Lash Up Questions

Before lashing any locos, I'd run them a few inches apart at same SMPH to see if there was any substantial speed difference between them.  If not, I'd do a lash.

Don't let Rich Melvin hear you call it a "lashup" it's a multi unit consist

1. Rich won't hear this because it's written.

 

2. An MTH lashup is not an MU.  An MU is several locos or powered cars all controlled from a cab at the front end (almost invariably at the end).  When 2 or more MTH locos are lashed up, they are not controlled from the front, by by someone not on the train.  If 2 or more full-scale steam locos are coupled together, they are not MU'ed because the lead loco does not control the others---each has a separate engineer operating the throttle and other controls.

 I like MU...lashups sound like something a cowboy does with cows

I do want to be a jerk right now

Willygee, what sound do cows make?

I don't think it's the sound...

 

Before or after they get hit by a locomotive..

A You Tube friend of mine put this video out this week.

"How to Make A MTH - DCS Lash-Up."

You may find it helpful.

A public video, Published: May 4th, 2015

Thank you Trainroomgary

great video

willygee:  before.

 

Don't blame me, guys, willygee brought in the cows issue to show a moo is more appropriate than a lashup.

 

 

Check your rear coupler on your 0-8-0 to make sure the insulator is installed correctly when it is lashed up. Smoked my board when backing it up in a lash up when the coupler solder tab shorted to the truck axle. The insulator was mounted on the wrong side.

 

 This is what it should look like when installed correctly

 

Now back on the ranch, after we have ventured off into cows, sounds, cowboys and jerks.

 

I would ask if both unit have original sound files in them.  I know you do some customizing.

 

If the sound files are changed, the speed control may not be scale anymore with one of your engines.

 

I would do as RJR stated an run uncoupled to see how bad.

 

After determining a difference make sure wheels clean, traction tires good, tach reader tape clean and tach reader gap correct.   G

Now back on the ranch,

Just couldn't resist some more bovine buffoonery, could you, GGG?

 

riverrailfan, thank for posting that picture.  I'll have to check my 0-8-0.

Thomas - There was a post here about a month ago with a similar subject (two MTH engines running at slightly different scale speeds).  You might want to check out some of the comments there.

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...eed-different?page=1

 

Bob

 

Here's a typical "lash-up".

 

I think steam engines they referred to as double heading,  diesels got the lash up thing.....  but whatever  

 

1 or many engines running is a good thing.

 

I have run many of my diesels and steam engines in tandem,  in a formal double head / lash up logging them together in DCS or I have gone old school,  just run conventional.

 

Typically,  all of mine almost always run about the same speed.  Biggest difference comes on the steam side with a large driver engine and a small one like your 0-8-0 which has real small drivers.  Strange though,  logic wise,  the smaller wheel unit should be running slower,  not faster.  Might mean the SMPH is off.

Lets stop the clock on MTH / DCS and take a step back in time, to day one.

Why don't we try to help Thomas instead of the buffoonery of the other post?  G

In all seriousness, GGG, I don't know that there's much that can be done.  The tolerance in the DCS system is such that speeds are not a perfect math as between any 2 locos.  There have been other posts on the same subject. Rarely would the speed differential be so great that a different tach tape, with one more or one less stripe, could be produced to end the difference. 

I also don't see that a one or two scale MPH difference is going to be a problem.

 

GRJ, I am not aware of anyone having actually taken amperage reading on the motors of two locos in lashups to ascertain what is the effect resulting from a lashup unequal-speeds locos upon the wattage dissipation.  So I shall neither disagree nor disagree whether a 1 or 2 SMPH difference has no effect.

 

I am sure we'll see a whole passle of posts saying they do it all the time, to which I respond, ain't nuthin beats being D&L.

Riverrail fan:  MANY thanks for your post.  I have a 0-8-0 which I bought about 2001.  It was a 5-volt board which I replaced last year with a 3-volt board.  But I didn't look at the tender coupler.  Because of your post, I did tonight, and found that the contacts are a hair away from the axle and the coupler can flex enough that they touch the axle.  I've been lucky---guess I never hit the uncouple button when pushing cars in reverse.  There is no insulator.  Loco has been blue flagged until I can fix this

This didn't become a issue till it was lead on a lash up. I uncoupled the line of reefers and started backing up till it came around the curve billowing smoke out the back like it had a smoke unit at the rear of the tender. It was a sight. unfortunately by the time I kicked the power off the damage was done. The solder tabs were against the axle. That plastic insulator can not be turned around by itself. It was installed wrong. I removed and reinstalled it but the engine is KIA. It did not restart. Board is probably toast. I've been running the 0-8-0 over a month. First time in lash up. I ran this and the Alco S2 and were pretty close in SMPH. I don't think I ran them in reverse till that time. must of been enough in lash up to contact the axle. I've been operating it with the same cars with no issue with just this engine alone. I'm thinking that the rear coupler has a hot feed at all times from the PS3 board. The insulator is installed on MTH's latest 0-8-0 30-1610-1. Will be calling MTH tomorrow.

RJR, We don't know how much the speed difference is based on his description.  We have recommended running uncoupled to determine.  If it is large, there are things that can be done to make sure each engine is operating as designed with in manufacturer tolerances.

 

We can assume how much pushing is being done, but in the end this post becomes a record for others.  Hence telling him things to do.  G

I don't know the real figures for how often the electronics are reading the tach on these MTH locos, and it seems changing the sound files affects the timing so that could mess things up, however the mechanical limitations of the design are really not a factor in precision within about 1/8 Scale mile per hour.  I went into quite a bit of unnecessary detail on this in the other post and you can find it there if you like boring rambling on theory.  

 

If when separated the engines seem to be running quite a bit out of sync I'd check if the difference in speed seems to get larger the faster the engines are moving.  if they stay a steady difference of speed, say 2SMPH no matter how fast they are going, I don't know how to help as it would then be a problem in the programing that is beyond my knowledge.  If, however, the speed difference seems to get bigger as the engines move faster, I'd try replacing the tach tape in the slower engine with one with one less stripe, or...

if you want to get fancy, actually measure a section of track to a scaled distance and time each engine to find which is closest to the correct real speed. (exactly 11 inches travel in 1 second equals 30 Scale Miles Per Hour) Once you know which is closest to the correct speed adjust the tach tape with more or less stripes as needed on the other locomotive.  

 

Edit:

One other thought to check.  Make sure any traction tires are in place and fully recessed in their notches on the wheel.  if the tire is not set properly it could effectively increase the diameter of the wheel and this will "fool" the electronics into thinking the locomotive is traveling slower than it really is.  It's not a huge difference, but a 32nd of an inch change in wheel diameter adds up to almos a tenth of an inch extra travel per turn and if my math is correct, that is almost a mile per hour error at 30 MPH

FYI...

 

It's too long to post here, however, The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition has a section entitled "Speed Control Problems" on pages 170-171 that provides a lot of information regarding speed control problems of DCS engines and how to correct them.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Hi Bill • I am please that you found this video helpful. This video shows the viewer how to set up & operate MTH / DCS Lash-up. With a step by step process, with clear objectives.

Your - Welcome

Gary