Lionel's GP-7 & 9

I've converted a couple to tmcc and they do fine for me. Still have one more to do wasn't going to but the E-unit started acting up

I own over thrty pullmor equipped TMCC Geeps.  They all pull twenty cars no problem.  Better yet, get two, they are more fun to run together and combined they will pull down a wall of your house.

I have an older one, it seems pretty light compared to a newer Williams.

The Lionel Traditional O Gauge GP7s had the can motor.

 

The Lionel Traditional O Gauge GP9s had the pullmor motors.

 

 

Andrew

A few of the GP-7s had Pullmors as well, but all the GP-9s did, I think. Also, there were a lot more GP-9s made than GP-7s.

 

Well, let me launch into a long post here.  I'm a big fan of the GP-9s from the late 90s into the early 2000s, and later, that were equipped with TMCC and RailSounds. They can be run conventionally as well, but I'd suggest you look into a basic TMCC control system - not too expensive, and you'd enjoy it. The first of these, a NYC Lightning Stripe, was introduced in 1996. They're fairly inexpensive and bulletproof. They're scale-sized, of course, and when running along on a layout, it's hard to tell them from more detailed "scale" versions. Geeps were pretty unadorned engines to begin with. I've also swapped shells with some earlier MPC versions to give additional road names, which is fun and quite easy to do.

 

Besides TMCC and RailSounds (and incidentally the RailSounds on these Geeps is particularly good), the engines are equipped with electrocouplers, directional lighting, constant voltage lighting, and Magnetraction. The Pullmor motors on these engines are of a higher quality than many of those made in the MPC era.

 

Throughout the later 90s Lionel gradually added features to these engines as they were produced, adding electrocouplers, then diecast metal fuel tanks, then diecast pilots, cab interiors with crew figures, and so on. These later ones with all the diecast parts have a good heft to them and especially good pulling power.

 

One modification I make is to move the front headlight bulb (which is normally mounted above the cab) right to the front, directly behind the headlight lens. This greatly improves the brightness of the front headlight. (The rear bulb is already right next to the rear light lens, so that one is fine.) For variety, I made a modification to one engine when swapping a shell and putting with a TMCC/RS chassis with it, which was equipped with the roof strobe. Since the earlier shell didn't have the strobe, I drilled out an opening in the front below the headlight and added another lens, and mounted the flashing strobe bulb behind it to create a simulated MARS light.

 

In any case, these engines run very well. For example, I have a Milwaukee Road no. 18866 (from 1999, I think) which has cab no. 2383 (different from the year earlier model no. 18565 with cab no. 2338). The 18866 added diecast pilots, which the 18565 didn't have. Lionel also had refreshed the mold, so body details are a bit crisper on the 18866. I have this engine pulling the matching "B" unit, and it makes a nice looking set. The motor has been adequately broken in (a positive thing with Pullmor motors) and runs extremely smoothly and quietly, and at very low speeds. 

 

The later versions should be of similar quality. Interestingly, Lionel also made 3 or 4 of these later TMCC/RailSounds GP-9s (Chinese production) which have dual DC can motors. I have one of these, and plan to add ERR cruise control to it.

 

To breezinup: your GP comments are excellent.  I've got three TMCC GP's, they run and sound great. I remember my dealer handing out free brake blister tops when the Milwaukee Road GP came out.  It may have been pictured in the catalog but the actual model didn't have it.  Rich

We have two of the late 90's GP's with TMCC. The B&O and the UP that was part of the Ore unit train set.

Both have been bullet-proof.

 

Here's an article I found a number of years ago from the old Coil Couplers of America site which contains some good information about the Geeps discussed above, up until 2002. There are a few more that aren't listed - I know there were two different Santa Fe merger engines done and two different Atlantic Coast engines, which make for nice A-A combos. I have both these sets and they're very sharp. There have been others produced since then, of course, but not as many. These listed here were all U.S. made. The more recent ones are Chinese production, of course, but have pretty much the same construction (except those four which have dual DC can motors).

