Lionel 6-32930 ZW Multi-Watt Transformer with 2 180 Watt Power Bricks set

Joe,

This unit occasionally has ISSUES with the operation on LEGACY! Look at past POSTS on that issue!!

Fredstrains

For every person who has issues with them, you will find at least that many people who have had no problems with them. I am going on about 8 years and have had ZERO problems running Legacy and/or TMCC with two ZW-C's and six 180-watt bricks on my 13' by 22' six-loop layout.

There was an upgrade PROM for the ZW-C to correct issues with Legacy operation.  I don't know if it's available any longer, but that's one issue you may run across.

Thanks for the replys! So, what types of issues? I'll look for the past posts & decide. At the very least, the 2-180 bricks could be used as John has suggested. I would just need the molex connectors, correct?

Couldn't find any posts outlining problems with Legacy. Can anyone help?

Thanks again!

There were reports on the issue, but most of them do not disclose the issue. I don’t recall if I’ve ever read a complete description, but seems like it was also not affecting all ZW-Cs. One might assume that some of them were already updated. I think Lionel is still able to program a chip. You might call them.

Most recent thread on the topic: zw-c with 180 bricks update

Mike

So just to be clear & I'm sorry for being a little dense. At the very least, I shouldn't have any problem if I only hook up the 2 bricks to my DCS/Legacy set up.

Thanks,

Joe

I have a nice ZW-C, with the 2 —180 watt power houses with the new Legacy upgrade module board and it can be yours. I have the box, instructions, etc..If interested let me know, my email is in my profile. It’s great.  I also have an extra module board for anyone that needs one $22. There is a thread concerning this Legacy issue on the forum.  

What's a module board?

Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Most recent thread on the topic: zw-c with 180 bricks update

 Mike

The Lionel website shows the chip as unavailable.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...;submitButton=Search

Oh, just for the record, I personally do NOT recommend using this transformer to turn off and on and off and on for Conventional uses. It’s great for Command Performance use. It’s a great transformer for Command.   

ironman1 posted:

So just to be clear & I'm sorry for being a little dense. At the very least, I shouldn't have any problem if I only hook up the 2 bricks to my DCS/Legacy set up.

Thanks,

Joe

I have two PH-180s feeding my TIU FXD 1 & FXD 2 inputs and their outputs go to two loops of track on my layout, works great. Then I just hooked Legacy wire to the common outputs on the TIU when I added my Legacy system.

I got adapters from C.T. McCormick, they are called PH-TIU and are on their Lionel TMCC & Power page (might not be the exact web site name/section, but close). They have the molex PH-180 connector on one end and banana plugs on the other, ready to go. Or I think GRJ has the part numbers for proper molex connectors and I think he's also posted them here a few times before. 

leapinlarry posted:

Oh, just for the record, I personally do NOT recommend using this transformer to turn off and on and off and on for Conventional uses. It’s great for Command Performance use. It’s a great transformer for Command.   

If you are using the levers as Larry states, I agree.  But keep in mind that this transformer has four built in Track power controllers so it will do a great job if you would like to run conventional using the CAB 1 or CAB 2 controllers to control power to up to four tracks independently.  Using the horn and bell button on the remote operates those functions well.

I have had one for over 15 years with now issues.  I love mine!

Good luck on your decision,

Don

Hi LEAPINLARRY,

Thanks for the offer. I already committed to a transformer set. I would like the extra board though, just in case. I will contact you later for the details.

Thank you,

Joe

I have the zw-c since it first came out. It's a good transformer. I believe if you contact Dean at Lionel, they can make you a new chip. As for the handles, the original zw-c has plastic plates which held them in place. Lionel made metal ones to replace the plastic ones. With these two upgrades it's been a reliable transformer. The later models came with the metal plates.

The chip is not available and won’t be, I already confirmed this with Lionel this year as I had the random shutdown issue when the antenna was seeing a legacy signal.  

So mine did have the issue and is not fixable.  Luckily I am using that transformer for just accessories, so I just disconnected the antenna inside it.  Also, only people running Legacy would see the issue as it’s the Legacy signal that causes it to shutdown the transformer.  

If you want a top notch, powerful, solid transformer why not get something new and under warranty the ZW-L

So I wonder if the chip is copy protected...

cjack posted:

So I wonder if the chip is copy protected...

Everything I've ever looked at from Lionel was locked so you couldn't read it.  I have the equipment to program most of the chips they use, but without the program files, it's not possible to duplicate them.

Since I'm waiting to receive the Lionel ZW-C, how would I know if it has the updated module without actually testing it? Is there a visual indication inside, possibly the replacement aluminum brackets that hold the potentiometer in place?

The updated chip looks like this...

...from replacement parts-unavailable.

