Lionel 28069 Problem Solved!

Given that these gears are NLA from Lionel this is good news. Did you have to send the gears from your engine to NWSL for them to determine correct replacements?

Pete

Ordered new gears from Lionel and counter shafts, and sent them to NWSL. New gears are being cut from some sort of superior plastic. My wallet is now sore, set up cost was quite expensive. But I want to pull more than four cars, shouldn't be too much to ask from Lionel. My EM1 is next.

Please keep us updated on this gear replacement project. This topic has been discussed before and several members have expressed an interest in replacement gears for this locomotive.   Earl G.

I will let you know how everything goes. Haven't got the new gears yet. Dave at NWSL is sending the new gears I bought from Lionel along with the gears they are making as replacements. When I talked with him on the phone, I explored the possibility of ordering extra gears rather than pay the set up fees. Thought maybe I could sell them to help defray the set up cost. That idea did not float well.

Funny that only the Lionel Niagara seems to have this issue. I don't know about "underengineering", but I have never heard of any of their other locos doing this. You mention the EM-1 - I do not have it and know nothing of its reputation.

I have the Lionel Niagara, and it had indeed been a bothersome loco, but the gears seem fine. However, my driveshaft split on it, and I fixed it with brass tubing that fit precisely over the split piece. Then the motherboard failed...smoke is meh...eccentric rod rivet failed...

Certainly not all Lionel Niagaras have eaten their gears, I can only presume, but it is a definite problem with many of them.

Other Lionel steamers do not seem to be "underengineered". One assumes. I've run many of them.

An annoying situation - another reason that Lionel should re-issue the Niagara soon with all issues loudly addressed to exorcise its reputation's demons.

The Niagara gears in the gearbox were supposedly designed to be the weak point of the drivetrain. Pull too much weight, break the gears. I don't think that eight Vanderbilt cars would be considered too much weight, then again the gears broke. The EM1 came from the factory with a driveshaft that was ill designed. The end cup was press fit on one end and cross drilled and pinned on the other. Lionel sells a replacement shaft that is drilled and pinned on both ends for $20.00. One would think when you spend $1200.00 for an engine the new owner would get to run it for months instead of hours without a breakdown. Both engines lasted about two hours, then broke.

I have a new Niagara (Century Club 2) that's never been on the track. Would you reccommend that I get these parts just in case I ever sell this engine?  To me, it looks similar to the N&W J, the 3751 4-8-4 ATSF NORTHERN, and other 4-8-4's..844, etc.....Its certainly a Beautiful Locomotive....Your thoughts wanted....Happy Thanksgiving....

At $75.00 per gear set up charge, then $10.00 per gear production charge, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Great looking engine. Runs good with a small load. Got a chuff switch installed and upgraded 18 ohm smoke unit. Waiting for better gears, then this engine will earn it's salt on my layout.

You got me curious on why NWSL discouraged you from buying extra gears to spread the cost. I know of two others besides myself who would be interested in buying them.

Besides the U joint and gears the other weak item is the deck apron. Its diecast and breaks easily. The pivot is in the wrong location which should be on the same plane as the deck itself. Instead is a 1/4" below that so the deck cannot rise above horizontal. If you lift the tender before lifting the engine the force will break the apron. Also running on rough track or on grades with sharp transitions can cause the tender to hit the apron. Any small force will shatter the deck. You can break it between your fingers. 

If you do want to run your engine you would be better off leaving the deck down, not resting on the tender deck.

Pete

I've seen a post on remaking the apron from brass. I removed it from my engine since it was a pita to put in place when putting the engine/tender on the track. The guy at NWSL changed his story when I decided to order more gears to sell here. I thought why pay $75.00 set up fee per gear, and then $10.00 per gear every time? So I told him I wanted six of each. Then was told it would cost $75.00 set up fee for each and every gear. I'm still waiting for the turnip truck to show up, so I can get back on. And by the way, I was pushed!

So you're saying it would cost anyone $85 per gear! I guess its plan B for me. 

Pete

You are absolutely right, $85.00 per gear, times two. If I remember correctly, I bought replacement gears from Lionel for 10 or 12 bucks each, plus shipping. But the stock gears are junk. Lots of guys on here have broken gears in this engine. I thought I might help others and cut my cost down. That was not to be. The eight ball ain't in the pocket yet. I'll find someone with some business sense.

I was going to do the same thing you did but by the time I got around to ordering the gears from Lima, they were sold out. I would have prefered to buy a set of gears rather than take my engine apart to remove the gears, especially since mine haven't broken yet.

I am hoping I can find a source for them ready made, even if its just close I can modify them to fit.

NWSL must cut them on manual machines rather than CNC equipment if he charges a setup for every gear he makes.

btw I think delrin can be 3D printed. This might be a better way to mass produce them.

Pete

I bought them from Lima, since Lionel no longer stocks them. They now have both gears in stock. I bought them to use as a template for new gears. I'm looking to find a solution, not a compromise. Always bought and ran Lionel, always will.

So, a metal drive shaft is recommended? Also steel gears are recommended? If someone would send me an email to the best supplier for these needed parts, or a phone number, or email, I would be Very Grateful. Thank You...

Getting high tech plastic gears made. Brass will not work with a brass countershaft. The result would be powdered brass. The mention of the driveshaft was in relation to the Lionel EM1. I'm going to find a reasonable cost solution to this problem.

That is a good looking engine.  I am thinking what a great locomotive that would be done in Legacy.  Some good electronics and good gears.  The current Lionel people will do it right this time and add whistle smoke also.

I posted this a few years ago. The SDP U Joint is is what I am running in my engine. Since then I found an all metal solution on the auction site that shall not be named. Just search on 4 mm Universal Joint and you will see them. You need two. Just make sure they are 4mm to 4mm. Some are 4mm to some other size. The pair would be coupled togther with a piece of 4 mm rod. I and friend picked up a pair and will use if needed but I am confident the SDP part will work. Had I found the all metal ones first those would be in the engine now.

https://ogrforum.com/t...l-nyc-niagara-owners

Duke, when did you order your gears from North Lima? I tried about 8 months ago and was told they are NLA From them. I know Lionel has been out of stock for years. North Lima indicates they are in stock now, at least they don't say NLA but I am not confident their website is correct And heavens forbid you try and call or email them.

Pete

I ordered my gears from Lima about a month ago. I did shoot them an email first to make sure they had both gears. They now do have both gears. But since the Niagara is such a treat to take apart, I'm going to make sure I replace the stock gears with something that can handle pulling a load. I also bought the 4mm u joints from that unnameable auction site.

I just checked the 4mm u joints that I bought from a not mentioned auction site. They are 23.8mm long. The ones used to replace the Lionel plastic u joints in the above link are 37mm in length. I wonder if the ones I have will work without modification. I bought eight of them because I also have to repair my EM1 Lionel # 6-28051. Also nice to have extra parts for future repairs.

The one that came with the engine is closer to 44-45mm. The metal joints might have to be shortened some but not much. You could probably chuck them in a drill motor and hold a file next to one end.

Pete

Just what I was thinking. Join two together after shortening both first. If left as is, length would be 47.6mm. Thanks for the support.

An update: I purchased two gears for my Lionel 6-28069 Century Club 11 Niagara. The cost was $5.00 each, plus $9.00 shipping. They have both gears in stock. Part numbers are 620 806 9506,  and 620 806 9507. Still gonna run the better gears from NWSL, and save the stock gears for a template.