 

Lionel's Command Equipped Geeps Roll On

Evolution of the Trainmaster Command Geeps

by Clyde Coil

In 1996, LIONEL introduced the first Command equipped Geeps, the 2380 Southern Pacific and the 2380 New York Central. Today's Geeps have evolved in a way that tells a story. One of the stories of today's LIONEL.

A list of released GP-7s and GP-9s with relevant feature information follows.

Built with Diecast trucks, metal frame, plastic tank and pilots Diecast magnetic couplers, directional lighting, magnetraction Pullmor Powered, Trainmaster and Railsounds equipped
Catalog	Engine	Railroad	Model #	Released	Notes
1996 Lionel Corp.	2380	Southern Pacific	6-18562	Oct-96
1996 Lionel Corp.	2380	New York Central	6-18563	Nov-96
1997 Classic-1	2380	Canadian Pacific	6-18564	Jun-97
1997 Classic-2	2338	Milwaukee Road	6-18565	May-97
1997 Classic-2	2028	Pennsylvania	6-18567	Jun-97
Electrocouplers, Crew Talk and Tower Comm introduced
1997 Stocking Stuffer	1997	Lionel Centennial	6-18846	Oct-97	finished interior, diecast pilot, no electrocouplers
1997 Heritage Fall	2380,2381	Union Pacific	6-11956	Dec-97	Double Lashup with second unit non powered, electrocouplers, no Railsounds
1997 Heritage Fall	2397	Union Pacific set	6-11837	Dec-97
1998 Classic	2380	Chicago Burlington & Quincy	6-18569	Mar-98
1998 Classic	2398	Custom Series #1	6-18575	Sept-98
Diecast Fuel Tank introduced
1998 Heritage	2380, 2381, 2389	Boston and Maine	6-11843	Sept-98	Triple Lashup with middle unit non powered, electrocouplers, no Railsounds
Diecast Pilot introduced
1998 Classic-II	2029	Pennsylvania	6-18870	Nov-98
1998 Classic-II	2383	Milwaukee Road	6-18866	Dec-98
1999 Preview	5616	Baltimore & Ohio	6-18879	May-99
1999 Preview		Custom series #2	6-18881	April-99
Finished Cab interior introduced
1999 Heritage	453,454,455	Wabash	6-18872	May-99	Triple Lashup with middle unit non powered, electrocouplers, no Railsounds
1999 Classic-I	2328	Burlington	6-18892	May-99	Postwar Celebration Series
1999 Classic-III	607,608,609	Florida East Coast	6-28509	April-00	Triple Lashup with non-powered middle unit
1999 Classic-III	2924	Sante Fe Merger	6-28502	Oct-99
Other cataloged items
2000 Volume 1	178	Atlantic Coast Line	6-28503	April-00
2000 Volume 2	1518	Chicago & North Western	6-28517	May-01	includes Cab-1 & Command Base
2001 Volume 1	1406	New Haven Command Control Set	6-31905	Nov-01	includes 4 cars, power and track
2001 Volume 1	2001	Atomic Energy Commission	6-28527	April-01	Glows in the dark
2001 Volume 1	102	Norfolk Southern Service Station Set	6-21789	Sept-01	includes 5 cars
2001 Volume 1	2349	Northern Pacific	6-28519	April-01	Postwar Celebration Series
2001 Volume 2	4134	Grand Trunk Western	6-28534	(Jan-02)	Archive Collection
2002 Volume 1	4601	US Army Transportation Corps	6-28535	(Nov-02)	GP-9m
2002 Volume 1	1274	Rock Island	6-28536	July-02

These Geeps tell a story, Lionel is constantly striving to improve the classic designs from the postwar era, and has produced the most innovative and fun versions ever of the Classic Lionel Geep.

 

There are some GP-9s with can motors also.

I have 3 of the PullMor Geeps......

 

NYC 2380

NYC 2383

Pennsy 2028

 

The drawbar pull on each is just under a pound. (I have the gauge Scott's Odds & Ends used to sell) 

That easily covers 8-10 modern cars.