Thank you.

ironman1 posted:

Thank you.

I bought the chip back when I first heard about the issue. I really like the ZW-C because I can power it up with the B and C outputs at full 18 vac for Legacy. The ZW-L has to be dialed up every time you repower the transformer. That can happen a lot when 5 folks are running trains at the same time. I just hit the wifi switch on the power cord and power it off and on, and it's at 18 vac.  Whoever designed the ZW-L doesn't use the transformer. Since I have the chip, maybe I need to buy another C for backup

Chuck, I’m not sure I understand your comment on the ZWL has to be dialed up each time you repower the unit.  I leave my ZWL handles set in position at the desired voltage for each one, and just turn off the surge protector it’s plugged into.  Next time I push the on switch on the SP, the ZWL powers up at the previously set voltage.  Don’t need to touch the handles.  Is this what you meant?

That's news. I was led to believe that when you power up the ZW-L (in Legacy or TMCC), you have to turn the red dial which advances the voltage to the set point of the levers.

So you're saying that if you set the B and C levers to max, and power off the transformer, then turn it back on, the B and C outputs will go immediately to the max voltage? That is good to know. Is that the same for the A and D outputs? The ZW-C outputs A and D have to be dialed back up for this on and off and on operation.

The manual is not helpful as best I can scan it.

cjack posted:

That's news. I was led to believe that when you power up the ZW-L (in Legacy or TMCC), you have to turn the red dial which advances the voltage to the set point of the levers.

So you're saying that if you set the B and C levers to max, and power off the transformer, then turn it back on, the B and C outputs will go immediately to the max voltage? That is good to know. Is that the same for the A and D outputs? The ZW-C outputs A and D have to be dialed back up for this on and off and on operation.

The manual is not helpful as best I can scan it.

Yes, A,B,C,D, hold their setting on power down/up.  There are a number of methods of operation that can be programmed into the ZWL for Conventional, Cab1, Cab-L and Cab2/Legacy interface that I personally don’t use because all my engines are Legacy.  So for me it’s turn on SP, Cab2 and gofor it.

Well, Lionel sent me the upgrade module, with dark letters. Pictures are The one with the white background with black bold letters came out of my ZW-C.  Well, the question could be, is it really a correct one to? 

My original ZW-C chip was labeled ZWC 06. I replaced it with the one S01-HEX.

TedW posted:

cjack posted:

That's news. I was led to believe that when you power up the ZW-L (in Legacy or TMCC), you have to turn the red dial which advances the voltage to the set point of the levers.

So you're saying that if you set the B and C levers to max, and power off the transformer, then turn it back on, the B and C outputs will go immediately to the max voltage? That is good to know. Is that the same for the A and D outputs? The ZW-C outputs A and D have to be dialed back up for this on and off and on operation.

The manual is not helpful as best I can scan it.

Yes, A,B,C,D, hold their setting on power down/up.  There are a number of methods of operation that can be programmed into the ZWL for Conventional, Cab1, Cab-L and Cab2/Legacy interface that I personally don’t use because all my engines are Legacy.  So for me it’s turn on SP, Cab2 and gofor it.

Ted, thank you very much for the info.

What happens in Legacy to the outputs when turning off and on?

Also, when in conventional, what happens when you press the all stop triangle on the Legacy remote. Do the voltages go to zero as well as stop the engines?

guys I have to chime in here to clear up a few things. first the main eprom chip is available from lionel you just have to call to order as they are made to order. I just got one last month for another zwc I bought.

second if you buy a used one take the case top off its just 4 screws. check the chip and see if its got the correct code. should look like the one cjack posted.

third look under the potentiometer pots and see if the bottom bracket is plastic or metal. not all zwc's have the plastic bracket some came with the metal bracket. on the later production runs the plastic brakets were changed to the metal ones. if it has the plastic ones just order the metal ones from lionel. you will need two they are $14 each.

to relpace the plastic brakets remove the potentiometer brackets being carefull as these also can have a problem at the screw mounts. they are easy to crack. If they are cracked they wont hold down well and the gears can slip when the handles are moved.

to fix this issue I have taken some small metric washers and put them on with the screws when reattaching the brackets. if the bracket is really cracked bad at the screw holes. I just used my dremel and shaped the plastic so I could super glue a small piece of round plastic with a small hole drilled for the size of the screw. I just tryed to match the non broken screw brackets as best I could with the new plastic homemade piece. letting the glue dry good when attaching the homemade plastic piece. I also  put the tiny washers on every screw that screws down the potentiometer brackets to help hold the brackets better.

then for the last step and to ensure a secure hold for the potentiometer brackets I purchased some jb welled putty for plastics. this is a putty and you can take off whatever amount you need and roll it into a ball to activate it. place a small amount of this putty over each place where the bracket is screwed down. being carfull to get it over each screw and pushed onto the plastic bracket so it gets a hold at these 4 locations. once this hardens and is set and dry it holds the potentiometer brackets quite well at each screw location. better than new I truly belive. 

last and very important step. after getting the brackets fixed make sure you do a recalibration of all four handels. the instuction manual tell how to to do this. it is really easy.

as stated above if you plan to use this for convetional running and are moving the handles quite a lot this may not be the zw for you. if you are planning to run in command or use your cab2 to control the voltage using the built in powermasters to run convetional via the cab2. this may be the zw for you. I now have two of these and I love them.

