Which one do you like and why?
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CHARLIE,
I do like the MTH whistle better. However it does take a little getting use to with the DCS remote with the thumbwheel. Once you master that it is a breeze. Seems the Lionel version needs a bit more steam.😉
Charlie,
Thanks for posting these comparisons. I really appreciate it because I like the quilling whistle but wasn't sure what it was. I thought maybe the steam would blow out the lower sides of the engine as the whistle wailed, like the old steam engines you see in the movies. I only recently learned that there existed quilling whistles on premium engines from both companies because I only have 2 MTH Premier steamers and they don't have this feature. That being said, I like MTH's sound and amount of steam better based on your videos. However, I have to disclose that all of my engines are MTH, so there likely is built-in biase that I can't escape.
Mike
I don’t own any of the MTH steam with smoking whistles, but from the video it looks like it works much better. I’d say they’re varying the fan motor based on the whistle level, which is cool.
@IRON HORSE posted:Thanks for posting these comparisons. I really appreciate it because I like the quilling whistle but wasn't sure what it was. I thought maybe the steam would blow out the lower sides of the engine as the whistle wailed, like the old steam engines you see in the movies. I only recently learned that there existed quilling whistles on premium engines from both companies because I only have 2 MTH Premier steamers and they don't have this feature.
For the record, the “quilling” part is just the ability to vary the intensity of the whistle sound. The smoking whistle is a separate feature. I have several MTH locomotives with the quilling feature but none that smoke.
MTH, cause it sounds better to me
I have both Lionel and MTH.
1. Both can give great smoke output. One is not better over the other.
2. Both can have quilling whistles.
3. But the MTH steps of having to hit a softkey and the use the thumbwheel does not even come close to the slider on Lionel's remote as far as really being able to control the sound and really vary it. On my Premier engines I never use it because it's just a pain. The MTH remote was not designed for it originally and it came later, and they had to use the thumbwheel because it was the only variable control on the remote. Unfortunately, the execution is not good at all.
I love both companies, but the MTH design is definitely not as good as Lionel's as far as ease of use and even the amount of quilling you can get from the whistle.
I know everyone has their camps they are in and will never admit one has an advantage over the other, but it is a simple fact.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I have both Lionel and MTH.
1. Both can give great smoke output. One is not better over the other.
2. Both can have quilling whistles.
3. But the MTH steps of having to hit a softkey and the use the thumbwheel does not even come close to the slider on Lionel's remote as far as really being able to control the sound and really vary it. On my Premier engines I never use it because it's just a pain. The MTH remote was not designed for it originally and it came later, and they had to use the thumbwheel because it was the only variable control on the remote. Unfortunately, the execution is not good at all.
I think with the MTH remote, once you hit the softkey, you can toggle between the whistle and the speed my pressing the thumbwheel.
I love both companies, but the MTH design is definitely not as good as Lionel's as far as ease of use and even the amount of quilling you can get from the whistle.
I know everyone has their camps they are in and will never admit one has an advantage over the other, but it is a simple fact.
That's like, your opinion, man.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:3. But the MTH steps of having to hit a softkey and the use the thumbwheel does not even come close to the slider on Lionel's remote as far as really being able to control the sound and really vary it. On my Premier engines I never use it because it's just a pain. The MTH remote was not designed for it originally and it came later, and they had to use the thumbwheel because it was the only variable control on the remote. Unfortunately, the execution is not good at all.
I love both companies, but the MTH design is definitely not as good as Lionel's as far as ease of use and even the amount of quilling you can get from the whistle.
Sean you didn't mention that it's much easier to quill with MTH using the app. I agree it's not as easy with the remote.
I like the deeper tone of the Lionel.
Great info on MTH app/remote versus Lionel! Makes me think I need to add the MTH app if I get a quiller. Or perhaps this is a good reason to try Lionel engines. But then the soft key toggle perhaps solves the MTH shortcoming. Like this topic because the quilling feature is totally cool on both.
