MTH ScaleTrax

With its thin-profile center rail, MTH ScaleTrax is likely the closest track out there to being the "Super O" track of this era.  Unfortunately, it's been plagued by poor availability of it's numbered turnouts (#4 and #6) for a couple of years now.  So that makes it difficult for folks to fully embrace it -- whether starting from scratch or making layout additions.  It also lacks the breadth of turnout offerings that other track systems like Ross and Atlas-O have -- the latter of which has also been plagued with availability issues for quite some time.  On the plus side, MTH ScaleTrax has a very prototypical sized railroad ties.  But I actually do prefer the heftier look of the wood ties used by Gargraves/Ross.

Ross is your best bet for turnout selection nowadays.  It's a natural for Gargraves track, and works very well with Atlas-O track too.  And the turnout selection is unmatched.... not to mention Ross turnouts are built right here in the USA and priced very competitively.  Ross has been running a great ad in printed media for months now comparing their selection and prices to Atlas-O directly.  It is amazing how pricey Atlas-0 track has become over the years -- especially for those of us who may have purchased track when Atlas-O first announced it -- whereas Ross prices have been relatively consistent over time.  Years ago folks often referred to Ross as "expensive", but their pricing nowadays has easily been eclipsed by Atlas-O... and not by an insignificant amount either.

My next layout will be a combination of Standard Gauge and O-Gauge trains, so Gargraves track will be used throughout... along with Ross turnouts as needed.

David

Supposedly, ScaleTrax is going to be available soon in most pieces. Mike Wolf has indicated that they are not producing any new switches according to someone posting from this recent York meet if I'm remembering correctly. Dave & Ted Hikel have had good success in scratchbuilding some large curved switches using Ross templates and frog components.

We had a nice Scaletrax layout for several years and we were perfectly happy with using just #6s a #4, and 072 switches. To me the appearance of the track far outweighed any 'limitations' in switch selection. Ross switches can be used with the track and the Scaletrax flex is very easy to use. 

As mentioned by David above, the thin center blade almost disappears from most viewing angles and the rails themselves are much more 'in scale' with our locomotives and makes them appear more massive that the vastly oversized rails of others... 

I don't think the APPEARANCE of ScaleTrax can be beat; certainly it could be enhanced with wooden ties of the same height, and a variety of switches, crossings, etc.  IF Ross was solid rail vs. tubular, that and Gargraves, with the ties planed down, and if nickle silver or otherwise rust resistant, would be the gold cup winner.  As for building your own switches......as in HO, or On3, I might as well be in On3.

After looking at all the track systems available, I wanted solid nickel silver rails. That narrowed it down to Atlas and Scaletrax. Many say that Scaletrax looks the best of all track available, but it has a pretty limited selection of switches and curved sections. Atlas has a much better selection of switches and curved sections in their track line so I went with Atlas. They had everything I needed and wanted and I actually prefer the look of Atlas track.

One of the major O gauge train stores in the East (also a forum sponsor) posted here yesterday that they now have Atlas track and switches back in stock again. Scaletrax has been scarce for a while as well. I do not know the status of Scaletrax as to if it is (or when it will be) available.

Personally, I think all the track systems today are good ones and they all have some good pros and cons, but nothing is perfect. It can all be made to work with a little fine tuning and adjustment, some of these things may be easier than others with the different systems. I would say you should get what you like, and it can all be made to work reliably.

There will always be an engine or piece of rolling stock that will cause a problem with whatever track system you choose. No track system works with everything that has ever been made. There will always be something, somewhere that will have trouble and you will just have to address it if or when it happens.

There is a good book by Peter Riddle, Trackwork  for Toy Trains (or close to that title anyway). It does a pretty good job of detailing most of the track systems we have available today. As I remember, he also covers the pros and cons of each and offers tips on working with the different systems. It has been a few years since I read it, but I though it was pretty good.

I'd like to use ScaleTrax, but am concerned about availability. Also, because my space is somewhat limited I need to use the smaller curves. I'm currently planning to use Atlas O36, O45 and O54 because MTH doesn't offer those sizes. All my gear will work with O31, so I guess could use O31 and O54, but I think the O45 would look and perform better. I don't know if their FlexTrack can be bent that much.....easily. I think ScaleTrax is also a bit more expensive than Atlas, but I could be wrong. All I really know is it looks good on the layouts I've seen that use it. But then, so does Atlas on those layouts.

EDIT: I stand corrected on prices, ScaleTrax is far cheaper. Should have checked prices again, sorry.