I run command only though so the fix I did to the potentiometer brackets and replacing the plastic base brackets to metal ones fixed the issues altogether now all is fine for me. after my fix I have had no problems with any of the handels or slipping of the gears by the way when moving the handles. also to note I dont slam the handles back and forth either. 

when buying a used one on ebay just remember to figure in the cost of the new replacement chip and the two metal brackets from lionel the price is around $50 for the these new parts. these are needed and can not be avoided. so keep these parts and there price in mind when bidding on a used one. I luckily got my replacment parts during the lionel half price parts sale. also I got my zwc's for less than $200 each.

I now have two zwc's. one with two 180 bricks and one with two 135 bricks. since I already have two 135 bricks I got years ago. I just need two more 180 bricks to complete my power needs. the cost of the two zwc's with bricks and the cost of the two extra 180 bricks I will need is just a little less than one zw-l. I will then have 720 watts of track power and four accessory handles at 135 watts each. not a bad deal in my opion. 

one last note go to youtube and on the lionel customer sevice channel mike reagan did a video on these. please watch the video there is a lot of usefull infomation on there.  good luck. any questions you can email me and I will be glad to help out. hope this helps. roger

Thanks everyone for the info. I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.
Joe

At one time I was looking into having the pot bracket made. The vertical plastic piece. Unfortunately, I got busy with something else..

maybe, somewith a plastic someone with a plastic printer and some cad skills can design a better piece at the screw holes.

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

guys I have to chime in here to clear up a few things. first the main eprom chip is available from lionel you just have to call to order as they are made to order. I just got one last month for another zwc I bought.

second if you buy a used one take the case top off its just 4 screws. check the chip and see if its got the correct code. should look like the one cjack posted.

third look under the potentiometer pots and see if the bottom bracket is plastic or metal. not all zwc's have the plastic bracket some came with the metal bracket. on the later production runs the plastic brakets were changed to the metal ones. if it has the plastic ones just order the metal ones from lionel. you will need two they are $14 each.

to relpace the plastic brakets remove the potentiometer brackets being carefull as these also can have a problem at the screw mounts. they are easy to crack. If they are cracked they wont hold down well and the gears can slip when the handles are moved.

to fix this issue I have taken some small metric washers and put them on with the screws when reattaching the brackets. if the bracket is really cracked bad at the screw holes. I just used my dremel and shaped the plastic so I could super glue a small piece of round plastic with a small hole drilled for the size of the screw. I just tryed to match the non broken screw brackets as best I could with the new plastic homemade piece. letting the glue dry good when attaching the homemade plastic piece. I also  put the tiny washers on every screw that screws down the potentiometer brackets to help hold the brackets better.

then for the last step and to ensure a secure hold for the potentiometer brackets I purchased some jb welled putty for plastics. this is a putty and you can take off whatever amount you need and roll it into a ball to activate it. place a small amount of this putty over each place where the bracket is screwed down. being carfull to get it over each screw and pushed onto the plastic bracket so it gets a hold at these 4 locations. once this hardens and is set and dry it holds the potentiometer brackets quite well at each screw location. better than new I truly belive. 

last and very important step. after getting the brackets fixed make sure you do a recalibration of all four handels. the instuction manual tell how to to do this. it is really easy.

as stated above if you plan to use this for convetional running and are moving the handles quite a lot this may not be the zw for you. if you are planning to run in command or use your cab2 to control the voltage using the built in powermasters to run convetional via the cab2. this may be the zw for you. I now have two of these and I love them.

I run command only though so the fix I did to the potentiometer brackets and replacing the plastic base brackets to metal ones fixed the issues altogether now all is fine for me. after my fix I have had no problems with any of the handels or slipping of the gears by the way when moving the handles. also to note I dont slam the handles back and forth either. 

when buying a used one on ebay just remember to figure in the cost of the new replacement chip and the two metal brackets from lionel the price is around $50 for the these new parts. these are needed and can not be avoided. so keep these parts and there price in mind when bidding on a used one. I luckily got my replacment parts during the lionel half price parts sale. also I got my zwc's for less than $200 each.

