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While I was on my lunch break at work I was thinking about the early stages of designing a new train layout once I am done with college in two years?  Most likely I will be building a small layout either on a 4x8 table or do a shelf layout along the wall.  I was just thinking though is it possible to do a small layout with operations with way bills and car cards and be able to have a decent length operating session?  I know this is more popular with the smaller scales but I still want to stick with O Gauge because I own a good amount of equipment and track. Have anyone on the forum designed a small layout for operation in mind?  I still like being able to relax and run trains though too so that is why I am not a big fan of doing a point to point layout.  

Last edited by FECguy
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Originally Posted by Drew Madere:

YES!!!   I use  ProTrak  and now only operate my 11X20 layout...  

I will have to research more about it.  Thank you though. One question though is ProTrak compatible with DCS?  With my last Layout that is what I used and I would like to continue to use it since most of my locomotives are MTH Proto Sound 2 ones.  

Last edited by FECguy

I have spent some time designing a small layout (76" by 48") that has a loop for running and yards for operation. I incorporate SuperStreets to get from one small spur to the one on the other side of the layout. It uses O16 curves that can be easily be negotiated by a TrackMobile.

 

 

The curves are FasTrack O36 with all but one switch O48.

 

Last edited by TM Terry
Originally Posted by TM Terry:

I have spent some time designing a small layout (76" by 48") that has a loop for running and yards for operation. I incorporate SuperStreets to get from one small spur to the one on the other side of the layout. It uses O16 curves that can be easily be negotiated by a TrackMobile.

 

 

The curves are FasTrack O36 with all but one switch O48.

 

I really like your layout a lot.  The incorporation SuperStreats is a good idea because many small industrial railroads and shorelines sometimes have track directly in the pavement. I might need to purchase a TrackMobile someday because it seems like it would be pretty useful for switching cars around an industrial area. 

 

Last edited by FECguy

 

 

 

 YEs it is possible to design a small layout for operation.  My favorite ideas eliminate the continuous run.   I find once I start operating, I don't use it anyway.   

 

Consider a loop such as on a 4x8 if you want continouse.   put an interchange on one long side and lets say 4 industries or locations for setting out cars on the other long side.  Run your switcher out to the interchange to pick up cars and bring them back.   Make the setouts and pickups on the industrial side and then run the setouts back to the interchange.    I would do this using only one end loop, ie run it point to point.    I might put a divider down the middle of the layout too, so you can't see one side from the other.    You could "fiddle" additional cars on and off the layout when they go on the interchange.   Just put a "hold" cycle on your waybills, or more than one.

 

Consider around the walls too.   You can get twice as much space in around the walls layout in the same size room.    consider a room that is 10 feet square, 100 sq feet.   If you build an island layout in the middle and leave 2.5 feet open on each side for access, you have a 5x5 foot layout that is 25 square feet.     You can reach it all from the aisles around it.    Now consider putting a 2.5 foot shelf around all the walls of the room.   The shelves would now total 75 square feet of layout space with 25 feet of access in the middle.    YOu can still reach any part of the layout since it is only 2.5 feet deep, but you  have 3 times as much layout.    This is just a simple example to show the arithmetic, but it applies to any size room.

Originally Posted by prrjim:

 

 

 

 YEs it is possible to design a small layout for operation.  My favorite ideas eliminate the continuous run.   I find once I start operating, I don't use it anyway.   

 

Consider a loop such as on a 4x8 if you want continouse.   put an interchange on one long side and lets say 4 industries or locations for setting out cars on the other long side.  Run your switcher out to the interchange to pick up cars and bring them back.   Make the setouts and pickups on the industrial side and then run the setouts back to the interchange.    I would do this using only one end loop, ie run it point to point.    I might put a divider down the middle of the layout too, so you can't see one side from the other.    You could "fiddle" additional cars on and off the layout when they go on the interchange.   Just put a "hold" cycle on your waybills, or more than one.

 

Consider around the walls too.   You can get twice as much space in around the walls layout in the same size room.    consider a room that is 10 feet square, 100 sq feet.   If you build an island layout in the middle and leave 2.5 feet open on each side for access, you have a 5x5 foot layout that is 25 square feet.     You can reach it all from the aisles around it.    Now consider putting a 2.5 foot shelf around all the walls of the room.   The shelves would now total 75 square feet of layout space with 25 feet of access in the middle.    YOu can still reach any part of the layout since it is only 2.5 feet deep, but you  have 3 times as much layout.    This is just a simple example to show the arithmetic, but it applies to any size room.

I have been thinking a lot about designing a shelf layout.  It would make it possible to have a nice train layout without having to dedicate a room to one and it allow for point to point operation with wide radius switches and curves. I know they are popular in the smaller scales but has someone designed one in O-gauge?  Also is the benchwork more complicated then building your average 4x8 table?