@IRON HORSE posted:Great info on MTH app/remote versus Lionel! Makes me think I need to add the MTH app if I get a quiller. Or perhaps this is a good reason to try Lionel engines. But then the soft key toggle perhaps solves the MTH shortcoming. Like this topic because the quilling feature is totally cool on both.
I use a Remote with the DCS app to operate the quilling whistle and to toggle between quilling and regular mode. Skip to 5:38 to see the demonstration:
I'm going to say it again, can we get an app license upgrade for the folks stuck with a DCS Wifi explorer so they can enjoy the new steaming whistle models being produced?
Suggested DCS WIFI EXPLORER APP UPGRADE LICENSE https://ogrforum.com/...c/162475944998892873
@TrainWorld.com Can you broach this as a discussion with Mike Wolf and or @MTH RD for tomorrow night?
Again, bottom line, trains are shipping and being sold that need control systems. MTH is dropping the ball here with the WIFI TIU delays.
An opportunity exists to both sell upgrades and provide customers with a solution- so let's make it happen.
So basically Vernon, you want to make the Standard $5 upgrade available to the Explorer users to unlock all of the advanced engine features. I agree.
Maybe not run more than three engines at one time but at least be able to add more into the the app hold them in the inactive list so that folks don't have to keep reloading them.
The quilling whistle sounds are already available with the free versions of the app. Just double tap the white rope and it should turn purple if the selected engine has the feature.
And if it needs to be a more expensive (say $25- or more) specific license to the DCS Explorer, I'm OK with that.
Here's my point, they haven't produced a TIU in how long now since the last batch hit dealers? In fact, Since I joined the hobby in roughly 2018, TIUs have been through multiple periods where there is no or low stock. The WIFI TIU has been on pre-order for how long now and by my estimates already whatever is produced when/if it ever gets here is already sold. MTH wants to keep selling engines and trains, and not only that, but also now Atlas using DCS PS3 engines. In the mean time, you've got this market of used equipment going for insane prices, no factory support repair center, and yet more and more engines keep being announced and sold without a control system even for sale. This isn't just hurting MTH- this is hurting forum sponsors- mainly dealers who then have to tell the customer you can just run conventional. And then recently, I can name one or two topics where a person bought the only control system they could find and then either got a new Bigboy, a N&W 611, or now these Heavy Pacifics all advertised with whistle steam. Then they find out they cannot even use it with the probably "I paid too much" DCS Explorer they bought.
I understand the electronics shortage, but at some point, no that excuse becomes no longer acceptable.
I'm offering an idea, to make money and actually sell a product twice. You sold the DCS explorer or started people off with it in starter sets. Here's a chance to make that product suddenly a tool to sell more engines- keep happy customers and still make money in the process in the form of license. Instead of manufacturing and shipping electronics, and all that mess, we are talking a software update and license that within reason, you set the price to cover your costs.
Besides that, there is supposedly an app update anyway in Beta for the new WIFI TIU.
I'm not saying software development is not costly or time consuming, it most definitely is. But if you can't make the hardware, you can make the software, please make something- one, the other, or both.
@Vernon Barry You should get on the TrainWorld live event tomorrow with Mike Wolf and pass along your ideas.
Came to mind that I wonder if Lionel is going to be able to deliver their Base3 on time later this year? I know there are folks that have been trying to locate Legacy for a long time that would like to take full advantage of those engines too.
Lionel works good.
I'll let you know how the Mth whistle works, when I get my L1s Mikado next March or so. 
Are we all talking about the same thing? I'm referring to the topic title, SMOKING, quilling whistle? Not just the quilling but smoking/quilling whistle. That's only available on some premier engines. The DCS remote has the quilling whistle for all steamers just by holding down the whistle button, right?
@IRON HORSE posted:Are we all talking about the same thing? I'm referring to the topic title, SMOKING, quilling whistle? Not just the quilling but smoking/quilling whistle. That's only available on some premier engines. The DCS remote has the quilling whistle for all steamers just by holding down the whistle button, right?
