Lakawanna Passenger train consist with observation cars at both ends

Martin Dougherty posted:

Anyone have photos or information concerning the Lackawanna passenger train(s) that had an observation car at both ends of the consist.  I saw a photo some time ago and wold like to recreate the train with my K Line Lackawanna passenger cars

thanks

To my knowledge, the DL&W did not have such a passenger train. However, what you describe sounds like there Reading Railroad Crusader passenger train, which was all stainless steel streamlined cars with a round end observation at each end, so they train did not have to be turned at each end of its run.

Thank you.  I remember seeing on one of the forums a black & white photo of a square-end (vs. round end) observation car coupled to what appeared to be an E-8, but I don't remember what the caption identified as the railroad.  The caption did mention that to avoid turning the passenger cars around the train ran the two observation cars as described in your message.

I have the K Line square-end observation Phoebe Snow Tavern Car #789, and the K Line Madison Princess Joan with the rear platform.  My train club has a train show scheduled for the USMC museum at Quantico, VA at the end of the month and I plan to run the double observation car consist.   I was hoping to have some concrete example prior to the questions that will probably arise.  Guess I could always hedge on answering with an evasive, but strong "maybe" if asked if the Lackawanna actually had the arrangement.

Martin Dougherty posted:

Thank you.  I remember seeing on one of the forums a black & white photo of a square-end (vs. round end) observation car coupled to what appeared to be an E-8, but I don't remember what the caption identified as the railroad.  The caption did mention that to avoid turning the passenger cars around the train ran the two observation cars as described in your message.

I have the K Line square-end observation Phoebe Snow Tavern Car #789, and the K Line Madison Princess Joan with the rear platform.  My train club has a train show scheduled for the USMC museum at Quantico, VA at the end of the month and I plan to run the double observation car consist.   I was hoping to have some concrete example prior to the questions that will probably arise.  Guess I could always hedge on answering with an evasive, but strong "maybe" if asked if the Lackawanna actually had the arrangement.

Well, you may answer however you desire but, being raised on the Central RR of New Jersey (Cranford, NJ), from 1943 through 1955, I remember seeing the famous Reading Crusader, both under steam power and later with diesels, many, MANY times. We then moved to Chatham, NJ (1955) on the DL&W, and spent most all of my early "Railfaning years" on the Lackawanna. As I posted previously, I never saw any Lackawanna passenger trains with an observation car on each end.

When the LIRR had equipped the Cannon Ball express train to Montauk they ran all heavy weight parlor cars with an open platform observation at each end so they didn't need to turn the train, just run the diesels around.

Thanks again.   Maybe I can copy the "Lionel Vision line" concept as a way of justifying the consist.

Martin Dougherty posted:

Thanks again.   Maybe I can copy the "Lionel Vision line" concept as a way of justifying the consist.

That would NOT be prototypical for the Lackawanna Railroad, which is what you originally asked about. However, anything is possible in the world of "toy trains".

Metro North Commuter Railroad acquired both of the Phoebe's blunt end obs, and run them as an executive train sandwiching a third car;  do an internet search for ' Metro North Phoebe Snow  ' for photos and other info.  This trainset has run on the ex-EL lines in NY State such as Port Jervis and Pascack.   From memory I recall these cars ran in EL livery for a while after their purchase by MNCR before being repainted and remodeled into the current blue stripe colors.

Hope that actually helps,

SZ

The Pere Marquette Railway's Pere Marquettes  were the first streamlined passenger trains delivered in America after WWII  and the first two train sets were each equipped with two 85 foot, blunt-end observation-coach cars built by Pullman-Standard, carried on each end to minimize switching and turning at end terminals.  Powered by the then new, EMD E7's. 

C.J.

I agree with Jack.

Despite my handle, the DLW is my other favorite road. In all my many years of research I have never seen or heard mention of a double ended obs consist.

IT would have been impossible for the DL&W on the Phoebe Snow.  They owned only two observation cars and ran one in each direction every day.

I have seen the pair of cars in Metro North colors back to back in Grand Central.

I once rode the Phoebe Snow with that unique observation car from the Hoboken Terminal to Stroudsburg, PA for a vacation about 1954. I believe we had a matching A-B-A set on the head end, but NO extra observation car.

Tinplate Art posted:

I once rode the Phoebe Snow with that unique observation car to Stroudsburg for a vacation about 1954. I believe we had a matching A-B-A set on the head end, but NO extra observation car.

I don't recall that the DL&W had any B Units for their E Units. 

HW: Probably was an A-A. My memory of that event at 12 years of age is a little fuzzy, but I definitely remember seeing that square-end observation on our way to our coach from the terminal. 

It is true that the Lackawanna did not own any B unit E-8s. However I have seen photos of an F7B between to E8s on freight consists. I model it this way on our club layout.  Even so, Miss Phoebe probably never needed more than the usual 2 E-8, but who knows?  

Thanks for sharing your memories.