The 6-18043 is just another large Hudson with a different shell. Command Control upgrades are possible as well as modifying the frame casting for a DC can motor. I have one and am very content with its stock operation, but if dead set on making changes - especially a DC motor, @harmonyards is probably your guy.

First off, the 6-18043 is already a command equipped locomotive, it has the early TMCC.  Yes, to have cruise you will need to swap out the Pulmore for a DC motor.

The complete upgrade with a DC motor swap will not be cheap, especially if you're not doing the work yourself.  Parts & labor for a typical motor swap run around $200-225 last time I checked.  Assuming you're doing the work yourself, you're still looking at a few hundred in parts and significant time for the labor.  Since this has a mechanical smoke unit, in order to get decent smoke, the fan driven smoke unit and Super-Chuffer would be added.

@Burl posted:

I'm also curious would an upgraded ERR board allow me to swap out the tender coupler for a command control one?

Burl,

This locomotive came equipped from the factory with a provision to add an electrocoupler, operable via TMCC, in the field.

You do not need to upgrade the existing command control electronics, to an ERR board or otherwise, to add this electrocoupler.  It's a matter of just connecting two wires.

Mike

Thanks John.  It seems it's more of a project than I thought.  Between these replies, it looks a new smoke unit, new coupler, modifying the frame, plus the motor and electronics.  Maybe Lionel will offer a Legacy one, or I can find one of the MTH PS3 models if I keep hunting.  If anyone knows of one, would appreciate you dropping me a note.  Thanks again!

It is a major upgrade and not cheap.  I wouldn't hold my breath for Lionel, but maybe you can find the PS/3 model.

@Burl posted:

Thanks John.  It seems it's more of a project than I thought.  Between these replies, it looks a new smoke unit, new coupler, modifying the frame, plus the motor and electronics.  Maybe Lionel will offer a Legacy one, or I can find one of the MTH PS3 models if I keep hunting.  If anyone knows of one, would appreciate you dropping me a note.  Thanks again!

I stopped by the Valley Farm Market in Weedville PA last Tuesday on my way to St. Marys PA.  I'm pretty sure I saw a Rail King C&O Streamlined Hudson on the shelf. Not sure if it was PS2 or PS3 but I'd guess the latter. This is a little store in a rural area that doesn't have a website, but they're nice helpful people and I understand they'll ship products. Definitely worth a call.

Too bad the MTH model wasn't the Premier scale model, I'd go for one if it was.

@Burl posted:

Thanks John.  It seems it's more of a project than I thought.  Between these replies, it looks a new smoke unit, new coupler, modifying the frame, plus the motor and electronics.  Maybe Lionel will offer a Legacy one, or I can find one of the MTH PS3 models if I keep hunting.  If anyone knows of one, would appreciate you dropping me a note.  Thanks again!

It’s not out of the realm of possibilities……if you play your cards right, and remain savvy, you can do the project as a whole and be in the 1000 dollar neighborhood….providing you buy the base model at the right price …..John is right on target with overall costs….but to add, if a scale C&O Hudson is your desire, than the 18043 is the best example in scale for 3 rail…..I never understood why Lionel called this locomotive semi-scale when in fact it’s very very near full scale. There are a couple distinct differences between the model and the prototype, but minuscule at best…..for 99.9% of us ….it’s scale……you’d pay north of 1000 IF a scale model did hit the market anyways, and given the current status of QC …be careful what you wish for! ……OTOH, these old Pulmor locomotives are built like battle tanks, and take to upgrades like a duck to water……some folks opt for the Timko can motor swap, and save a few bucks, but IMO, it’s way underpowered to do any real tasks, as some of us have done, the large Pittman swap, and full compliment of ERR with John’s Chuff Stuff (copyrighted)  and fan smoke is the way to go,…….Alex M has much experience upgrading these old Pulmors that I’ve swapped in the large Pittman motor into, and I’m sure John would have no issues either, as I set them up with close coordination with the electronics installer in mind,……this much I can tell you, when these are swapped over properly, they become a very smooth running and robust locomotive……for me, it’s all about longevity, durability, and pulling power,…upgrade one and it’ll check all the boxes,……😉

Pat

That was a very convincing post!  The MTH version is proving hard to find, and as John pointed out, it will look a bit undersize with the rest of my locomotives.  If you saw the post on my layout, only recently did the C&O connection make it to "Gilbert Yard" and I'm anxious to get a C&O train running.  What would the total parts list look like?

