Learning to Run the Trains

Just keep having fun! That's the most important part.

You'll generally find that backing stuff up is a lot more twitchy than running with the locomotive pulling it.  I'm still learning the paths through the Ross Double-Slip Switches, I occasionally set them wrong for the path intended and boom, another derailment!

Ironic, that unlike most things in life getting the lead OUT is usually a good thing, adding a bit of lead to train cars is often helpful .  In my opinion, the most important things are to take your time, do your best, and enjoy the ride.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You'll generally find that backing stuff up is a lot more twitchy than running with the locomotive pulling it.  I'm still learning the paths through the Ross Double-Slip Switches, I occasionally set them wrong for the path intended and boom, another derailment!

Yes... to every word.  The backing up seems to be related to weight as does the 2.2% graded curve (O-54)... the string effect on the light rolling stock lifts the wheels off the outside rail once there are around nine or ten cars in the consist.  I stuck some steel bar in a few of them and it seems to have ended that issue.  The paths!  Oh Yes!  the paths.

Something doesn't compute.  16 feet of train and small layout.  There are two chances i could run a 16 foot train, slim and none.

@necrails posted:

Something doesn't compute.  16 feet of train and small layout.  There are two chances i could run a 16 foot train, slim and none.

Doubtless, you'd have more difficulty running this one.

Well, John gave me a kick in the pants so I just did 27 fully Die Cast bodied cars... 1 box, 3 hoppers, 8 ore and 15 tank (plus a fairly heavy but not die cast caboose) ...yanked them up the grade forward and then pushed them up the grade backwards with the Lionmaster Big Boy.   They all followed through the divergent tortoises in reverse and straight through with switch in divergent position (non-derail spring loaded) without issue.  So, without going to crazy I've got a pretty good idea about how much weight to add to the light rolling stock.  I know there is a formula... but, I'm not a scale guy.  I think I've another dozen or so die cast cars but this is close enough.

Dennis, that's some great progress.  Glad you're making time to play.

If you're interested in car weights recommended by the National Model Railroaders Association, here is a helpful link:

https://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

I weigh them to standard weights, for a 10" boxcar, that's just about a pound total weight.

Well learning is all part of the fun.

Won an eBay auction for 50 1lbs lead ingots.  I'll whack some of them with a chisel to split them into two and quarter a few... then, spray paint them before placing.

It's easier if they're smaller pieces.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I had expected to be adding scenery and accessories to my new layout by now but ran into some issues... like, becoming proficient at running the trains.  I've gotten much better at throwing switches in a timely manner (getting use to the tortoises) but remembering to throw them back to the through position is still lacking.  With a small layout the length of the train is important.  I recently put 42' of train together and while entertaining it certainly wasn't practical.  16' of train is my practical limitation that allows utilization of all reversing loops, crossovers and switching.  Which cars can (and cannot) back up through a divergent switch path is another issue... it looks like 50lbs of lead is in my future.

There are many more issues that I have to deal with before I can start modelling in earnest, I hope I live long enough.   It has been 30 years since my last build and 25 since my last permanent layout... I've a lot of catching up to do.

Cheers!

Don't feel bad, I am sort of in the same boat. I was looking at the dz1008 relay wiring diagram and I was like "Why does that have a wire labelled "track power" .....(like, duh, you are wiring the frog so engines don't stall, not gonna put 14v power continuous there)...... just wait until I have to figure out programming engines into the legacy and dcs controller, going to be a laugh riot...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's easier if they're smaller pieces.

Of course!  But why in the world would I do anything easy?  I looked at the smaller stuff but it was all variable... not like 1/4 or 1/2 lb.  I liked the consistency and shape of the pounders and I've worked with them before... 1 whack halved ...two more whacks quartered.  With a sharp chisel it's very fast and uniform.  Who knows. I may even just drop pounders in the bigger rolling stock.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

Who knows. I may even just drop pounders in the bigger rolling stock.

I suggest learning about coupler repair and MU configurations for your locomotives so you can pull those heavy cars and keep the consist together!

@bigkid posted:

Don't feel bad, I am sort of in the same boat. I was looking at the dz1008 relay wiring diagram and I was like "Why does that have a wire labelled "track power" .....(like, duh, you are wiring the frog so engines don't stall, not gonna put 14v power continuous there)...... just wait until I have to figure out programming engines into the legacy and dcs controller, going to be a laugh riot...

OH!  I don't feel bad.  Just STUPID!   But, I'm used to that... I'll have been married 39 years on July 1 ...do you have any idea how many times my thoughts and actions have been called into question?  Lord, help me!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I suggest learning about coupler repair and MU configurations for your locomotives so you can pull those heavy cars and keep the consist together!

EXACTLY!!!!!

The couplers are rearing their ugly heads for sure... they are much less of a problem @ 22 cars rather than 28.  I rubber banded a few until I can wrap my head around that issue.  So much to learn and so little time... I feel like I'm sprinting the marathon!

Light cars in the back, heavy cars in the front.

I get that... but, what happens when I back up?  The light cars do not handle switches very well especially if I forget to position it correctly the light cars do not seem to be able to trigger the spring loaded non-derail feature of the tortoise.  All issues seem to beget yet more issues...?  This calls for a Manhattan!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

OH!  I don't feel bad.  Just STUPID!   But, I'm used to that... I'll have been married 39 years on July 1 ...do you have any idea how many times my thoughts and actions have been called into question?  Lord, help me!

