Layout Ate My Details

quote:

to fully populate a big layout with details is a long process.

Like a lifetime...Isn't that why we build it big

Where's that "this post is useless without pics" button!
Just kidding with you Eliot. I would love to see your layout. My computer won't play videos. Can you post some pics? Thanks, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Scrapiron Scher:

It's hard to see them unless I walk over to a scene and study it.

I know they make each scene look more realistic...

Eliot

That's exactly what you want, Eliot.

Visitors first see the entire layout. But, then, their eye is drawn to an individual scene where they take a closer look and see all the details.

That's why, big or small, a layout is a collection of individual scenes. A big layout just has more of them. But, even on a small layout, creating these small individual scenes makes it look much larger.

You're at the stage now where you'll be a frequent customer at all the detail vendors. Plus, you can turn your creativity to constructing lots of your own details from scratch - much more economical.

I just had a wood pallet construction evening. I made over 4 dozen of them from pieces of stripwood...and various scenes on the layout easily ate them all the same evening without so much as a burp!




Jim

Jim,

That scene is a killer !!!
I love that scene Wow !

Here is my shot for today.

Jim and Eliot, those are the kind of detailed scenes that make you want to linger over them and determine what makes them work (if you're into model railroading) or just enjoy them (if you're not). Thanks.

Jerrman

That is a highly detailed scene, Eliot!

Eliot and Jim,
The details do make a tremendous difference in the appeal of a layout. As Jim pointed out, each scene tells a story that draws the viewer. I never get tired of seeing photos of the work both of you are doing.

Keep up the good work, and keep sharing it here please!

Many thanks !

Jim and I are from the Bronx.

We had to learn the details early.

Or else.

Right, Jim?

Eliot

...and I was often a slow learner!

Jim

Yeah, it was easier out on suburban Long Island, but there were many fun trips to Yankee Stadium. I'd love to see that on a layout!

quote:

Plus, you can turn your creativity to constructing lots of your own details from scratch - much more economical.

I second Jim's point. There is a lot of wonderful stuff available from our great vendors, but to my taste there is nothing like the satisfaction of making something unique from scratch using inexpensive materials and a little cleverness. A lot of people think they don't have the skill or the time. But nobody is klutzier than I am--it just means that I sometimes have to try it twice. As for time, what's the hurry? Plus, I think that it often takes more time to locate and order an item than it takes to make it from scratch. Try it!

quote:

Originally posted by Scrapiron Scher:
Jim,

That scene is a killer !!!
I love that scene Wow !

Here is my shot for today.

Eliot, I don't see anything!!

Vulcan is my man !

Jim and Eliot, those are great scenes! Love the detail work.

When I hear "hee, hee", I know someone is looking at the interior with the guy sitting on the "john". Does anyone notice that the clock in the restaurant is showing the correct time? After 5 years, no one has mentioned it.

Joe,

I have at least half a dozen details like that which nobody had noticed in over 5 years. Then, one sharp-eyed 6 year old pointed them all out to everyone in about 15 minutes - made my day!

Jim

I think is not an age problem is just height.
AG.

But they noticed your Weathervane high up on top of my coaling tower Andre. [Tower and all structures currently removed awaiting installation on new teeny senior citizen's layout] .

It could be a memory problem.
I know I had those rooftop ventilators . . .
Ummmmmmmmmm . . . .

Eliot

Whew!!! I thought the red John Deere tractor was goin' to show. Anybody, Eliot needs a Green and Yellow John Deere Tractor.

Mike

Jim that scene of your's is just packed full of detail. I was wondering what did you use for the climbing ivy to the left of the freight dock?

Chris,

I just run a bead of full strength white glue and then tamp some Woodland Scenics coarse turf into the glue with my fingers.

Jim

I always find it amazing that scenes which we would consider eyesores in real life look so good on a model railroad!






Jim

These are the kinds of scenes that I love! fantastic job!!! Your guys work really just blows me away!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Scrapiron Scher:
Several weeks ago I ordered a bunch of details from Model Tech Studios.
...The layout ate them up.
It's hard to see them unless I walk over to a scene and study it.

I know they make each scene look more realistic, but wow, to fully populate a big layout with details is a long process.
Eliot

Hi Eliot, If I may suggest, I do not try to "fully populate a [big] layout..." at one time. I don't even plan ahead that far. I take it one scene at a time, just like in real-life. That is, each homeowner and business establishes their own site and the details of that place, including human and animal figures, and the place takes shape as time goes along. Slow down. Don't try to do the whole shebang at once. Consider one element at a time and craft it as fully as possible as items are available at the time of your principal workmanship on it. Then, you afford yourself the enjoyment of finding even more stuff for those scenes later.