- John's Super Chuffer

- ERR Cruise Commander (with buffer?)

- Suitable Electro Coupler (part number?)

- Large Pittman motor (model number?  source?)

- Fan driven smoke unit (part number(s)?)

- What else?

Are there any special tools needed to swap the motor?  It sounded like some modification to the frame, maybe a different mount, would be needed.

I can't say I'm comfortable doing a big upgrade like this, but generally the only way to get comfortable with something is doing it.  While it's definitely apples to oranges, I got very comfortable a while ago fixing everything pre and post war to include alot of the electronic upgrades available in the late 90s.  As I get back into the hobby, it's becoming apparent I need to up my electronics understanding and skills, so may as well give it go.

I really appreciate the advice and help with this!

You will need the sound board as well.  Here's a preliminary list of the items you'll need for such an upgrade.

• ERR Cruise Commander
• ERR RailSounds Commander
• Super-Chuffer
• Chuff-Generator
• Fan Driven Smoke Unit
• Pittman Motor & associated hardware.
• 10-pin tether, LED lighting, electrocoupler, etc.

Obviously, you could also go the PS/3 upgrade route.  For steam, it ends up being cheaper than TMCC.  I'd rate the complexity as similar.

• PS/3 Steam Upgrade kit
• Fan Driven Smoke Unit
• Pittman Motor & associated hardware.

I’ll let the electronics masters  speak of those upgrades, and I’ll concentrate on my specialty, the large Pittman swap…..

you will have to familiarize yourself with working on/cutting/machining die cast metal. Step one is to take a deep breath, and then lop off the back of the frame where the old Pulmor lived. This has to be snuck up on so you don’t cut off too much,….done correctly, the existing boiler mounts can be left intact, making the mod easier……in these streamlined shells ( C&O Yellow Belly, CV Hudson ) a Pittman 9433XXXX fits the best. You will then have to hog out some of old Pulmor’s   reinforcement on the frame, to make access for the new mount, and so you can incorporate some sort of flywheel……flywheel diameter is not as crucial as one would think, as command mode with 100 speed steps really lets you slow down to a crawl before stopping anyways, plus, all the old Pulmor’s gearboxes are back drivable, and when properly tuned, they help when coming to a stop to prevent the dreaded lock up and coupler crash,…..I’m not the only one that does this kind of swap, there are others, so it’s not some sort of witchcraft voodoo….think about what your doing, what your cutting, and use common sense, and it’s achievable…..this is Dennis’s 18056 Hudson ( former Pulmor ) under the knife at Harmon Shops…..

Pat

You could wait and get the 3rd Rail one when they come out, if any are left ...

C&O Hudson

I'm guessing that the 3rd Rail is not cheap, but there's no price on the link.

@harmonyards posted:

I’ll let the electronics masters  speak of those upgrades, and I’ll concentrate on my specialty, the large Pittman swap…..

you will have to familiarize yourself with working on/cutting/machining die cast metal. Step one is to take a deep breath, and then lop off the back of the frame where the old Pulmor lived. This has to be snuck up on so you don’t cut off too much,….done correctly, the existing boiler mounts can be left intact, making the mod easier……in these streamlined shells ( C&O Yellow Belly, CV Hudson ) a Pittman 9433XXXX fits the best. You will then have to hog out some of old Pulmor’s   reinforcement on the frame, to make access for the new mount, and so you can incorporate some sort of flywheel……flywheel diameter is not as crucial as one would think, as command mode with 100 speed steps really lets you slow down to a crawl before stopping anyways, plus, all the old Pulmor’s gearboxes are back drivable, and when properly tuned, they help when coming to a stop to prevent the dreaded lock up and coupler crash,…..I’m not the only one that does this kind of swap, there are others, so it’s not some sort of witchcraft voodoo….think about what your doing, what your cutting, and use common sense, and it’s achievable…

In other words, send it to Pat for that step!

Wow!  Not just a little work on the frame.  What does the cab interior look like after the mod?  I have not seen the original, but I had expected it to have a firebox wall v. the post war open motor.