Hi Dave. To address your concerns about Scaletrax, I think you could get the flex to go pretty tight although I don't have any on hand to try for you. Perhaps someone else will chime in here who can give you i a definitive answer.

As for price - Scaltrax is FAR cheaper than Atlas.  Both can be available on the secondary market at considerable savings too.

Hi Dave. To address your concerns about Scaletrax, I think you could get the flex to go pretty tight although I don't have any on hand to try for you. Think HO flextrack. Like the HO, it too will bounce back to straight when released making for custom transitional curves of any radii.

Perhaps someone else will chime in here who can give you a definitive answer.

As for price - Scaltrax is FAR cheaper than Atlas.  Both can be obtained from time to time on the secondary market at considerable savings too. Especially now that Atlas is hitting the shelves, expect to see more 'used' track come available at better prices. When Scaletrax arrives, the same scenario will occur...

c.sam posted:

Hi Dave. To address your concerns about Scaletrax, I think you could get the flex to go pretty tight although I don't have any on hand to try for you. Perhaps someone else will chime in here who can give you i a definitive answer.

As for price - Scaltrax is FAR cheaper than Atlas.  Both can be available on the secondary market at considerable savings too.

Thanks. Guess I need to check prices. I could have sworn I checked prices a year or so ago, but maybe I'm thinking some other track. At $14 for a 30" flex, it is a lot cheaper than Atlas and might sway me to using it even if I have to go with O31 curves in places. I've heard the flex is pretty easy to bend, but I'd want to see one before I decide. I think Russell is using ScaleTrax, maybe he'll know how easy it is to bend to O42-O45 sizes.

DoubleDAZ posted:

I'd like to use ScaleTrax, but am concerned about availability. Also, because my space is somewhat limited I need to use the smaller curves. I'm currently planning to use Atlas O36, O45 and O54 because MTH doesn't offer those sizes. All my gear will work with O31, so I guess could use O31 and O54, but I think the O45 would look and perform better. I don't know if their FlexTrack can be bent that much.....easily. I think ScaleTrax is also a bit more expensive than Atlas, but I could be wrong. All I really know is it looks good on the layouts I've seen that use it. But then, so does Atlas on those layouts.

Dave and Ted Hikel have posted some good info about Scaletrax here on the forum. I don't remember where, but you might try a search for 'Scaletrax Hikel' or search by member name (Dave Hikel or Ted Hikel) for Scaletrax. That's the only track my LHS does not carry, why I don't know as they have everything else? I have only seen one Scaletrax switch and that was just recently in one of the new MTH gondola cars with switch load. I couldn't examine it as it was still new and in the box at my LHS.

As c.sam says, Scaletrax is cheaper than Atlas. At least it was a few years ago, unless they have had a price increase like everyone else. The nickel silver rail could have gone up along with ? I went with Atlas because I actually liked the looks of it better and it came in a lot more curves and they have a lot more switches available. My LHS also has it in stock. I have never used flex track of any kind, but you might be better off with the switch selection Atlas has. Might come in handy to make it all fit together just right? Also I don't know if there is a way to join the Scaletrax? I believe I have read something about that being a problem? Atlas is very easy to join and connect track power to. See Ingeniero No1's layout build thread for a nifty way to connect power wire to Atlas track. That's how I did all mine and it works great. It's on the second page about half way down. He used Atlas track and there are some other good tips in his layout build thread about using it. Some of these things may possibly work with Scaletrax as well?

Atlas track is finally back now and shipping to dealers. Fortunately I got mine before the shortage. I did have to buy a few used switches, which I would not have if I could have gotten new ones. I had to do a lot of work on most of the used switches I got. I was able to get switch machines, and a few needed pieces of sectional track from my LHS all during the shortage. Switches were completely not available and they could not get those.

Thanks RTR12. Russell has said many times that it's easy to connect ScaleTrax to Ross switches, just needs a thin sheet to raise the track a tad. That's what he's using on his layout and where I first got the idea. Unfortunately, he hasn't posted since Oct or logged on since early Nov, so I don't know what's up with his progress. I nixed ScaleTrax though because of the limited curve sizes when my space got whittled down from 10x21 to 10x12. Losing those 9' meant no around-the-room layout and tighter curves. I honestly don't have anything against O31 curves, other than the extra care needed to make sure there's enough clearance to compensate for the overhang.  My current design uses O72 switches to minimize problems anyway and the train runs fine on RealTrax O31, I just don't care for track with plastic roadbed.