If you are interested, on MTJ, I am chronicling a whole layout as it is being crafted by me one scene at a time on a thread entitled "Crafting Louisville." The method I am suggesting you consider, here, is illustrated right there and affords a comfortable approach to tacklng a good-sized layout.

Also, regarding not being able to see all your details from afar, I say, good. That adds interest, as far as I am concerned, for us as well as for visitors, just like in real-life . (Obviously, I agree w/ Jim Policastro wholeheartedly about this.) Let your visitors work for their enjoyment - let them have to search for the many details present for the enjoyment of the discerning eye. I don't "give tours" of my layout.I welcome friends into the trainroom; then, they are on their own. Not to be too cliche' about it, but what they see is what they get. I would be horrified if they could take in all in at once and am happy when they make little discoveries on their own.
For example, in the two scenes I have included here, they just grew as I made them, adding and changing as I explored the spaces and how to execute such small businesses.





Frank
P.S. And I sure don't rush myself to finish a whole layout, which, once it is "finished," I will miss the adventure and challenge of all the craftwork and configuration, and will be sorry when it is done.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Policastro:
Chris,

I just run a bead of full strength white glue and then tamp some Woodland Scenics coarse turf into the glue with my fingers.

Jim

Ahhh ok, thanks Jim it really looks good.

Moonson those are some great scenes.

Fabulous scenes, Frank. Visitors must spend a long time looking at your layout and those details. Are you painting the figures as well?

Jerrman

Thank you, Chris & Thank you, Jerrman. I much appreciate hearing from you, and I really enjoyed the gracious enthusiasm in your messages. Thank you, both; it's very nice receiving the approval of fellow hobbyists.

Before I really found myself getting into detailing the layout, in the late '90s, folks usually stayed in the trainroom for about 20 minutes. That layout included a roundhouse, turntable, and yard, now gone, because few visitors (non-hobby family & friends) showed much interest in it, and I was too busy conversing w/ our guests to operate such a facility. My wife suggested I take it out. It was replaced by this neighborhood,which took quite an enjoyable while to craft.


Now, they usually stay approx. an hour and a half, and that's w/ my wife and I reminding them a buffet awaits upstairs. That's ten trains on ten separate loops, on the overall layout.

Crafting this neighborhood, and the subsequent reaction of visitors to it, convinced me - taught me - that many folks enjoyed seeing more than just trains.


Many of the figures I use are purchased from one source that I know of for them. They are imports from England and Australia and are hand-painted by :
Roy Baker of bakersrailroadshop.com
1-845-887-4596

Frank, I would never have thought it, but taking out a yard, turntable and roundhouse for that great town scene was clearly a great idea! It really struck a chord when you said that non-hobby railroad and friends showed little interest in them and you were too busy to operate them. I'm always assessing how visitors react to various parts of the layout and what interests them. I think you may have confirmed that sometimes we may have some "tunnel vision" (no pun intended) with respect to what makes a layout appealing. Your town shows great planning and offers so much to look at. Many of the houses look scratch built and original. Thanks also for the heads-up on the figure resource. I do know Frank T. Mullen's website but didn't realize his figures came from Baker. I thought I knew most all figure resources, but Baker's portfolio is definitely worth some close study. Much appreciated.

Jerrman

Moonsoon looks incredible, awesome work,are those houses kits or scratch, which ones yours?

quote:

Originally posted by Moonson:
Crafting this neighborhood, and the subsequent reaction of visitors to it, convinced me - taught me - that many folks enjoyed seeing more than just trains.

Ok now that is just a great shot of a great neighborhood. I could stare at those houses for hours. That scene just screams out...a simpler time. A much better choice than the round house and TT IMHO.

Eliot,

In my opinion, in some scenes, less is more.
Sometimes you need to resist the urge to continue to add more items to a scene as it can diminish the scene with to much clutter. This can be true with trees, grass, cars, Track, etc.

Moonson,
The photo of the three steamers rounding the turn looks so incredibly real that I feel like I'm looking out a window looking down on the scene. You've done a fantastic job of blending all of the details to make such a convincing scene. It is this blend that makes a scene look absolutely real.

Guys like you, Jim P., Eliot and SIRT (among many others) inspire me to try a bit harder. My original plan was 3 loops on indoor outdoor carpet. Now, I'm working on a lower station platform, mountain, farm area and elevated loop with a town.

Thanks for more inspiration!

quote:

Originally posted by Jerrman:
... I do know Frank T. Mullen's website but didn't realize his figures came from Baker. I thought I knew most all figure resources, but Baker's portfolio is definitely worth some close study. Much appreciated.
Jerrman

Hi Jerrman, Thanks again for your generous reply. I'm glad you found something useful in my replies, here, to Eliot's inquiry.

