MTH 30-20361-1 PS3

AVR conductor posted:

Hi guys, 

Yesterday I picked up an MTH Railking Imperial diesel, the NS SD70ACE 911 at a show. The guy said it had very little run time just to test everything. I got it home, and took it out of the box. The cellophane wrap, warranty card, and literature was not in the box. That's not a big deal. I just printed the operating guide off of the website. 

Anyway I run everything conventional, with a Z-1000. I did the bell/horn combination to access the PFA and only got 2 quick horn blasts. I pressed the direction button to engage the PFA and got nothing. Pressing it again cause the engine to reverse and It would normally. I was able to access the sounds but it took some coaxing.

Also when stopping the engine using the direction button it stops on a dime, but causes a buff type derailment and when starting out forward and the same voltage the thing wants to take off almost stringlining the train  I'm sure my O31 curves have something to do with this. this is my first PS3 engine is everything I described normal? 

Or Did I get burned on this deal? Please let me know. Thanks

Can't comment on your PFA issue - it may just be your timing of button presses. Sometimes it takes a little getting used to.

I CAN comment on your stopping issue. This is a WELL KNOWN issue with NEW PS3 engines. This ONLY occurs with steam engines and diesels. Diesels only exhibit the issue with the smoke ON, not off. I have been VERY vocal about this.

I emailed an MTH VP about this and was told "we know about it but since everyone runs DCS, it is not worth our time and money to fix it". I have also directly spoken to Mike Wolf about this. His answer was that with PS3's lack of battery, this was the cause. Total BS....I've had PS3 steam and diesels since the first PS3 engines were on dealer shelves and  this issue only became apparent within the last 2 years of production. The battery has nothing to do with it.

As a result, I refuse to by MTH PS3 steam. I will, selectively, buy older PS2 units but my steam purchases are going to Lionel for LC+ and Legacy. They are making, overall, a good, well built product save some quality issues I won't go into.

I do not run smoke in diesels so the issue isn't much of an issue with me in regards to diesels. I have also found the issue to be totally non-existent in some diesels and electrics. The new MTH Railking Genesis and Premier AEM7 both do not have smoke and do not have this issue. However the MTH 44 ton switcher has this issue but certainly NOT as bad as steam engines. I have one 44 toner and another on order and the issue is acceptable - again, it isn't that bad compared to the steam engines.

I had PS3 steam engines with this issue derailing trains, shredding traction tires, etc. When I had gears start skipping teeth, that is what I gave the "all stop" on MTH steam. Totally unacceptable.

It was suggested that you don't use the direction button and only the throttle to control the stops. Not really possible as it will "lock up" if you are not careful regardless of using the throttle or direction button.

SJC posted:

I do not run smoke in diesels so the issue isn't much of an issue with me in regards to diesels. I have also found the issue to be totally non-existent in some diesels and electrics. The new MTH Railking Genesis and Premier AEM7 both do not have smoke and do not have this issue. However the MTH 44 ton switcher has this issue but certainly NOT as bad as steam engines. I have one 44 toner and another on order and the issue is acceptable - again, it isn't that bad compared to the steam engines.

My major problem with the MTH 44-Ton locomotive is the issue of it stalling on even the smallest power interruption, it obviously doesn't have a large enough supercap to handle anything but a very brief power interrupt.  I have one, but I won't buy any more of them.

I commend the poster for posting his engine item number.    By giving this information it makes life easy for someone who can help you.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

SJC posted:

I do not run smoke in diesels so the issue isn't much of an issue with me in regards to diesels. I have also found the issue to be totally non-existent in some diesels and electrics. The new MTH Railking Genesis and Premier AEM7 both do not have smoke and do not have this issue. However the MTH 44 ton switcher has this issue but certainly NOT as bad as steam engines. I have one 44 toner and another on order and the issue is acceptable - again, it isn't that bad compared to the steam engines.

My major problem with the MTH 44-Ton locomotive is the issue of it stalling on even the smallest power interruption, it obviously doesn't have a large enough supercap to handle anything but a very brief power interrupt.  I have one, but I won't buy any more of them.