The "reversing" spur at the left of the layout that allows an engine and a standard 40' freight car to back down the long siding, is easily accomplished with the TrackMobile. The only freight I have are small ACF 2-bay covered hoppers and PS-2 2-bay covered hoppers  and that can just bearly accomplish the task with my Alco S-2.

 

There was an article with photos in Model Railroader quite a few years ago of an O Scale 2 rail layout on a shelf.

 

Shelf layouts in all scales are quite common in England where space is very prohibitive.

 

And what is the difference between smaller scales and larger scales when making a track plan?    Why worry about if someone has done it?   I'm sure they have.   

 

Mine is not shelf, but it is around the room with a peninsula up the middle.    The around room parts are really very big shelves I guess.

 

If you stick to about 12-18 inches width, you could use shelf brackets from the hardware and mount the layout right to the wall.   You could make your own brackets.    If you get much wider than maybe 2 feet, you probably need to think about legs.   The benchwork is not any harder than a table, just different.   Or if you use legs, just the same, only smaller tables. 

Originally Posted by FECguy:

While I was on my lunch break at work I was thinking about the early stages of designing a new train layout once I am done with college in two years?  Most likely I will be building a small layout either on a 4x8 table or do a shelf layout along the wall.  I was just thinking though is it possible to do a small layout with operations with way bills and car cards and be able to have a decent length operating session?  I know this is more popular with the smaller scales but I still want to stick with O Gauge because I own a good amount of equipment and track. Have anyone on the forum designed a small layout for operation in mind?  I still like being able to relax and run trains though too so that is why I am not a big fan of doing a point to point layout.  

I would say no. Not on a table. The type of operating sessions you are thinking about in O gauge with a continuous loop would require an around the room with a lift out for access.

 

Think it through, a producer or two of product or material, a yard for classification and a customer or two. You could achieve that with an around the room. Staying point-to-point would give you one open wall(non-train) for a tv and such. 18" wide may let you squeeze in a three track yard. A reasonable yard with a long enough lead to prevent fouling the main needs at least 10ft. That will give you 3-4ft stubs.

 

Read through this between your study reading and it should help you get some thoughts on paper. Reading some of the well known layout designers will help you find a solution also.

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Last edited by Moonman
Originally Posted by Moonman:
Originally Posted by FECguy:

While I was on my lunch break at work I was thinking about the early stages of designing a new train layout once I am done with college in two years?  Most likely I will be building a small layout either on a 4x8 table or do a shelf layout along the wall.  I was just thinking though is it possible to do a small layout with operations with way bills and car cards and be able to have a decent length operating session?  I know this is more popular with the smaller scales but I still want to stick with O Gauge because I own a good amount of equipment and track. Have anyone on the forum designed a small layout for operation in mind?  I still like being able to relax and run trains though too so that is why I am not a big fan of doing a point to point layout.  

I would say no. Not on a table. The type of operating sessions you are thinking about in O gauge with a continuous loop would require an around the room with a lift out for access.

 

Think it through, a producer or two of product or material, a yard for classification and a customer or two. You could achieve that with an around the room. Staying point-to-point would give you one open wall(non-train) for a tv and such. 18" wide may let you squeeze in a three track yard. A reasonable yard with a long enough lead to prevent fouling the main needs at least 10ft. That will give you 3-4ft stubs.

 

Read through this between your study reading and it should help you get some thoughts on paper. Reading some of the well known layout designers will help you find a solution also.

Thank you. I will make sure to read it.

10x10 point to point layout

Here is a layout I creating in Railmodeller.  It is a 10x10 foot point to point layout with 2 foot wide shelves using Realtrax.  I will continue to research and read to be able to design better track plans. 

In-house room layouts are always a challenge in our chosen scale/gauge since the typical spare room is usually a 10x10 to 12x12 rectangle (not including the closet). One thing that can allow the use of the room for relaxing is using an around-the-walls design with shelving at 24" or narrower and an elevated height of about 54". This allows placement of a couch, television, or work desk under the layout's bench work if metal shelf bracketing is used to support the decks.

 

My focus has somewhat drifted away from continuous run in favor of point-to-point operation, but it is nice to be able to run trains and relax. Ideally, you'd want a layout that can operate as a point-to-point with a continuous run option -- hidden, removable, or obvious. Ideally, the lift-out for interior access could be the cut-off. A mid-route run-around would be a good thing to have.

 

In the samples below, the room (a spare bedroom at home) is 11'8" x 12' (not including the closet) and were designed around using a duck-under/lift-out at the room entrance. These are pretty old designs and for now I've been focusing on single-shelf switching deck designs.