Nope, pressing the button is not quilling. Yes, you can get different attacks and sounds holding it longer or shorter, but it's not the same as actual quilling.
Well, this is one of those very interesting things that offer tons of opinions. I don't have any MTH engines as I don't run DCS. That said though, Eric of Eric's trains did offer an interesting opinion on Lionel whistle steam vs. Lionel whistle steam. Out of a few of his engines at the time that had it, he said that one(which I don't remember, think it was a Mallet) had a better effect overall in comparison to any of his other engines that had it. Part of it was just how the smoke popped out and hit the actual whistle piece on top of the engine.
To continue with Eric's opinion, he said that the Lionel remote was easier to quill the whistle than the MTH remote. This was before all the Bluetooth and apps that have come out which I am sure may make things easier to use and more competitive to compare these things.
Honestly, I think that this would be an engine to engine basis. If you were able to have the same engine against its counterpart, that would be the true test, or would it? This is going to be a topic much like "Best Smoke Fluid". Another thing, did they get the right whistle into the engine? We've had that happen before. I enjoy hearing Lionel's sounds overall vs. MTH's. The chuffing of some MTH engines seems to me(at least a portion of what I usually hear probably Proto 2) sounds like the same sounds over and over again. Lionel has(had) better sounds overall, is that still true?
There is one glaring issue I have with the MTH whistle: the smoke goes forward! The steam never jets forward or sideways on a real steam whistle; it goes up.
With these 2 particular models, I think the MTH model has the nicer whistle sound however whistle recordings vary significantly between different models so its really a moot point.
Further take and experience on this. The last 2 years, I really built out my collection. I have 8 Visionline steam engines, anther 5 Legacy engines with whistle steam. I have less MTH with whistle steam because to my knowledge few engines had it so my first was a UP challenger, then the Bigboy, 611 J-class, and coming this week 2 of the Heavy Pacifics with whistle steam.
Hands down, MTH makes a better smoke unit, both the normal main units and the smaller size often used for whistle steam and smoking tank cars as well as smaller engines. I say this, because from a maintenance, running, repair, and just plain operation, they smoke better, are much better on wicks not charing, smoke like crazy, and while I've replaced some MTH fan motors on older engines, nowhere near the number of failures. I've never seen an MTH impeller melt ever even in the most cooked unit.
Conversely, I had to buy Lionel fan motors in quantity, impellers I keep in my parts box, a few engines Ive replaced melted smoke funnels. All this to say, Lionel has temperature sensing thermistors and yet they melt impellers, cook wicks and so on. How is it MTH can get a PWM value right and just go with it, no sensors, and Lionel adds sensors and it just makes it worse? Again, I'm in awe that Lionel, as far as I'm concerned cannot build a smoke unit that will last in these recent engines. It might work if the firmware was right but since that requires Lionel to fix- again, another strike against the Lionel side of the house. Again, sorry for being angry bu I have the raw numbers to back it up and have paid dearly for that "privilege" to experience it first hand.
On the control side, yes, Lionel wins by a wide margin because whistle steam just works without special commands or settings. MTH feels like an after thought, i was added later in the game to compete with Lionel. So the MTH feature won't work in conventional, it must be under DCS, and then it has to be turned on specifically and the lower tiers of DCS don't allow that (example DCS wifi explorer, the IR commander).
Another spect of this, I happened to get an MTH HO PS3 NKP Berkshire with whistle steam and it works differently than the larger PS3 O gauge engines. How is it the MTH can enable whistle steam by default on the HO version, but then not on the larger O scale?
My bottom line, I buy an MTH with whistle steam because it's better hardware at a better price and compromise with the control system because it does work, it's just not perfect. Also, to my knowledge, MTH PS2 and PS3 has been only one speaker in engines to this point.
I buy a Lionel typically because of the 3 speaker sound system in some large steam engines, and whistle steam that is easier to control, and then I end up being angry and buying parts and lot of repairs because the smoke unit design and firmware work together to have failures. Not to mention, I pay several hundred dollars more for the privilege.
So yeah, both companies have plenty of room to improve.