Hmm, John, I haven’t had any stalling problem with my MTH 44-tonner either at home (O-27 curves with Lionel 80-watt transformer) or at the club (large layouts powered by either Lionel ZW-Ls or MTH Z-4000s). I’ll have to take another look.

To SJC’s point, it can by mildly abrupt when I change direction at home, but since it is geared so low and has no smoke unit, it isn’t a problem like other PS3 units running in conventional.

Sad to see MTH’s response to the abruptness. I cringe when I see the comment “everybody runs DCS.” Not true. A lot of guys in my club and others I know run conventionally, as I do at home. (I run in command at the club.)

Jim,

Sad to see MTH’s response to the abruptness. I cringe when I see the comment “everybody runs DCS.”

As an FYI, that comment is alleged and I have not been able to verify it.

I discussed this with MTH directly, in-person at York and know, for a fact, that they are looking into the issue.

As I posted to SJC, on a previous thread, when I have anything definitive that I can share, I will share it.

I suspect even if they weren't looking at it, they wouldn't be likely to say something quite like that.  

The electronics is vastly different, I'm wondering if the motor drivers are ending up causing dynamic braking of the motor when power is removed to reverse.  That would explain the sudden stop.

SJC posted:

AVR conductor posted:

Hi guys, 

Yesterday I picked up an MTH Railking Imperial diesel, the NS SD70ACE 911 at a show. The guy said it had very little run time just to test everything. I got it home, and took it out of the box. The cellophane wrap, warranty card, and literature was not in the box. That's not a big deal. I just printed the operating guide off of the website. 

Anyway I run everything conventional, with a Z-1000. I did the bell/horn combination to access the PFA and only got 2 quick horn blasts. I pressed the direction button to engage the PFA and got nothing. Pressing it again cause the engine to reverse and It would normally. I was able to access the sounds but it took some coaxing.

Also when stopping the engine using the direction button it stops on a dime, but causes a buff type derailment and when starting out forward and the same voltage the thing wants to take off almost stringlining the train  I'm sure my O31 curves have something to do with this. this is my first PS3 engine is everything I described normal? 

Or Did I get burned on this deal? Please let me know. Thanks

Can't comment on your PFA issue - it may just be your timing of button presses. Sometimes it takes a little getting used to.

 

I CAN comment on your stopping issue. This is a WELL KNOWN issue with NEW PS3 engines. This ONLY occurs with steam engines and diesels. Diesels only exhibit the issue with the smoke ON, not off. I have been VERY vocal about this.

I emailed an MTH VP about this and was told "we know about it but since everyone runs DCS, it is not worth our time and money to fix it". I have also directly spoken to Mike Wolf about this. His answer was that with PS3's lack of battery, this was the cause. Total BS....I've had PS3 steam and diesels since the first PS3 engines were on dealer shelves and  this issue only became apparent within the last 2 years of production. The battery has nothing to do with it.

As a result, I refuse to by MTH PS3 steam. I will, selectively, buy older PS2 units but my steam purchases are going to Lionel for LC+ and Legacy. They are making, overall, a good, well built product save some quality issues I won't go into.

I do not run smoke in diesels so the issue isn't much of an issue with me in regards to diesels. I have also found the issue to be totally non-existent in some diesels and electrics. The new MTH Railking Genesis and Premier AEM7 both do not have smoke and do not have this issue. However the MTH 44 ton switcher has this issue but certainly NOT as bad as steam engines. I have one 44 toner and another on order and the issue is acceptable - again, it isn't that bad compared to the steam engines.

I had PS3 steam engines with this issue derailing trains, shredding traction tires, etc. When I had gears start skipping teeth, that is what I gave the "all stop" on MTH steam. Totally unacceptable.

It was suggested that you don't use the direction button and only the throttle to control the stops. Not really possible as it will "lock up" if you are not careful regardless of using the throttle or direction button.

I'm sorry but there is still a small percentage that run conventional. And for the response to be that kinda make one wonder

I really hope the MTH is looking into the issue. I don't run DCS or legacy, just conventional I like it just fine. I know I'm not the only one. Gunrunner mentioned something about going into a sort of dynamic braking when the motor is reversed. That sounds interesting.  Unless I misunderstood the comment. It doesn't why the engine wants to take off from neutral in either direction