I'm looking at a Lionel B-6 switcher, #6-18000. I'm not familiar with this loco since I run post-war stuff. Would it perform well on a post-war tubular track layout ?
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Yes, it works well, that's the only kind of track I use. You can find a great selection of them on Ebay.
Yes, this is just prior to TMCC, probably would be a great runner and a nice addition to your collection. I would think it would negotiate great on 022 switches. Let us know if you if you get one of those neat switchers.
I have had mine since it first came out. It is a very smooth runner. It used much of the original tooling from the 1937 loco (I think that was the year it was introduced). It is a scale model, except for the flanges and couplers. It has puffing smoke, back up light, and the first version of Railsounds. I run mine a lot, even though I have many Legacy locos. Also, it’s drive is similar to the scale Hudson of the 1930’s, which is one of the reasons it runs so smooth. It fits well with post war trains(and prewar since it dates back to then).
Thanks all.
Dan, I bought mine new in 89 and was not happy with the gearing. Guess the thing would run 200 smph. I have a box of brass gears from slot car days and found a pair that would mesh properly. The original gears between the motor shaft and the worm gear shaft were 9T pinion on the motor shaft and a 19T on the worm gear shaft. 2.11 : 1. I can't remember what the tooth count on the gears I replaced the originals with but they raised the ratio to a over 3:1. It made a huge difference in it's ability creep but one problem I had was the original gears are 32 pitch and the slot car gears were 48 pitch (finer teeth) and they tended to whurr a bit louder than I liked so I made a gearbox cover out of brass and played around with different home brewed gear box grease. What I ended up with was STP, Graphite and very fine sawdust. With the gearbox cover in place it is at least as quiet as the original gears. I have an LCRU2 that I am planning to install in it but may have to wait till fall before I can get to it I will make photos and count the teeth on the new gears then. I remember another problem I had was the motor wanted to start running before the E-unit completed pulling the drum into place and when going from neutral to forward It would lurch forward like a drag racer. I cured this by stacking parallel back to back + to - diodes on the leads to the brushes. I don't remember how many are in the chain but I kept adding pairs till the E-unit would completely cycle before the motor had enough voltage to run. With the mods the B6 is the best running conventional loco I have. J
Hey @Former Member -
I love mine, runs fine on my very tight (tubular) tabletop layout with the small switches (O-27 I think). I've taken tons of pictures of mine which can be found here.
They can be found on eBay selling between $140-$300, with an average price of about $220, I saw one once listed for $800 believe it or not.
I'll try to give mine a run tonight and take a video if I get a chance - and update this post if you'd like.
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I might as well chime in, too. I have one of those B6 switchers that I bought NIB about seven years ago. I use FasTrack, and my tightest curve is 036, but the B6 takes it easily. Smoke and sound are all I could ask for, and it's an excellent runner. All in all, a significant improvement over the original. I'd recommend one to anyone without hesitation.
I guess I will chime in as someone else who is a fan of this locomotive. I have had one for about 15 years. I like the look and mine runs and has enough detail for me. I know the wheel spacing is incorrect and details are missing. Today they can be purchased for what I consider really good prices. There was one recently listed for sale on the Buy/Sell section here for a pretty good price, although I can't remember what that was. May still be listed but I'm sure it is pages back now
Bought a new one on Ebay about 6 weeks ago and very pleased. Think they first came out in 1939 - is geared to run too fast but prewar locos usually ran fast and it works fine on a MTH Z1000 transformer.
I pulled the trigger on a new one listed on Ebay. Got it for $200.00 including shipping. Looking forward to getting it. When we were kids, my brother's loco was the pre-war version. It will be nice having the loco once more, albeit a newer version.
Yeah!
After it arrives please feel free to post a picture or two of it onto the weekly Switcher Saturday!
Enjoy...Rich
They are prone to the plastic axle gear splitting, so test run any you look at buying, or ask if the original gear has been replaced
Dan Padova posted:I pulled the trigger on a new one listed on Ebay. Got it for $200.00 including shipping. Looking forward to getting it. When we were kids, my brother's loco was the pre-war version. It will be nice having the loco once more, albeit a newer version.
Started watching that one last night after reading your thread. Nice grab!
"Dan, I bought mine new in 89 and was not happy with the gearing."
