also understand I cut an additional slit in the front of the draft gear box.  The draft gear box already has one side with a gap for more play. I just add a cut to the other side. The 743s seam to have more play then 806.

PT 9 The MTH GP30

I have been upgrading my Engine fleet with Kadees for the last couple of months.

Mario AKA  CentralFan1976   ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, d GP40s and many others. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35.

The purpose of this thread and others, is to show how adapt his products for other uses. The first one is the install of Kadees on the MTH Premier SD45

Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox

Lionel O scale GP7/GP9 Coupler Mount https://www.shapeways.com/prod...nt?optionId=57308323

After removing the shell and disconnecting the motors from the trucks  I removed the pilot and the Electrocouplars.

I then proceed to sand down the sides of the mount to about an 1/8 of an inch. Did the same thing with the bottom to about a 1/4 inch.  From there I used sand paper 800 grit to fine tune until they were a snug fit.  Unlike the old design all I was sanding was the face plate which was a lot easier and faster compared to the old design of sanding down the entire side.  

Once I was satisfied with the fit, I assembled and installed the 743.  At this point I went with a different option and used  a very heavy duty and strong epoxy to hold the mount in place. Following the instructions I let it cure overnight.  Note on last pic. The old design I would have hade to trim off the back and the sides in order for the mount to fit in the pocket of the pilot.

Once the epoxy had cured I then dilled out the holes in the mount and then screwed in place. Now MTH had already put holes in the pilot for Kadees. But in this case they did not line up with the mount in the correct position. The drilling accomplishes two things. Enlarges the holes in the draft gear box, the mount and into the pilot and allows the screws to be mounted smoothly. Then it was off to paint .  

On dried I reinstalled the pilots

Before smoking a stogie.

After

Up coming installs:  Williams FA1,  MTH FA2, MTH GP7/9s

Beautiful. Just beautiful. 

Thanks Mario.

The redesigned GP 7/9 and 30 mounts are alot easier to work with and look good installed.

suzukovich posted:

Thanks Mario.

The redesigned GP 7/9 and 30 mounts are alot easier to work with and look good installed.

Agreed. 

I'm sorry that the evolution has been so long to get to this point... The learning curve is steep. 

Keep up the great work!

-Mario

During this build instead of securing the mounts to the pilot with screws, I used an Epoxy instead ( 1800lbs per square inch ).   Video shows the strength of the epoxy used. GP 30 is pulling about 14 lbs worth of cars. Screws used were 2/56 1/2 in which are not deep enough to mount securely into the pilot.  

You guys are way ahead of me, however, I'm trying to catch up.  As Mario says, "The learning curve is steep."  That said, my first experience with Mario's Shapeways offerings was with an Atlas O RS, this past summer, and I was extremely impressed.  The installation was easy and flawless.

Then I took a leap of faith and tried Mario's Lionel GP30 mounts on my Milwaukee Road MTH GP30 and, not surprisingly, they worked flawlessly, even matching up with the pre-drilled holes.

Since I always order one extra (just because I know I'll wreck one), I tried the spare on my MTH NW2 and it fit perfectly, too, protruding just enough beyond the carbody to give the illusion of prototype:

Now, if MTH would just come out with their Premier GP30 in CGW...