I now have two zwc's. one with two 180 bricks and one with two 135 bricks. since I already have two 135 bricks I got years ago. I just need two more 180 bricks to complete my power needs. the cost of the two zwc's with bricks and the cost of the two extra 180 bricks I will need is just a little less than one zw-l. I will then have 720 watts of track power and four accessory handles at 135 watts each. not a bad deal in my opion. 

one last note go to youtube and on the lionel customer sevice channel mike reagan did a video on these. please watch the video there is a lot of usefull infomation on there.  good luck. any questions you can email me and I will be glad to help out. hope this helps. roger

 

 

Hi,  Can you please post the name of the person you talked to or a receipt so we can see what you ordered, because Lionel told me about 3 months ago these chips are not available anymore.  So I am not sure why they told me no, but you say you got one a month ago.

I don't understand the whole ZW and Z-4000 "thing" for anyone running DCS, TMCC or Legacy. We see those neat-looking handles and rational thought seems to go out the window. Those handles just drag us in like dopes. The whole advantage of the command systems is the ability to walk around. So why oh why do we want manually operated handles on a 20 pound transformer attached to our genuine imitation CTC control console? Is it too much walking?

I run the 12 blocks on my DCS layout with 12 180W Lionel bricks through 3 TIUs with all outputs set to FIXED and all 3 in SUPER mode. It's overkill but whatever. Lights, signals, operating accessories and all such will (not there yet) have their own el-cheapo step-down transformers connected to a variac or just straight to the variac set to 14V or whatever I need. Signals need DC so I'll buy a used Astron or any one of the million 12VDC fused, crow-barred supplies available. No handles. Unless you need conventional operation. Even then I would think you'd be better off with variable TIU outputs under DCS. But maybe I just like walking. FWIW...

Don

Some of the allure for the ZW-C (or the ZW-L)  is the retro look which reminds us of how we lusted after a ZW when we were kids. And if you have the voltage and current readout add-on, then it provides additional information. The handles are just for show for many of us when running Legacy.

I use a vintage ZW with readout for accessories, switches, and lighting. I have the PSX-AC electronic breakers attached to each output. I use the handles, in that case, to adjust the voltage that is just right for the loads.

I have a vintage ZW I've been afraid to use, I shelved it as soon as I purchased my Z4000. So yes, I believe the nostalgia factor was what pushed me toward taking a chance with the ZW-C. I got a good price on a barely used one, and took a leap of faith.

for now on my layout when I get an occasional wreck or engine derailment wich sometimes happens or when chainging engines on and off my layout. I just like going and turning down the handle on the zwc for that power district. then just swap engines or rerail loco and then turn the handle back up and I am good to go. plus as mentioned they just look cool. 

sandjam  I got kristen at lionel and she helped me out. the first person I got did not know and told me they were unavailable also. they are $15 each and are made to order just be sure when you get a girl on the phone you tell here if she says no to ask someone who knows. they are available trust me I asked two girls on being kristen and were told they still have them they are just made to order. I emailed mike reagan when I was looking for one  and he also stated that lionel bought the chip programer to be able to do this. the first person to get me one was a parts dealer. he sent my old chip to lionel and they sent him a new one with the correct updated code. he told me he goes through lionel when he needs them. the next one I orderd I went straight to lionel and had no trouble in getting it. now I have two working zwc with the updated eprom chip. I would post a pic of my recipt but I think it got tossed. 

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

for now on my layout when I get an occasional wreck or engine derailment wich sometimes happens or when chainging engines on and off my layout. I just like going and turning down the handle on the zwc for that power district. then just swap engines or rerail loco and then turn the handle back up and I am good to go. plus as mentioned they just look cool. 

sandjam  I got kristen at lionel and she helped me out. the first person I got did not know and told me they were unavailable also. they are $15 each and are made to order just be sure when you get a girl on the phone you tell here if she says no to ask someone who knows. they are available trust me I asked two girls on being kristen and were told they still have them they are just made to order. I emailed mike reagan when I was looking for one  and he also stated that lionel bought the chip programer to be able to do this. the first person to get me one was a parts dealer. he sent my old chip to lionel and they sent him a new one with the correct updated code. he told me he goes through lionel when he needs them. the next one I orderd I went straight to lionel and had no trouble in getting it. now I have two working zwc with the updated eprom chip. I would post a pic of my recipt but I think it got tossed. 

Ok maybe I just got an uninformed person, I will try again with Kristen.

Thanks!

I just received the Lionel ZW-C I purchased. I removed the 4 top screws on the ZW-C shell to see which chip I have. Without forcing, it doesn't seem to lift off easily. The top is loose & lifts partly but seems to be hung up at the front above the terminal posts.  Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Joe