I've seen Ingeniero's method for connecting track power and don't see why it wouldn't work for just about any track, I'd prefer no soldering. I also have the Black Diamond Railway series of videos where ScaleTrax is used throughout, so I know what's possible. It's been quite a long time since I've watched the videos, but I think there's something in there about using FlexTrack. I have some experience with HO flextrack and I've been told ScaleTrax is just as flexible. There's also an LHS in Burbank CA (Train Shack Inc) I've visited that has a ScaleTrax layout in the shop and it's quite large for an LHS display layout. Interestingly enough, they don't currently sell ScaleTrax, at least not online. If interested, you can see their layout by googling images for "the train shack in Burbank".

As you can see, I'm still on the fence and probably will be until I'm ready to lay my first track. I'm still fooling with the design and still open to suggestions, though there doesn't seem to be much interest in my thread.

I think someone did try Ingeniero No1's wire attachment method on some type of tubular track with poor results, maybe it was too thin to drill or hold the screw? I don't remember what was wrong, who it was or whether it was Lionel, Gargraves or other track, but it wasn't solid rail, nickel silver track. Anyway, they ended up using a different method of attachment. I like Fastrack, but it was way too loud for me, that's how I ended up with Atlas.

I will have to look at the Train Shack's layout. I don't have the Black Diamond videos, but the Hikel brothers have posted pictures (maybe videos, don't recall for sure there?) of Scaletrax layouts. They worked on a huge computer controlled one, really neat layout and controls. I think it was Dave that once posted a list of things to do to Scaletrax switches before installing for better operation when some folks were having trouble with the switches one time. I think all track and switches have their own quirks, and nothing is perfect and nothing works with everything ever made. There will be a problem with something somewhere if you are at it long enough. 

I think layout threads are kind of hit and miss. I am surprised Moonman hasn't been back to your thread (unless I missed something there?), he offers good suggestions to layout threads fairly frequently. I am still pretty green about most track plans, I have formed some opinions on bench work and track, but the plans are a different story. I am still pretty much lost there as far as what will be good and what won't.

I asked about changing my layout one time a while back and not sure I even got a reply. I wonder if it isn't sometimes timing of the post as much as anything? Since you mentioned it, I haven't seen a post from Russell in quite a while? Maybe I have just missed his posts? I miss some, but try to read as much as I can around here. I still have a lot to learn. I especially like the electronics threads, so I try to follow most of them, all I can anyway.

I checked Russell's profile and it says he hasn't been on since 11/6 and his last post was sometime in Oct.

As far as Carl goes, the layout hasn't really changed much since he last checked. I think you're right about timing, etc., plus I tend to turn folks off because I'm more interested in just watching trains run than actual "railroading". My designs tend toward spaghetti, though I tried to avoid much of that with the last one. I can put together the track plan, but I have a very hard time working in scenic elements that make sense, especially given my 10x12 space and what I envision. The design process is just to get something down to look at and try to emulate with real track. That's why I'm taking a staged approach to building it. Once the horseshoe from Mianne is up and covered with plywood, I'll lay some temporary track to experiment with and see how things look. First though I have to decide which track to use, so this thread is very timely for me. Atlas has what I need and I like it, but I really like the look of ScaleTrax. Like others have said, it's got a smaller profile and makes the trains seem to stand out more. The layout I'm most familiar with over in Scotsdale is 1250 sf, so it's easy to get caught up on how nice it looks and sounds. Noise is one of the main reasons for Atlas, but being solid NS rail too, I suspect ScaleTrax is also quiet.

I have just completed building a 21x12 Scaletrax layout with 072 minimum curves. It is a 2 mainline system incorporating 4 blocks per line. Grades are roughly 3.5%. I have installed 16 turnouts. Curves are minimum 072, and I have about 300' of track laid. I incorporated 30 inch flex track in more areas than I wish to recall. I did all of this with absolutely no fore knowledge of what a model train layout was. It was learn as you go, read a lot, ask questions, and never give up. If I needed to start again, I would NOT use Scaletrax. It's thin, and bends easily causing the rail joints to be uneven, which eats up your traction tires. I spent tons of time shimming the joints to level them, and spent a fortune on track screws. Soldering nickel silver is tricky, but I put feeders every 10 feet anyway. The only way to flex the 30 inch track is to remove the rails from the ties, pre-bend them and then reinstall back into the ties. Then use a cut-off wheel to remove the extra length of rail. I learned some new language doing this and would be p***ed off for days. Next layout (?) will be snap together track. Doesn't look prototypical but saves your sanity. Question: do you want to run trains or bend and solder metal?

