Is TTOS reforming?

I used to be active in TTOS, and it was active in this area.  I submitted articles, etc., but there was some kind of hassle on west coast, local active people passed, and my last effort was to buy a convention car.  So l would like to know, too

I have no answers on the national TTOS group, which runs the website.

It is my understanding that at the moment there are 2 separate TTOS groups, there is the National group, which has management/credibility issues and has essentially imploded on itself, and there is the TTOS Southwestern? group that is based in Southern California.  The Southwestern group's charter was a separate corporation? from the National group and when the National group started having management issues, they withdrew their support from that group.

As far as the TTOS group "losing" its Cal Stewart meet, that had nothing to do with any problems within the TTOS.  The Cal Stewart show was always put on by the Southwestern group, much like York is put on by the Eastern Division of TCA, rather than by National.  The decision to not hold the Cal Stewart meet was due to high costs/low attendance.  I was at the final Cal Stewart show, which was held in 2018? and the attendance was awful.  I have friends who were involved with the show and my understanding is that attendance had been falling for years and they moved venues several times in order to keep the costs low.  The show was always for club members only on Saturday and then to the public and club members on Sunday.  The public never showed up for the last show and they ended up losing money.  So the Southwestern group decided that they would no longer hold the 2-day Cal Stewart show.  It is my understanding that the Southwestern group still holds a 1-day show every month and they typically sell more tables than they did for the last Cal Stewart show.

If you had followed the Cal Stewart/NorCal shows, Cal Stewart being in November and NorCal being in March, you would recall that the NorCal show (put on by the local TCA group in the San Francisco area) stopped being a 2 day show at some point prior to the final Cal Stewart show.  It is my understanding that the reasons for NorCal going to a single day show were similar to the Cal Stewart show not being held any longer.

TTOS is indeed rebuilding its website.

TTOS National is financially healthy and adding new members each month through its divisions in a number of states.

J Keeley, Director-at-Large, West

I was a Member of Sac Valley Division and the membership has been declining rapidly since 2020, the enviornment is very toxic there.

@J Keeley posted:

TTOS is indeed rebuilding its website.

TTOS National is financially healthy and adding new members each month through its divisions in a number of states.

J Keeley, Director-at-Large, West

Can you share current TTOS membership numbers this year and last year’s numbers?

I have been told that TTOS National Membership Stands at 1200 members + or -

Mikey

Years ago, there was a rumor that one of the national officers said that if the national got into financial trouble, they would siphon money from the various local chapters. That caused many of the local chapters to incorporate as separate entities, at least from the financial standpoint.

Not much of a website.  Six months of "rebuilding" yielded one page?  TTOS Website

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not much of a website.  Six months of "rebuilding" yielded one page?  TTOS Website

They have now a new website which I believe has been around for a while: https://www.ttos.org/.

@NIKHIL posted:

They have now a new website which I believe has been around for a while: https://www.ttos.org/.

That's the site I linked, it's one page!

The website says it all, lack of Information declining membership and lots of arrogance.

Mikey

Just announced TTOS is going under Dec 31 2023 as we know it. My division will begin discussion on how to live or die. Stay tuned

Ugh, I hope the local chapters still survive somehow.

Here is what has gone out to the Southern Pacific Division and my understanding is that all of the Division Presidents are working to make their Divisions grow and move forward:

The TTOS National Board of Directors made significant changes to the structure of TTOS at the recently-concluded National Convention. SP President Jeff Meyer has made the following statement: "TTOS is going to a regional format with the Divisions functioning as normal. More details will be discussed in the future. Nothing is going away; Southern Pacific will continue as normal." All planned SP Division events will go on as scheduled, including the December Super Meet. Please ignore the rumors and misinformation that have begun circulating on social media. Our Division remains strong, financially sound, and growing in membership.

SP

The TTOS will cease to exist on 12/31/23,declining membership and bad MANAGEMENT.

@mikey posted:

The TTOS will cease to exist on 12/31/23,declining membership and bad MANAGEMENT.

Mike, is that your opinion or do you have substantive information?

Paul

@Railrunnin posted:

Mike, is that your opinion or do you have substantive information?

Paul

Call the TTOS National,info from National Convention.

If this is true it is sad. But I think all membership groups that focus on a single hobby or similar interest are in bad shape. Last year I was surprised when the Gold Wing Road Riders Association suddenly shut down. But just like train groups,  people just aren't joining them anymore.

TTOS is the smallest of the national train clubs -- LCCA, LOTS, and TCA are larger. Size matters for maintaining an effective organization. Showing a useful website is a marketing must-have. Presenting well-attended train shows and conventions is a big plus. Outstanding publications bind the members to those clubs. LCCA has the HUGE benefit of endorsement by Lionel LLC.

The passing of National TTOS on 12-31-23 may be an indication of "the numbers" out of sync with reality.  If the divisions survive, club spirit will continue at that level.