Not much on the stock original other than the guts that make it gol:

@Burl posted:

Wow!  Not just a little work on the frame.  What does the cab interior look like after the mod?  I have not seen the original, but I had expected it to have a firebox wall v. the post war open motor.

I'm afraid it's the latter, no firebox wall or detail.

Thanks for the view and description of the cab.  I understand my current options now, and I think a little patience is in order before I buy something.  I really appreciate all of the great information!!

After the Pittman swap, there’s plenty of room in the cab to put a backhead on the boiler …..the Pittman stays in its bounds…..that was one of the “must haves” when designing this mod……….unshrouded Hudsons you can actually scoot the backhead a little more towards the boiler for a much better look….instead of having the crew hang out of the back of the cab for dear life,…..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣…Pete ( Norton) has found the VL Hudson has a separate backehad available from the big L, ….to be sure that can be adapted to the C&O Hudson….so in other words, more than one way to skin a cat….

Pat

It is a great-looking locomotive.  I would buy one if if we’re reissued with LC+2.0 and good negotiate 036 curves.  I have a 4’7” x 8’6” layout.  I am hopeful that with the tooling going to Lionel for many things will include this locomotive.  Additionally, since Lionel has just shipped their Baby K4 from the same factory that makes their Visionline and Lionmaster series, I am hopefully that a new Torpedo on the same chassis as the Baby K4 will be made soon.  

@Burl, FYI, a decked out Lionel C&O Hudson just was listed on the For Sale part of the forum by @Mikado 4501

https://ogrforum.com/...-fan-smoke-can-motor

Thanks!  I just sent him an email.

Good job pointing that one out bmoran4!….I forgot Mikado 4501 had posted that model for sale ……sounds like a good deal and checks most of the boxes for Burl (If not all of them!)

Pat

Mikado4501 is selling to me, along with four matching passenger cars.  Exactly what I was looking for.  I really appreciate you all on here!

So, for the backhead, I found this on eBay.  Will it fit with a little trimming?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392470509037

Part number:  600-8058-234 for 773 CC Hudson

If you're going to go for an interior, go first class!  This has the gauges and valves painted, and a realistic Johnson Bar.

This is a great Question, lots of great answers and recommendations, one thing for certain, Harmonyards can do a Pittman motor replacement, plus lots of other changes. Keep this thread going during your modifications. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Burl posted:

Mikado4501 is selling to me, along with four matching passenger cars.  Exactly what I was looking for.  I really appreciate you all on here!

So, for the backhead, I found this on eBay.  Will it fit with a little trimming?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392470509037

Part number:  600-8058-234 for 773 CC Hudson

I’d agree with John, ….sounds like you got one heck of a deal,…so go first class, and figure out how to fit and mount that Vision Line Hudson back head,……😉

Pat

Backhead on order!    Thanks John!

Leapinlarry, thanks for your suggestions.  But ultimately I felt the upgrade might be too much for me, and the folks here pointed out one had just been posted in the for sale section that had already been upgraded.  So, I jumped on that.  Many thanks to Mikado4501.

@Burl posted:

Backhead on order!    Thanks John!

Leapinlarry, thanks for your suggestions.  But ultimately I felt the upgrade might be too much for me, and the folks here pointed out one had just been posted in the for sale section that had already been upgraded.  So, I jumped on that.  Many thanks to Mikado4501.

Very cool,….now hump over to mthpartsandsales.com and pick you up a pair of these guys to operate your newly acquired Hudson…..arguably the best looking engineer & fireman figures in the business at the moment, readily available…..

Pat

Well, turns out the backhead was on backorder, apparently indefinitely.  So, I decided to try to make one myself.  I used a laminated picture of a backhead, then cut out the firebox opening.  I then glued a picture of coal embers on the flywheel so that you can see it move through the firebox doors.  Then, a little black foam rubber to provide mounting points, and seats for the figures.  It has a flashing read light attached to optical sensor for the chuffing, and it blinks providing a bit of an effect through the firebox.  I might try to find a softer and constant flicking light to mount to get a better firebox effect.

If you like flickering firebox emulations, you might like to whack together something like I did for the effect.  These are boards with four flickering LED's arranged to peek through the firebox door cutout.  I normally leave the red plastic over the opening to diffuse the light.  The larger board has a power supply, the smaller board requires 5V power which I normally get from my Super-Chuffer.

Thanks John, I may give it try!