Best of luck to you!

About 6 yrs ago  I built a 24 x 24 layout using all atlas switches & track. Atlas flex is not easy to work with. I was very satisfied for about 1.5 yrs, then problems began with nearly every switch engine. Atlas was very good about sending me new engines, for about a year. I got tired of constantly replacing them.  I replaced several of the switches with Scaletrax and have had no problems. I plan to completely remodel the layout in 3 yrs using all Scaletrax 

For what its's worth, that's my story

Dave,

I'm building a small room-size layout (9 x 13) using Scaletrax. I really like the look of the track, so I've been willing to go slow and find the pieces I need. The difficulty of finding #4 RH switches set me back about nine months, but they're now installed. With my limited space, I've had to go with two O42 curves--everything else is O54 or O72. Since Scaletrax doesn't make O42 curves, I used flex sections for those. It takes some work and patience, but the flex track can be curved to the tighter O42 dimension. I connected the track with Right of Way rail joiners, which I've been happy with. They are also a bit of work to install, but I felt the end result was worth it. There may still be descriptions of how to install these joiners on this Forum. Dave Hikel is the acknowledged expert and he helped explain the process to me when I had questions. I've included a couple of pictures showing the O42 curves.

Tony

Tony, those curves look really nice. How much trouble were they to make? I've been told that ScaleTrax is as flexible as HO flextrack, way more flexible than Atlas.

I was able to zoom the photo to see the Right Of Way rail joiners too, nice job. Did you use those everywhere or just for the flextrack on the O42 curves?

My original idea was just to use flextrack to add some sweeping curves and to connect straight sections where the track follows the inside perimeter of the horseshoe benchwork. This design uses Atlas O45 around the inside center, but I might be able to make it O54 by using flextrack coming out of the loops leading to the center curve. Right now it's sectional straights and sectional O45 curves along the sides. I am leaning toward changing the end loops to O31 to give me more space for buildings. There is an inside over/under using O36 that I'd also change to O31. Even if I change to O31, I'd still want to use flextrack to connect the loops to the center.

RRnewbie posted:

I have just completed building a 21x12 Scaletrax layout with 072 minimum curves.  The only way to flex the 30 inch track is to remove the rails from the ties, pre-bend them and then reinstall back into the ties. Then use a cut-off wheel to remove the extra length of rail.  Question: do you want to run trains or bend and solder metal?

Best of luck to you!

You had to remove the rails and pre-bend them????    

Are you sure you were using the flex track?   The flex has no connectors on the ends and flexes quite easily - exactly like HO track. No one has ever had to pre-bend HO either that I'm aware of...

     If you check Atlas O track pricing from some of the OGR advertisers such as Trainworld and Charles Ro, you will find that MOST of the comparable Atlas O prices are actually lower than Ross prices, regardless of what Ross' recent ads say. In those ads, Ross prices are compared with Atlas O MSRP, which are considerably higher than actual retails at the OGR advertisers mentioned above. (Would you buy a new car at MSRP?)

    Also, in the February/March issue of OGR, Atlas O has an ad indicating that "Atlas O Track Is Back," so availability is improving.

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

c.sam posted:

RRnewbie posted:

I have just completed building a 21x12 Scaletrax layout with 072 minimum curves.  The only way to flex the 30 inch track is to remove the rails from the ties, pre-bend them and then reinstall back into the ties. Then use a cut-off wheel to remove the extra length of rail.  Question: do you want to run trains or bend and solder metal?

Best of luck to you!

You had to remove the rails and pre-bend them????    

Are you sure you were using the flex track?   The flex has no connectors on the ends and flexes quite easily - exactly like HO track. No one has ever had to pre-bend HO either that I'm aware of...

Now that you mention it, I was told by someone (I think maybe Russell) that it's just about as flexible as HO flex, but I've never handled a piece to see for myself. Tony said it takes some patience and work, but I assume he meant to line up the connections, etc. Maybe he'll chime back in and clarify his comments.

As far as Atlas pricing goes, with it just becoming available now some dealers are offering little or no discount from MSRP probably hoping to capitalize on the pent-up demand.

Patience is a virtue...

C. Sam:

       At Trainworld, at least, Atlas O track is available and priced at a substantial discount from the Atlas O MSRP, bringing most items below Ross pricing. Just a few items are listed as on backorder, but the key items (straight, curved, switches) are there. They have not raised pricing at all. In fact it seems lower than it had been earlier in the year.