I never owned one, but a friend was considering selling his as he did not like the way it ran. I thought about it as it is historically interesting, but after testing it on my layout, I decided that a 100 smph switcher was not appealing, even historically, for any price he would find acceptable. So, I don't have one.
I can't imagine why they made it that way; the old 700E Hudson was well geared, and was a contemporary. And a better switcher, if it came to that. Did Lionel in the 80's change the B6 gearing? The 80's 785 Hudson will run at calm speeds; I have one.
check out mine.....
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D500 posted:"Dan, I bought mine new in 89 and was not happy with the gearing."
I never owned one, but a friend was considering selling his as he did not like the way it ran. I thought about it as it is historically interesting, but after testing it on my layout, I decided that a 100 smph switcher was not appealing, even historically, for any price he would find acceptable. So, I don't have one.
I can't imagine why they made it that way; the old 700E Hudson was well geared, and was a contemporary. And a better switcher, if it came to that. Did Lionel in the 80's change the B6 gearing? The 80's 785 Hudson will run at calm speeds; I have one.
I am surprised to read this. I though the 18005 was mostly just the prewar 227 switcher with a modern motor and eunit. Many of the parts are interchangeable. Following is a quote from a previous post regarding the gearing on the 227.
"Ted, the motor pinion has 9 teeth, the bull on the worm shaft has 19 teeth. That gives a ratio of 2.11 to 1. The worm is a 3 lead worm. The worm wheel has 21 teeth. That would give a gear ratio of 7 to 1. The overall ratio is 14.77 to1. So the armature would make about 15 turns to get the wheels to make one full revolution... These 227 series locos run noticeable slower than most post war locomotives do."
Haha thanks @David Johnston, you saved me the trouble of searching for that post!
Agree with David, the final gear ratio of 14.77 is quite a bit slower than a "regular" postwar steam loco, which are usually geared around 10:1. Of course the scale Hudson is geared at 18:1, but it has MUCH larger driving wheels. Most people don't regard the 773 as a fast runner.
One mystery that I never solved... The switcher was introduced in '39 and that year's catalog touts the gear ratio as "20:1". Is this just marketing puffery, or did Lionel start out with a TWO-lead worm (which would have been 22:1), and then switch to the faster three-lead worm in the 1940s? I always look for scale switcher mechanisms in junk boxes at York, trying to prove this one way or another. Where's Bruce Greenberg when you need him? :-)
David Johnston posted:I am surprised to read this. I though the 18005 was mostly just the prewar 227 switcher with a modern motor and eunit.
David the 18005 is the 5340 NYC Hudson. The PRR B6 0-6-0 (8977) is 18000
An earlier post mentioned the motor starting to turn before the e unit cycled. Sometimes that happened to me so I installed a Dallee electronic e-unit which eliminated the problem and allowed the loco to start at a much lower voltage and run much more smoothly. Maybe that is why I like how mine runs so well.
JohnActon posted:David Johnston posted:I am surprised to read this. I though the 18005 was mostly just the prewar 227 switcher with a modern motor and eunit.David the 18005 is the 5340 NYC Hudson. The PRR B6 0-6-0 (8977) is 18000
I stand corrected. Thank you.
Dan....you did well with that buy at 200.00! You will love this model. I've had mine for several years. Got it at York for $250.00......and it's worth it!
Dan Padova posted:I pulled the trigger on a new one listed on Ebay. Got it for $200.00 including shipping. Looking forward to getting it. When we were kids, my brother's loco was the pre-war version. It will be nice having the loco once more, albeit a newer version.
Congrats, Dan. You'll like it. A friend of mine just bought one a few months ago and he loves it. This is one loco that I'd love to have, but can't justify it as I'm fortunate to have 3 others that are family heirlooms: a prewar 227, a prewar 708 full-scale B6, and a Williams Crown Edition B6. BTW, the OLR switches I bought from you arrived safely. Thanks!!
John
artfull dodger posted:They are prone to the plastic axle gear splitting, so test run any you look at buying, or ask if the original gear has been replaced
You're a bit late, it's on it's way. So I take it the plastic gear would be the axle gear and not the worm gear ?