 

Peter

 

 

Grand Trunk Western

6-28534

Was this Grand Trunk Western GP9 produced? I could never find it.

 

Andrew

Hard to believe the single motored GP-9 was that much of a puller, my single motored Phantom couldn't pull it's original four cars!  I suspect the motor on the proper set of trucks helps, I know the Phantom runs a lot better with two motors than it ever did with one!

 

Clyde's list posted above doesn't include the two separate sale GP-9's that were released in 1998.  I have the NYC version with cab# 2383,  its item number is 6-11864.  I am fairly certain the other GP-9 released at that time was item number 6-11863 painted for Southern Pacific and also had cab# 2383. I had the flyer for these engines at one time, I stupidly pitched it along with several years of old catalogs a while back.

I'm pretty sure that engine was cancelled and never produced.

 

Clyde's list mentioned them (I just didn't copy this comment), saying that they'd heard there were uncataloged 2383 NYC and SP Geeps, and asked for confirmation.

Greg, you're right, they were shown in separate single page flyers sent to dealers - I remember seeing those. As to why they were produced, I think they may have been additional production because the 2380s were so popular, but I'm not sure. I also heard they were offered to provide folks with A-A sets if desired. I don't know if that was part of it, either. There was also some information that Lionel added electrocouplers to these models (which the previous 2380s didn't have) but I can't confirm that. 

 

I'd heard in the past stories about the poor pulling power of the Phantom engines. I don't know why they had that characteristic. I've never owned or held one, so don't know if they were light in weight, or what would account for that. 

 

My Geeps pull quite well - I was running my Milwaukee Road 18866 GP-9 quite a bit over the holidays and pulling a dummy B unit and 9 cars. That's over a 10' long train, and I don't have any need to run freight trains much longer than that on my layout. It was running on FasTrak, so the magnetraction was in force. This engine also has diecast trucks, fuel tank and pilots, so it has pretty good weight to it. If more power is needed, I can just drop in another powered unit. I run several dual engine sets.

 

I think weight can be a major factor. Some MPC era Geeps I've owned would spin their wheels under certain loads, and adding weight to the chassis helped a good deal. It wasn't that the Pullmor didn't have the power, it was that the wheels couldn't get a grip. That said, the Geeps made after 1996 seem to have better motors and drive trains than many of the earlier versions I've owned. 

You're correct that it was the weight, or perhaps the weight transfer.  The locomotive would just spin the wheels, even on steel track.  It frequently couldn't get started on level Atlas track, no magnatraction to help.

 

Probably putting the motor in the front was the big problem, I still can't imagine what possessed them to do that!  Since I managed to put one in back, it could have obviously been designed that way from the start.

 

There was some mention of drawbar strength before, I did some brief tests of the Phantom locomotive with two motors.  It now weights 3# 12oz, and measured 1.37 pounds pulling force on Fastrack, so it has the benefit of magnatraction.

 

I sky-wired a piece of Atlas track in and did the pulling test. 1.03 pounds.  So magnatraction accounts for about 30% increase in pulling power on steel track.

 

In my initial testing, I did pull 12 cars, eight of them diecast cars, around the club layout, including the long grade.  No sweat at all after adding the second motor.

Item was canceled.

At one time I was absolutely certain that my NYC 2383 came with the electrocouplers installed.  Then I found a fourth electrocoupler box and started to have some doubt especially after reading that there were examples of NYC 2383 engines that did not have them.  I made a notation, including the cost, on my inventory spreadsheet when I added electrocouplers to an engine.  The note for the 2383 is "electrocouplers installed" in a different column and does not have a cost listed.  So I am still very confident that my 2383 came with the electro couplers factory installed but wouldn't bet on it.

breezinup - your observations are spot on.  That list is what inspired me to collect all the Geeps.  One of the overlooked facts of the TMCC Geeps is that almost all of them except for the two NYCs and two SPs have a different sound set for the diesel sounds.  They all have road specific towercom and all are unique in their own way.  breezinup, if you can find the MR other unit for a good price, you should snag it.  Those two units together are really handsome, and their two sound sets are great together.  My favorite Geeps are the three triple lashup sets, Wabash, B&M and FEC.  Great looking, running and sounding sets. 
Another interesting tidbit is only two of the TMCC Geeps have  a double tower com announcement.  The NS service station set Geep, which says close to 'proceed immediately to the nearest Lionel service station' on the first message, nd the Rock Island, which I believe was the last Geep made.  Like the Grand Trunk, the Army engine was never made.