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

Dave,

The Scaletrax flex track bends fairly easily, but I wouldn't say it's as flexible as HO. For large curves (O72 and larger), you can normally install it without pre-bending it or using a template. Rich Battista's videos do a good job explaining how to work with Scaletrax flex on large curves. For smaller curves like my O42, I first made a semi-circle template of 1/2" hardboard. I pushed the flex track up against the template to put a little bit of curvature to all three rails. Then I dis-assembled the three rails from the tie sections. I bent each outside rail separately by holding each end of the 30" rail piece and bending it in an arch-like shape, being careful not to kink it. The rail springs back, but after several repeated light bending efforts, it starts to approach the required shape. Once the outside rails were close to the curve diameter I required, I slipped the rails back into the tie sections. The middle rail is quite thin and, when installed after the other rails, will align with the curve dictated by the outside rails without any pre-bending. With smaller-diameter curves like mine, I needed to remove certain lengths of the plastic tie sections to ensure that the end connections lined up properly to join either another flex section or a standard sectional track piece. This technique is described by Rich Battista in his videos and by Dave Hikel in OGR Run #251 August/Sept 2011. Regarding the RoW rail joiners, I used those only with the flex track. I used the standard Scaletrax sectional track connectors whenever I could and they've so far provided good electrical continuity. The sectional track has worked well overall, though some of the curved pieces, especially the O80 and O72 curve sections, don't always align precisely and require some adjustment--or a willingness to accept something less than perfection. 

If you have additional questions, I'll be glad to help.

Tony

A MTH Scaletrax #4 switch LN w/box just closed for $36 on DASH. Great price for a 'scarce' switch...

Tony.....so RRNEWBIE was right, they do have to be disassembled. Thanks for the tip about the center rail, I'd have tried to bend that too. Just thinking out loud, but I was wondering if a form couldn't be built similar to what they use to bend pipe. Clamp the end of the rail to a circle, then rotate the circle through a series of rollers that would gradually bend the rail against the circle as it rotates.

Anyway, I have the videos and I just download OGR #251, so thanks for that tip too. I'm sure I read it at some point, but it probably didn't mean anything at the time.

If you had to do it all over again, would you still use ScaleTrax? And are those Woodland Scenics riser sets? If they are, I assume they're worth the price. My O45 run is flat, but my O36 rises to do and over/under and I was thinking of using the WS riser set rather than cookie-cut the plywood base.

Additional info regarding Scaletrax: once you have disassembled the two outer rails from the ties, you can bend the rails by hand to an approximate shape. No need to be exact, or worry that the curve of the two rails don't match since once they are replaced back into the ties they will be A-OK. You will have to cut the inner rail and center rail to length once assembled. Another thought: I have yet to find a train store anywhere in Northern California that sells Scaletrax, and most stores nationwide have none or very limited supply. Think eBay.  Flex track will need to be powered since it is not electrically contiguous. Mth Lock-ons are always sold out so you will have to solder your drop feeders for power to the center and at least one outer rail. If you find a lock-on, throw it in the trash can, because they don't stay in place. I have had to remove screws several times to lift a track in order to re-attach a lock-on. I gave up and soldered wire to the rails. BTW, don't use one of those 10 watt soldering irons, they don't get hot enough or spread solder evenly. Man up and get a gun.

If I sound a little looney, I only have Scaletrax to thank.

Dave,

Regarding a form for bending the rails, I initially considered buying a special track bending tool. However, most of them that I looked into were either fairly expensive or not suited to the Scaletrax-size rail, or both. I think Dave Hikel and his team use and recommend the Llagas Creek bender. I came close to purchasing a bender made by Norm's O Scale several years ago, but production stopped before I bought one. In the end, the hand-bending technique worked fine for my needs.

Regarding RRNEWBIE's points, I agree with him to avoid the Scaletrax lockons--just solder the connections and you'll be happy. I spent most of my life in Northern California and didn't build a layout until moving to Virginia several years ago, so I have no insight re Scaletrax availability in NorCal. I've ordered all my Scaletrax items from retailers here in the Mid-Atlantic region or found needed pieces on eBay. I have never found what I needed track-wise on DASH, but per CSam, there are apparently some Scaletrax items available on occasion.

Yes, I used the Woodland Scenics risers. I had some experience with the cookie-cutter method of elevating track, but it was going to be a challenge creating the grade I needed by cutting the 1/2" hardboard base. I had never used them before, but I found the WS risers easy to work with and a perfect choice for what I wanted to do with the elevated branch line (to what will eventually be a logging camp operation).  WS makes a wide variety of O scale-size products that are easily mixed and matched to suit your project. At 2.5" wide, the risers work well with O scale track and the Midwest cork roadbed I used. I will definitely use these risers in the future.