Mike Mottler

TTOS National will dissolve at the end of the year and all assets are being distributed to the divisions. Most divisions are already operating fairly independently anyways. The composition of the National officers and board hasn’t changed much in 15 years because no one else will run for office. Nearly every one of them is doing a thankless job that literally nobody else will volunteer for. In some election years, certain officer positions didn’t have a single candidate because someone wanted to finally step down and retire but they got railroaded in to staying on board.

A club can only thrive and survive if the membership is willing to help run the club. If the same people get stuck volunteering to run it for 10, 20, 30 plus years, they get burned out and lose passion for the club and the hobby.

Membership in all national train clubs has been dropping for over 20 years now. The hobby has changed in many ways and the old club models like TCA, TTOS, LOTS, etc. don’t seem to be compatible with the behaviors of most hobbyists these days. It’s a dying model and a sign of the times.

@Ryan Selvius posted:

TTOS National will dissolve at the end of the year and all assets are being distributed to the divisions. Most divisions are already operating fairly independently anyways. The composition of the National officers and board hasn’t changed much in 15 years because no one else will run for office. Nearly every one of them is doing a thankless job that literally nobody else will volunteer for. In some election years, certain officer positions didn’t have a single candidate because someone wanted to finally step down and retire but they got railroaded in to staying on board.

A club can only thrive and survive if the membership is willing to help run the club. If the same people get stuck volunteering to run it for 10, 20, 30 plus years, they get burned out and lose passion for the club and the hobby.

Membership in all national train clubs has been dropping for over 20 years now. The hobby has changed in many ways and the old club models like TCA, TTOS, LOTS, etc. don’t seem to be compatible with the behaviors of most hobbyists these days. It’s a dying model and a sign of the times.

TCA membership seems to be doing decently! Not so sure about LOTS :-D

TCA is also shrinking, just not as rapidly and it is a much larger club so it will take much longer for it to fade away. Ask any veteran member about York 20+ years ago compared to now. They’ll most likely say it ain’t wht it used to be.

As for LOTS, I don’t have firsthand knowledge but I’ve heard their membership roster isn’t much higher than TTOS. I think both clubs have dropped below 3,000 members at this point.

As a TTOS member we were told that TTOS would cease to exist 12/31/2023. The last membership figure I saw was approximately 1200 members.

Just a thought, but strong and well-populated online organizations (thinking of, for example, the Forum) may be contributing to the reduction in membership of some train clubs. Many people could well feel that they get everything they need from the Forum or other online sources with respect to O gauge information and fellowship, and the benefits of belonging to a national "club" have been diminished.

Its a shame any club will go away. The LCCA is strong and will certainly accept any one from another club if they want to stay connected to the hobby. We have a lot to offer our membership and please give us a look at our website www.LIONELCOLLECTORS.ORG. If you are coming to York stop by our booth KK-5 in the Orange hall and meet our President Mark Kempfer and other club officers. You can join there and see our club offerings.

SAL Gambino/Past President.

Although I like to support the hobby, I dropped out of TTOS and LOTS a couple of years ago as their publications seemed fairly limited compared with LCCA and TCA, which I've maintained.  To me the main value of the clubs is the publications.  The annual conventions are attractive, but I rarely attend.

@dk122trains posted:

Just announced TTOS is going under Dec 31 2023 as we know it. My division will begin discussion on how to live or die. Stay tuned

Keep us posted.  I want to continue being a member in whatever division is able to go forward for TTOS.  Been a member since 1990 and its part of my train hobby life.  In order to survive, clubs need to embrace younger generations.  The idea that young people don't like trains must stop.  Young railfans and even Lionel collectors are ALL over youtube.  Some are teenagers showing off their York haul of vision and legacy locomotives.  This is a great thing.  Most of the youtuber 1:1 railfans are all younger.   A club with a solid website, great publications, etc will survive.  I for one will never give up printed publications as I keep them all as documents of a past time. 

The TCA will never fade away. The TCA will get smaller over the years, but will be around a long time as a collectors meet.

@Captaincog posted:

Here is what has gone out to the Southern Pacific Division and my understanding is that all of the Division Presidents are working to make their Divisions grow and move forward:

The TTOS National Board of Directors made significant changes to the structure of TTOS at the recently-concluded National Convention. SP President Jeff Meyer has made the following statement: "TTOS is going to a regional format with the Divisions functioning as normal. More details will be discussed in the future. Nothing is going away; Southern Pacific will continue as normal." All planned SP Division events will go on as scheduled, including the December Super Meet. Please ignore the rumors and misinformation that have begun circulating on social media. Our Division remains strong, financially sound, and growing in membership.

SP

Jeff,  Since the other thread vanished certainly not due to anything discussed as of the day prior.  When should the last National Magazine mail?  If I understood correctly.  Its sentimental as I was a member for 32 years.  A positive experience.   Also wondering if any inventory of older club cars still exists?