With regard to the electrocouplers on early TMCC Geeps: the earliest ones didn't have them; later ones did. I have all four of the Milwaukee Road Geeps of this type. The first one, road number 2338, did not come with electrocouplers. 2383 did have them, as did the GP-20 that came out around the same time. There was a dummy B unit made to go with the 2383. You could get an upgrade kit to put electrocouplers in the dummy. There were two versions of the kit, one with new trucks and one without. It's dead easy to install electrocouplers in these engines, if you have an early one and are so inclined. 

 

I sometimes run all four of my Milwaukee Road units together, pulling a string of traditional size cars. The power train looks the best with the GP-20 in the lead, but unfortunately the GP-20 only has a single chime horn, which doesn't sound nearly as good as the dual-chime horns on the GP-9's. If I were planning on running that consist a lot, I might swap out a couple of the sound boards. The last time I ran this train on our museum layout, the Magne-Traction on one of the units picked up a loose screw and jammed the gear train, causing the whole mess to derail. 

I actually added about 14oz of weight in the front of the Phantom locomotive, it made no detectable improvement, much to my surprise.  Adding the rear motor made it into a locomotive.

 

I understand that magnatraction is even more effective on tubular track, at least that's what I've been told, haven't tested it myself.  I was impressed it made a significant difference, too bad our club uses Atlas track.

 

 

There's clearly some weird, mysterious stuff going on with that Phantom, John.   

 

Incidentally, another feature of the newer Geeps made begining in 1996 is that the chassis' were dropped to more prototypical heights, and large fuel tanks were added which extend way down to just above the tracks. There is zero gap above the trucks. They ride as low as anything I'm aware of. This really improved the look of these engines.

 

Here's a shot of the Milwaukee Road 18866 and matching B engine to show their low rider look. (I added the Milwaukee Road lettering - decals from Microscale; not prototypical on MR GP-7s and 9s, but I like it the look.)

 

 

I'm really enjoying this discussion.......I think these engines are great.....for simple TMCC and a killer sound system......and reliability (15+ years for some), they can't be beat!

 

Peter

My PRR Legacy GP-7 looks good, it does seem to have a lower appearance then the old models.

 

 

Here's a shot of the Milwaukee Road 18866 and matching B engine to show their low rider look. (I added the Milwaukee Road lettering - decals from Microscale; not prototypical on MR GP-7s and 9s, but I like it the look.)

Since a Milwaukee Road Geep B unit isn't prototypical anyway, it doesn't hardly matter! The Milwaukee did rebuild a couple of Geeps into yard slugs, which looked just like B units but didn't have engines, only traction motors and extra weight. 

Nice to see appreciation of these early command geeps. These have probably the best early diesel RS. The Canadian Pacific was my intro to TMCC. Recently sold it but still have the 2 SP's, No's. 2380 and 2383 which I've running a lot the last couple of weeks.

I have a couple o fetes and they run and pull just fine.

That's really an interesting feature about those varied sound sets. I know the sounds of their horns vary from engine to engine as well. 

 

Those triple unit sets are indeed impressive, with their two powered units and two sound systems, and they're a lot of fun to operate. I have a set that I run with one of those TMCC RailSounds bay window cabooses; the engines and caboose talk back and forth with each other, and it's very entertaining. I find it's at least as much fun if not more than operating most of my Legacy diesels.

I have the 2380 NYC & the NS ones.  Love them both. the Pullmor motor is great as is the sounds!