I would still use Scaletrax again. It certainly has the drawbacks cited by others, but there's no perfect track system out there. While I really admire what can be done with handlaid track from a realism standpoint, I don't have the time or the skill to attempt that--even for a small layout like mine. What keeps me in the Scaletrax camp is the realistic rail height; the general ease of use, especially of the flex track, is also a plus in my view. As long as MTH will produce the line with #4 and #6 switches, I plan to stick with it. One of my winter projects is to install ground throws on my switches. 

Let me know if you have other questions--it's an interesting discussion.

Tony

Thanks for all of the great comments.  From this discussion as well as others on the forum, I can see why the combination of Gargraves and Ross is such a popular choice.  While MTH has a great look, between availability, selection of switches, and not so flexible flexible track, the cost factor is definitely offset. 

Tony, it is an interesting discussion and I see TXVT agrees.

I've seen the cost of benders and it's not something I'd contemplate buying for such a small, one-time project. Whether I decide to try ScaleTrax, go with O31 curves or stick with Atlas O45, I plan on using flextrack for the straight sections even if they'll be shorter than I had originally planned. If nothing else, flex will let things line up easier without straining things. I'm actually thinking about modifying my design to use O54 on one end of the horseshoe and O31 on the other, but I'm not sure there will be enough room on the O31 end. The worst that can happen if I try to bent it and can't is I simply use O31 curves. I'm wondering though if the lower profile of ScaleTrax makes such curves problematic. As I said, all my gear will be rated for O31 and trains will be fairly short, so I think I should be okay if I go that route.

This discussion inspired me to pull out my Scaltrax and compare it to my Super-O.  The rail profiles are actually very similar, both the two outer rails, and the slim center rail.

The tie size and spacing are quite different:  Scaletrax too far apart, and Super-O has the hump in the middle of each tie supporting the softer copper/alloy middle rail.

The tie spacing is a deal-breaker for me with Scaletrax.  Darn!  The unusual spring wire electrical connections in the Scaletrax ties are unusual - some have reported problems with this approach.  

I looked again at my samples of Ross track and their ties are too wide by a lot, but nice track otherwise.   So I am continuing with Fastrack and Atlas-O for now.   No vendor has the perfect track for me, it would seem.

Txvt posted:

Thanks for all of the great comments.  From this discussion as well as others on the forum, I can see why the combination of Gargraves and Ross is such a popular choice.  While MTH has a great look, between availability, selection of switches, and not so flexible flexible track, the cost factor is definitely offset. 

Believe it or not but flex track was the first pre-gauged HO track available back in the 1940's. While it could be bent within reason, it's main purpose was to make broad sweeping curves. It was still heavily used even after sectional curves appeared. The biggest drawback to flex track is that it needs to be attached to a base. In O gauge, I believe ScaleTrax is the most flexible, though I suspect Atlas and GarGraves will work just fine for most applications. ScaleTrax is thinner, so it stands to reason it is easier to bend.

Ross does have a lot of switches, but that doesn't necessarily mean all that much for the average layout. I plan on using Ross if I go with Atlas or ScaleTrax, but that's only because I heard about problems with their switches. If those have been resolved, then who knows? At one time, I had also designed a layout that relied heavily on the Ross curved switches. Those switches in particular allow folks cramped for space to add features that otherwise wouldn't be available to them. And then there are the nifty 3-way  and 4-way yard switches.

If I do opt for O31, then I'll give GarGraves another look. Right now, my minimum curves are O36. Unfortunately, I have no idea what difference that makes in real use compared to O31. My guess is not much, if any. I can only tell so much from designs in RR-Track and SCARM. RRNewbie asked if we want to run trains or spend more time with track. Well heck, if that were the case, I guess we'd all run FasTrack, though his point is well taken.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Tony, it is an interesting discussion and I see TXVT agrees.

I've seen the cost of benders and it's not something I'd contemplate buying for such a small, one-time project. Whether I decide to try ScaleTrax, go with O31 curves or stick with Atlas O45, I plan on using flextrack for the straight sections even if they'll be shorter than I had originally planned. If nothing else, flex will let things line up easier without straining things. I'm actually thinking about modifying my design to use O54 on one end of the horseshoe and O31 on the other, but I'm not sure there will be enough room on the O31 end. The worst that can happen if I try to bent it and can't is I simply use O31 curves. I'm wondering though if the lower profile of ScaleTrax makes such curves problematic. As I said, all my gear will be rated for O31 and trains will be fairly short, so I think I should be okay if I go that route.