 

This first one uses 36" radius (O-72) and 40" radius (O-80) ScaleTrax curves and is designed as a continuous run but can simulate point-to-point operation because of the orientation of the spur tracks.

 

11.8x12--36-inch_radius

 

This one is 54" radius (O-108) and is a simple continuous run.

11.8x12--54-inch_radius

 

Here's one modeled after an area in Anahiem, California with street-running as the focus. It was more of a study on street-running and scenery as opposed to operation. The track here is Atlas 2-rail with 54" radius (O-108).

 

12.0x12.0_Santa_Ana_Avenue

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Images (3)
  • 11.8x12--36-inch_radius
  • 11.8x12--54-inch_radius
  • 12.0x12.0_Santa_Ana_Avenue
Last edited by AGHRMatt
Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:

In-house room layouts are always a challenge in our chosen scale/gauge since the typical spare room is usually a 10x10 to 12x12 rectangle (not including the closet). One thing that can allow the use of the room for relaxing is using an around-the-walls design with shelving at 24" or narrower and an elevated height of about 54". This allows placement of a couch, television, or work desk under the layout's bench work if metal shelf bracketing is used to support the decks.

 

My focus has somewhat drifted away from continuous run in favor of point-to-point operation, but it is nice to be able to run trains and relax. Ideally, you'd want a layout that can operate as a point-to-point with a continuous run option -- hidden, removable, or obvious. Ideally, the lift-out for interior access could be the cut-off. A mid-route run-around would be a good thing to have.

 

In the samples below, the room (a spare bedroom at home) is 11'8" x 12' (not including the closet) and were designed around using a duck-under/lift-out at the room entrance. These are pretty old designs and for now I've been focusing on single-shelf switching deck designs.

 

This first one uses 36" radius (O-72) and 40" radius (O-80) ScaleTrax curves and is designed as a continuous run but can simulate point-to-point operation because of the orientation of the spur tracks.

 

11.8x12--36-inch_radius

 

This one is 54" radius (O-108) and is a simple continuous run.

11.8x12--54-inch_radius

 

Here's one modeled after an area in Anahiem, California with street-running as the focus. It was more of a study on street-running and scenery as opposed to operation. The track here is Atlas 2-rail with 49.5" radius (O-99).

 

12.0x12.0_Santa_Ana_Avenue

Thank you.  I really like the first layout plan a lot because it has a removable bridge so it is easy to go to the center of the layout.  The third plan is interesting too.  My hometown has some street running but unfortunately there are no industries along that section.  

I have a great designer/close friend, Vernon Hart, here in town that designs layouts. All of his layouts are for operations. Yes he/anyone can do this....but IMHO I think it takes someone who has worked on a railroad for some time. Vernon retired from the BN with over 25 years as a train engineer.

 

Ask around where you live and find someone who has worked on a railroad and I believe that you will get a design that will blow you away.

 

As I said before....In My Humble Opinion.

Originally Posted by Roger Wasson:

I have a great designer/close friend, Vernon Hart, here in town that designs layouts. All of his layouts are for operations. Yes he/anyone can do this....but IMHO I think it takes someone who has worked on a railroad for some time. Vernon retired from the BN with over 25 years as a train engineer.

 

Ask around where you live and find someone who has worked on a railroad and I believe that you will get a design that will blow you away.

 

As I said before....In My Humble Opinion.

That is a good idea.  There are shortlines owned by Pinsly called the Florida Northern, Florida Midland and Florida Central railroads. They would be interesting prototypes to model but the only issue I would have to get a GP9 repainted in there paint scheme because no Ogauge manufacture has made a GP9 in that paint scheme.  I do not think I would have the skills to pull off repainting a $300 locomotive.  

Here's my current layout in a 12x12 room, with a 2x14 extension yard down the side:

 

 

FINAL CURRENT LAYOUT OCT 2013

 

Here's a 12x12 layout I found on the internet:

 

 

12x12b

 

And here's a layout that Dave Hikel drew up for me:

 

 

Dave Hikel plan 1

 

My layout has 072 curves on the mainline and 054 elsewhere.  I wish I had gone all 072 and maybe used some numbered switches instead of 072 and 054 switches.

 

I much prefer an around the room layout as opposed to an island type, the access point is at the Wye and it's a hinged, drop down section.  I can run trains in either direction from the small yard and once at the industries I can lower the drop down section and perform switching duties.

 

Here's a new idea I had in mind, but doubt I'll ever do it:

 

 

4 NEW IDEA LAYOUT FEB 2014

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Images (4)
  • FINAL CURRENT LAYOUT OCT 2013
  • 12x12b
  • Dave Hikel plan 1
  • 4 NEW IDEA LAYOUT FEB 2014

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