Jeff2035 posted:An earlier post mentioned the motor starting to turn before the e unit cycled. Sometimes that happened to me so I installed a Dallee electronic e-unit which eliminated the problem and allowed the loco to start at a much lower voltage and run much more smoothly. Maybe that is why I like how mine runs so well.
That sounds like a good idea. Let's see how it runs when I get it, then I'll make the decision to change the E-unit.
Bought one at the last April York and love it. Great engine, always wanted one. Cash talks at York on Saturday. Paid $175.
Jeff2035 posted:An earlier post mentioned the motor starting to turn before the e unit cycled. Sometimes that happened to me so I installed a Dallee electronic e-unit which eliminated the problem and allowed the loco to start at a much lower voltage and run much more smoothly. Maybe that is why I like how mine runs so well.
Jeff, When I bought the B6 in 1989 I was not aware of the Dallee E unit it sure would have been a better fix than 8-10 diodes but a bit more expensive than $2-3 for the diodes. One feature of the Dallee E-unit that I am fond of for an F3 or GP9, Hudson, Mohawk..... is the start in forward (or reverse) after a stop of more than 5-6 sec. But oddly enough I am not all that crazy about it on the B6. I'm just as likely to have cars on either end and also as likely to want to push as pull them and end up having to cycle through FNR. I haven't used the B6 much since 2000 when I converted to TMCC. I have a spare TMCC LCRU2 that I will install when I finish preparing my boat to sell. sure will be good to have the B6 off the shelf and electro couplers to boot. J
John, please let us know how you squeezed in the LCRU2 into the B6 and/or tender (which has Railsounds board/speaker).
Re: the balky e-unit. I have one of these, and it also had this problem. I found that the drum did not rotate easily, which meant a higher than intended voltage was needed to cycle it, because the finger contacts were putting too much pressure on the drum. I just bent them back a little, until the drum was loose enough to move at 6 volts. Didn't even have to take the e-unit apart. There was still enough pressure on the drum for good electrical contact.
Other things to look for might be a burr on the inside of the holes which support the ends of the drum, or the side plates of the e-unit being pressed too tightly together.
That being said, adding diodes to slow the motor has the advantage of increasing the minimum operating voltage, which improves the smoke output and headlight brightness when running at yard speeds. So that approach has something to be said for it.
I often run mine using a PowerMaster. Not only do I get to follow the switcher around, but the jagged waveform seems to effectively increase the voltage seen by the smoke unit and lights. The motor and e-unit are louder when run this way, but not offensively so.
Also, I made a mod to the smoke unit which was recommended at the time. That involved drilling an 1/8" hole through the interior vertical partition, right at the center of the resistor (in these, the resistor is mounted vertically, and surrounded by a fiberglass sleeve, which wicks the fluid up to it). That took smoke output from non-existent to actually pretty good (for that era, anyway).
Jeff2035 posted:John, please let us know how you squeezed in the LCRU2 into the B6 and/or tender (which has Railsounds board/speaker).
PieceAcake, I'm gonna loose the e-unit and a chunk of lead. I really did not plan to open the loco just yet but Jeff, just for you ! Attached are three photos you can see the LCRU2 fits on it's side between the gear box and the smoke unit. I will make a new heat sink and put a layer of foam tape on the bottom to hold the thing in place. In one of the photos I am showing the gear box cover I made. The blade of the knife is resting on the cover. I am not going to pull the cover off and count the teeth now you will have till I get to this project. Tried to spin the armature and count the turns but turning it with a Q-Tip is just too slow. J
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nickaix posted:Re: the balky e-unit. I have one of these, and it also had this problem. I found that the drum did not rotate easily, which meant a higher than intended voltage was needed to cycle it, because the finger contacts were putting too much pressure on the drum. I just bent them back a little, until the drum was loose enough to move at 6 volts. Didn't even have to take the e-unit apart. There was still enough pressure on the drum for good electrical contact.
Nick, I remember diddling with the e-unit for a couple of days back when the loco was new. It is working as smooth as it possibly can. Remember this e-unit uses a spring to move it's armature back to the rest position in place of gravity and it does take a little more voltage to cycle it. Add to this that the higher gear ratio from 14:1 to well over 20:1 allows the motor to spin much more freely. It starts at a lower voltage and pulls less current. I added lead to the boiler to make use of the extra torque at the wheels and when I install the LCRU I hope I can find some new places to pack in some lead as the LCRU will take up the space where my block of lead was. J
video of it running on the Ri.C.H. RR, a couple days later than promised though....