Comes with the territory, been marred 33 years this month, been together since like Christmas, 1982, so yep, I do know

I'm so glad I logged in and found this thread...this is the 1st I've heard about weighting cars...this possibly explains my derailment issues with certain cars.  Gonna buy a scale and check them all...thank you guys!

CHEERS!!!!

The Maraschino Cherries sunk to the Bottom... More Issues!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I get that... but, what happens when I back up?  The light cars do not handle switches very well especially if I forget to position it correctly

They ain't gonna' handle it any better at the front of the train, just cause more problems.  The sad fact is, you will have difficulty backing up a 50 car train many times, especially through switches.  I put together a 54 car tank train and it worked fine and backed up well too.  Then I did the same thing with boxcars, and it didn't go nearly as well when backing up.

The die cast rolling stock performed beautifully through the switches... forward and backward (even when I forgot to position the switch correctly).   Are your box cars weighted?  I bought the lead primarily for the box cars and hoppers... do you think it a fool's errand?  Also, I imagine 25 to 30 cars would be my absolute limit.

Having all the cars weighted properly is a good thing, just don't overdo it.  The NMRA standards for O-scale is 5 oz + 1 oz for each inch of length.  So, a 10" boxcar should weigh 15oz.

Remember, if you get carried away with weight, you put more strain on the couplers, not to mention any grades will be a bigger challenge for your locomotives with a long consist.

Thanks John!   If y'all haven't noticed yet... I'm a bit of a bull in a china shop.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

Thanks John!   If y'all haven't noticed yet... I'm a bit of a bull in a china shop.

Sure, but at least you can get where you're going, you just have to worry about the carnage behind you!

You will get the hang of it, Dennis.  I just got a long train for my layout rolling in May before I needed to take a hiatus for back surgery.  After one glitch of a car derailing, the train has run fine ever since.  Knock on wood.  Yes, the die cast cars are in the front and the grades are approximately 4%.  I ran the train around the layout in reverse once and was amazed it make it without a hiccup.  Probably one of those things, I'll never to be able to replicate. 

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I had expected to be adding scenery and accessories to my new layout by now but ran into some issues... like, becoming proficient at running the trains.

Dennis,

My experience is that every model railroad requires some time in which to learn the techniques for best train operation. Whether it's throwing switches, lengths of trains, which locomotive to use on what track, you will become familiar with the layout and run it better...

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Dennis,

My experience is that every model railroad requires some time in which to learn the techniques for best train operation. Whether it's throwing switches, lengths of trains, which locomotive to use on what track, you will become familiar with the layout and run it better...

MELGAR

Thanks Melgar!    Scenery & Structures are probably on hold until 22 unless I am able to spend a lot more time in the train room.

Mel, that is some great advice.  Obviously the train I showed in the video is not what I will run normally, but was fun to get going.  In a small room, I have short sidings, and as most of us way more engines and cars than I have room for on the layout.  Switching out trains and switching cars onto and off sidings should prove to be fun as those of us with new layouts will find out.

Dennis, I forgot to state that I worked out some of the kinks in the mainline and associated switches just running different engines by themselves or running a long car through by hand.  I was tired, but couldn't sleep when I wrote in the wee hours of the morning.    You made great progress on your layout and as you state a lot of what I have planned next will come in '22.

Its the command systems, both DCS and Legacy, that continue, after decades to challenge me. I think I am one of those guys who prefers "to get things moving along" rather than figuring out the nuances of the systems. I loathe staring at remote screens programming features...and then having do it again because of some technical glitch.

If you really want a challenge install a couple of 45 degree crossings and run a couple of trains at once (assuming you're in command mode).

@Paul Kallus posted:

If you really want a challenge install a couple of 45 degree crossings and run a couple of trains at once (assuming you're in command mode).

Right On Paul.   In conventional I can control the trains and watch them simultaneously.... I have not been able to accomplish that in command.  The constant back and forth eye motion from train to searching the remote for train selection coupled with my inability to use the remote with one hand has thus far proven difficult for me.  It's rather like driving and texting... outcomes may be unpredictable.  I don't plan on doing much with the layout until I've achieved some low level mastery of the 'system'... we will see where I am in a few months.

FWIW, On my walk around wall mounted RR,  about 80 of my  2 rail Atlas,  Roco & Signature or 3 rail Ross  turnouts have neither a motor, spring or hand throw.  The points just float.  Any wheel is able to correctly align the points when coming against closed points and a flick of the finger positions the routing  as desired when approaching the tip of the points.

Following the trains, maneuvering around peninsulas and door ways is actually good exercise as opposed to sitting behind a control panel.

Either forward or backing,  problems are extremely rare, I believe there may have been three derailments in the last few years.  Curves are 60" & 72" radius and grades are about +/- 1%.   My 3 rail Triplex threw a couple of tire treads but it did not seem to affect it's pulling power.  I do run short trains usually about a dozen cars max.  Short trains make my layout seem larger than it is.

For weight I use stick on automotive wheel balancing weights,  I also have some thin sheets of lead which can be used on flat cars.  Some used tank & hopper cars came preweighted with lead buck or OO glued inside the under frame channel.

There was one engine which would pick points with it's pilot wheel but GRJ diagnosed it as a collapsed broken pilot spring which failed to exert downward pressure in the rail head.  GRJ replaced it with a new spring and it now runs flawlessly.

John is the man !