ScaleTrax is available pre-curved to O-31 and O-54, so you don't need flex for those curves. The flex bends easier than Atlas or Gargraves and can be bent easily to O-42 or O-45. Connecting the track is actually pretty easy using needle-nosed pliers -- you lay the track flat and clip it together. Rich Battista's first video covers using ScaleTrax flex very well.

posted by DOUBLEDAZ

ScaleTrax is thinner, so it stands to reason it is easier to bend.

This is somewhat misleading as being 'thinner' has nothing to do with Scaletrax's ability to 'bend'.  It doesn't 'bend' in the traditional sense, but as its name implies, it flexes and springs back to straight when released. It literally takes no effort to flex it and is very easy to create any degree of curve you desire. Again, picture regular HO flex track and you have the idea...

RRNEWBIE above made a puzzling comment about "having to take the track apart and bend the rails". This only makes sense if he's using the regular 30" fixed straights and trying to bend them! Obviously, he hasn't handled Scaletrax flex yet!

Re: connectivity - we had a fairly large Scaletrax layout and the sectional track had NO problems with electrical connectivity. We ran feeders with 6 or 7 sections of track  on either side of the connection and a gap at both ends of each block per recommendations for STAR wiring for DCS and had no problems.

ScaleTrax is a very good track system. Had MTH built it with the ties closer together it would have been the runaway first choice for 3 rail scale...

AGHRMatt posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

Tony, it is an interesting discussion and I see TXVT agrees.

I've seen the cost of benders and it's not something I'd contemplate buying for such a small, one-time project. Whether I decide to try ScaleTrax, go with O31 curves or stick with Atlas O45, I plan on using flextrack for the straight sections even if they'll be shorter than I had originally planned. If nothing else, flex will let things line up easier without straining things. I'm actually thinking about modifying my design to use O54 on one end of the horseshoe and O31 on the other, but I'm not sure there will be enough room on the O31 end. The worst that can happen if I try to bent it and can't is I simply use O31 curves. I'm wondering though if the lower profile of ScaleTrax makes such curves problematic. As I said, all my gear will be rated for O31 and trains will be fairly short, so I think I should be okay if I go that route.

ScaleTrax is available pre-curved to O-31 and O-54, so you don't need flex for those curves. The flex bends easier than Atlas or Gargraves and can be bent easily to O-42 or O-45. Connecting the track is actually pretty easy using needle-nosed pliers -- you lay the track flat and clip it together. Rich Battista's first video covers using ScaleTrax flex very well.

Yes, I use both RR-Track and SCARM, so I see the curved sectional track that is available for ScaleTrax. We seem to have a few folks though with differing opinions on how easy it is to bend to sizes between the O31&O54 curves I'll be using if I go with ScaleTrax (which I'm leaning toward once again). Or maybe it's just different definitions of "easy".

I've reworked my layout using O31 for the front curves of Track 1 and the loops of Tracks 2&3 and I'm quite happy with the extra landscape area it gives me. I currently have a mix of O31&O54 around my lake (actually the middle of the horseshoe), but that is where I plan to use the FlexTrack to run along the perimeter once I see just how easy it is to shape and then cut the tabletop to match. If it turns out to be easier than I think, then perhaps I'll consider trying some O42/O45 sized curves. They'll only be corner curves, not full loops, so that may make it easier. And, I don't want to over-complicate things, so I may just stick with the O31 either way. 

I've been following the response to my comments regarding Scaletrax flex, and I must say I am amused at arguments lauding the ease of use with this track system. If you bend something "as easy as HO flex track, and it flexes right back into straight when released", how do you maintain and secure the curve? Do you use a nail gun? Gorilla glue? It must be set to a desired radius and that requires prebending the rails. Once accomplished, the rails will need to be cut, otherwise you will have gaps in the ties between the track sections. Take a look at the picture in any MTH catalog since 1999 and notice the rail lengths when this track is flexed. I  spent a lot of time cutting rails, in fact I have filled a gondola with the scraps. If you enjoy this aspect of the hobby, then by golly go for it with my blessing. I'm only sharing the struggles I encountered. One other comment. Since the center rail is so thin, there is minimal electrical contact with your rollers, therefore I highly recommend that you sand off the black paint. 