When I emplaced the turntable, it meant cutting a good-sized hole in the layout. Knowing I was new (1994-95) to our hobby and that my tastes and interests might change as I explored all the resources and paraphenalia available, I saved that piece. I am very glad I did.

When my wife, who always accompanies our guests around the train room, made the suggestion during one of our "debriefing" sessions after guests left, gesturing over the whole yard/turntable/roundhouse feature, "Get rid of this. Nobody pays it any attention. Put something else there," I stripped the layout in that section and replaced the missing piece of plywood cut out for the turntable.

Then, I commenced work on that neighborhood.

Frank
P.S. May I ask, who is Frank T. Mullen you mentioned?

quote:

In my opinion, in some scenes, less is more.
Sometimes you need to resist the urge to continue to add more items to a scene as it can diminish the scene with to much clutter. This can be true with trees, grass, cars, Track, etc.

This is an interesting topic. My take on it is that there is more than one kind of "more". I completely agree that cramming more and more "stuff" into a limited space usually leads to disaster. But, adding more and more detail is a different matter. Continuing to develop the interest of a scene by adding ever more subtle detail at finer and finer scales is a process that I think can go on forever. Crowding adds clutter; detail adds interest.

quote:

Originally posted by cagacazzo:
Moonsoon looks incredible, awesome work,are those houses kits or scratch, which ones yours?

Thank you very, very much, Cagacazzo.
My entire layout has become a mixture of kits, commissions, and scratch-builts; even some Dept.56 (several churches.)I never had any intention of crafting the whole layout board-by-board because I was very excited (perhaps, like Eliot) to get the real estate progressing along; however, I wanted it accomplished in months, not years, to provide those beautiful trains w/ an environment that enriched the experience of seeing them run.

So, eager to be able to run some trains and have friends come to my house to play, a huge joy serendipitously became discovering the work of other craftsmen at model train shows and meets. In fact, I came to enjoy making such purchases, and even giving some commissions, as much as buying trains/rolling stock. There have been some wonderful craftsmen out there, through the years. I consider myself lucky to have bought from them when I did; many are gone, now.

I don't want to take up too much space here on Eliots thread, so let me draw your attention to just two such commissions. The angular, grey-n-white, modern house in photos 1 & 3 is an exact model of our actual home, crafted by Reid Artim, as a gift to us from a dear friend and neighbor. Secondly, the tall beige-&-white house w/the wonderful front-porch is an exact replica of Alan Graziano's (the tankboss) mother's house, crafted by him for me at my enthusiastic request.

And Eliot, I crafted that neighborhood one homestead at a time, taking my time, and adding details as I was able to buy them. When Chris says the neighborhood has a feel that appeals to him and holds his attention (Thank you very much, Chris,) I feel my efforts have been fruitful. Yet, a visitor still has to stretch his/her neck a little and focus on each part of the whole to get the full effect.
Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Avanti:

quote:

In my opinion, in some scenes, less is more...

... Crowding adds clutter; detail adds interest.

Here is some wisdom, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Trainfun:
Moonson,
The photo of the three steamers rounding the turn looks so incredibly real that I feel like I'm looking out a window looking down on the scene. You've done a fantastic job of blending all of the details to make such a convincing scene. It is this blend that makes a scene look absolutely real.

Guys like you, Jim P., Eliot and SIRT (among many others) inspire me ..Thanks for more inspiration!

What a pleasant, beautiful thing to say to another hobbist, Trainfun. And getting mentioned in the same paragraph as Jim Poliastro, Eliot, and SIRT is a real thrill because I pour over their work every opportunity, saving every photo they have shared w/ us. They inspire me.

I think what it is that I do is that blending you so kindly observed. When I "sketch" a scene out in my minds' eye, ahead and while I am executing a scene, I feel I am making a conversation among all its elements. That is, I do not just stick a figure down just to have one present. I do not stick a tree in because it might be nice to have a tree there. Instead, in my imagination, the figures are in conversation - in a relationship w/ each other - even if one of them is standing alone around the corner of a building; they are in a narrative "conversation" which explains that place, in an imaginary time and space, along w/ the buildings and vehicle(s) nearby, and even including the foliage (or lack of it.) And that site is in narrative conversation w/ the entire layout. The scenes are crafted separately, but they are part of a whole story, each element relating to the other in a tapestry suggesting life. IMHO.

More such "conversations" are pictured here, crafted as imagination moved me, viewable intimately, Eliot, only from close inspection, not from afar necessarily:



Frank, Moon's son.