Received my B6 yesterday and had a chance to try it out this afternoon. Beautiful locomotive. Runs very smoothly and the low speed is very good.
I hooked up the whistle/bell switch, between my post-war ZW and the track, following the instructions. Unfortunately the bell will not sound. If I slide the switch to the bell position and turn the track power on, the circuit breaker I installed between the transformer and track trips instantly. Reversing the wires doesn't help. The whistle does work though. However, the whistle works without the whistle/bell switch wired into the mix.
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Wonder if the electronics in the button or the tender are going south Dan? Unfortunatly the electronics will not age well like the rest of the model will. Seeing the same problem with the early sound LGB trains in G scale, lots of failing sound boards as the electronics come to the end of thier life span. I do love the gear ration in my prewar 227 B6, allows for slow and steady speed without stalling on tight 0-31 curves. I do tend to leave the bell turned off, gets annoying after a few min on my old bell ringer tender. Mike the Aspie
I've run mine at my club with a TPC and a cab-1, with the TPC set at 80 steps. Very smooth running engine and I can start at slower speeds than with just a transformer. Very happy I bought one. Always wanted one from back when they came out. Glad I waited and got one for less than half of what it originally sold for.
Dan, enjoy your B-6, cool little switcher.
Ted
Dan Padova posted:
I hooked up the whistle/bell switch, between my post-war ZW and the track, following the instructions. Unfortunately the bell will not sound. If I slide the switch to the bell position and turn the track power on, the circuit breaker I installed between the transformer and track trips instantly. Reversing the wires doesn't help. The whistle does work though. However, the whistle works without the whistle/bell switch wired into the mix.
Dan, I received a Bell / Whistle switch once with another loco that did the same thing. Try removing the B/W switch and just reverse the transformer leads to the track and try the whistle button on the zw that way. If it still trips the breaker it is the board but I kinda doubt it. The components most likely to fail in old electronics are the electrolytic capacitors. It is not a bad idea to swap out the electrolytic caps before they fail. J
Dan Padova posted:I hooked up the whistle/bell switch, between my post-war ZW and the track, following the instructions. Unfortunately the bell will not sound. If I slide the switch to the bell position and turn the track power on, the circuit breaker I installed between the transformer and track trips instantly.
Dan,
If you're trying to use the slide switch that came with the B6 to operate the sound, in a word... don't.
Those 5904 boxes were only used on the first two RailSounds locos (the B6 and Reading T1) and created more problems than they solved.
RailSounds 1 boards will respond to the bell button on your transformer, or any of the 5906 Sound Activation Buttons which were the successor to the 5904.
TRW
Mine has recently gone through a second upgrade. With much trial and error I was able to install a small can motor in place of the original. After some experimentation it was determined that reusing the brass and nylon gears produced the best results without delving deep into a total rework of the driveline. I installed an ERR cruise commander in the tender to get full benefit from the can motor. Happily, the whole affair works smoothly and quietly (after some shimming) and can crawl markedly better than under conventional control. That concluded the first upgrade.
After a lengthy run in period it was determined that some reworking of certain aspects was needed. First was the removal of the CC, to be replaced with a CC Lite inside the boiler. Using the mounting tape provided by ERR the CCL was installed on its side on top of the worm gear cover. I shielded the electronics form the boiler shell with thin styrene. Previous LED headlights determined to be too starkly blue were changed up for a warmer white set. Some of my decidedly hefty wiring for the tether was totally re-engineered with light gauge wire and a swiveling female connector. Only one heavy current wire was now needed in the tether, as opposed to 3 previously, what with the new electronics now up front. A bit of additional work retrofitting coil couplers and a tender pickup roller and she's ready for yard shifting. Phase 3 will be reinstalling sound in the tender.
Bruce
Bruce, I must give you credit. That sounds like quite a bit of work. How about a video of it in action.
I discovered that can motors don't get along with some post-war equipment. I have two K-Line GG1s. They will not start again when stopped by my #132 Automatic Stop Station. ADCXROB confirmed my suspicion that the can motors resistance was too light to let the station do it's job.