Best of luck to all who wish to proceed with this track.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your intention here RRNewbie. Had assumed you are laying track for a permanent layout?  Flex is made to be fastened down by any method you choose and as such, it doesn't have to be cut as much as you might imagine. Have you had the chance to view Rich Battista's excellent Black Diamond RR video No. 1?  He shows the ease with which you can create almost any curve using the flex and staggering the rail joints like the real RRs do.

Have never sanded the top of the center blade either. I routinely operated multi engines and long trains on our layout with great success. If you have any back issues of 'the other' O Gauge  magazine, check the Oct 2013 issue for some nice photos of our layout. We actually made the cover...

RRnewbie posted:

I've been following the response to my comments regarding Scaletrax flex, and I must say I am amused at arguments lauding the ease of use with this track system. If you bend something "as easy as HO flex track, and it flexes right back into straight when released", how do you maintain and secure the curve? Do you use a nail gun? Gorilla glue? It must be set to a desired radius and that requires prebending the rails. Once accomplished, the rails will need to be cut, otherwise you will have gaps in the ties between the track sections. Take a look at the picture in any MTH catalog since 1999 and notice the rail lengths when this track is flexed. I  spent a lot of time cutting rails, in fact I have filled a gondola with the scraps. If you enjoy this aspect of the hobby, then by golly go for it with my blessing. I'm only sharing the struggles I encountered. One other comment. Since the center rail is so thin, there is minimal electrical contact with your rollers, therefore I highly recommend that you sand off the black paint. 

Best of luck to all who wish to proceed with this track.

 

What flex track does not need to be cut? You make it sound like it's particular to this brand.

I installed Atlas 2 rail flex and I had to cut it too. and yes, it too returns to straight when released. You have to nail it down, to keep the radii.

If you wanted to use track that doesn't need any cuts, than go with sectional track.

I think you just struggled and felt like griping?

c.sam posted:

posted by DOUBLEDAZ

ScaleTrax is thinner, so it stands to reason it is easier to bend.

This is somewhat misleading as being 'thinner' has nothing to do with Scaletrax's ability to 'bend'.  It doesn't 'bend' in the traditional sense, but as its name implies, it flexes and springs back to straight when released. It literally takes no effort to flex it and is very easy to create any degree of curve you desire. Again, picture regular HO flex track and you have the idea...

RRNEWBIE above made a puzzling comment about "having to take the track apart and bend the rails". This only makes sense if he's using the regular 30" fixed straights and trying to bend them! Obviously, he hasn't handled Scaletrax flex yet!

Re: connectivity - we had a fairly large Scaletrax layout and the sectional track had NO problems with electrical connectivity. We ran feeders with 6 or 7 sections of track  on either side of the connection and a gap at both ends of each block per recommendations for STAR wiring for DCS and had no problems.

ScaleTrax is a very good track system. Had MTH built it with the ties closer together it would have been the runaway first choice for 3 rail scale...

But didn't Tony also say he took it apart to bend it for his O42 sized loop? At this point, I guess I'll just find out for myself. Like I said, I plan to use FlexTrack on other parts of the layout, so it'll be easy enough for me to test before I decide on O31. I'll be constructing in 2 stages anyway. Stage 1 is a simple table layout with 2 tracks; one running along the outside of a horseshoe and a folded over/under dogbone in the middle of that. Stage 2 will add another level with O31 loops, so I can just buy with that in mind. If I use the O31 on level 1, I'll just buy more when I'm ready to add level 2.

I also plan to use FlexTrack on any straight section over 20" rather than piece things together with multiple sectional tracks or cutting a rigid 30" track. Any opinions on that?

I'm not too worried about connectivity. I figure if it works for the Black Diamond, it should work for me, as long as I can get what I need when I need it.

C.SAM, ignore some of my previous post. I think there's been a misunderstanding of how to install FlexTrack as demonstrated in the Black Diamond Videos. Like you just said, it's not designed to hold it's shape and I think that's what some have been trying to do with it. As soon as I heard about ScaleTrax, I bought the Black Videos and that's why I've been so confused about how much trouble some were having. Even HO flex had to be installed by anchoring it as you went if you wanted good trouble-free track. The only thing now that will change my mind is a lack of stock when I get ready to buy.

Jim,

For some reason or another, my email isn't showing where I had responded to you earlier tonight.  Since we're both using yahoo, the problem may be on yahoo's end.

My asking price for the straight track and switches is $460.  I'm will accept $380.  You will be responsible for shipping.  I measured and played around with the fixed price boxes using the USPS webpage and the most economical way to ship may be to use four boxes versus putting everything in one box.  It looks like shipping will be around $60. 

my email address is roboydsr@yahoo.com

Thanks

Rob